White smoke and dead batteries

[purple8]

2 minutes ago, WotEver said:

The rain is supposed to ease but it's going to stay blustery for a few days according to tonight's forecast. 

should blow us nicely to the bank then to moor up if we have engine failures... Silver lining

[WotEver]

... and then the rain returns tomorrow night and stays with us as showers until Sat night

[OldGoat]

4 hours ago, Mike the Boilerman said:

Ok I visited Purple8's boat for a quick look earlier. ......

 ..............

Exhaust is wet by the way. 

That's about it really!

Wet exhausts are rare on the canals (so it's nice to know I'm not the only one...)

Both my Beta engines always emitted 'white fumes' Ted Spash and others insisted that it always happens (with a Beta) so I gave up worrying, that was 17 years ago...

If it was smoke, then I'd expect it to hang around in the air for a while. As it is, it disappears quickly and merges with the huge jet of 'fresh' water from the river. When you realise that there's a lot of hot gas from the exhaust mingling with the hot fresh water from the heat exchanger, then I assume that some of the water forms a mist inside the rubber pipe and goes overboard without condensing. I say that because the exhaust stream by that time is only tepid.

Well, it convinces me - as I can't think of a better explanation. My first engine did 13 years and 5,000 hours before it threw off its pulleys in a fit of pique. The current one only 900 hours. Neither overheated - in fact don't really get hot.

So I suggest that the white smoke - if it exhibits the same view as above - then there's nothing to worry about on that score. 

 

Edited June 6, 2017 by OldGoat

[purple8]

what a morning!

engine started first time, and ran like a dream for first 20mins, then we had some white smoke and the exhaust left a lovely black soot on the water, we pulled over and did the injector test and every injector had its effect on the running of the engine so guess that could be ticked off the list, we then slowly cruised into our second lock of the day and she cslmed down, smoke subsided and she was fine... We continued another half hour with no issues until she smoked upon going astern in the final lock and carried on smoking then until we moored just above the lock.

put her in idle for a few minutes then off.

a strange smell began emanating from the engine, I had my head down there and could hear bubbling?! Thought wtf! Then noticed a smoking bubbling leisure battery! Wow! They stink! Sulphury eggs!

disconnected it straight away and leaving it to cool while we have lunch. Will multimeter test batteries when running to see if alternator regulator problem or just crap old battery. Think its the later tbh

more updates to come in this exciting edition of "will we make it"

[Tony Brooks]

If that battery has a good internal short it might make the alternator grunt a bit and black smoke is a symptom of an engine overloading. Try it again with that battery disconnected.

Are you sure there is plenty of vent area allowing air into the engine bay? A lack of  air for the engine can also cause black smoke as can a clogged air cleaner try running with the air cleaner off the engine.

[purple8]

so we have made it to the top of Crofton locks. Went ok, smoke... But nothing crazy like before...

was a problem with a single battery, not the alt as it was giving a read of 14v when running. Tbh all the domestic batteries are old and will be next on the agenda to be updated.

there is still an issue, as it still smokes and the exhaust still goes from purrr to fart... I will try without air cleaner tomorro and also maybe go with a floor board up for extra venting and see how that goes.

thanks tony, only got the message after the journey so must wait now till tomorro.

[GUMPY]

When the sound of my indirect cooling changes its a sure sign that the water filter is blocked.

worth checking......

[Naughty Cal]

16 minutes ago, Loddon said:

When the sound of my indirect cooling changes its a sure sign that the water filter is blocked.

worth checking......

Same here.

I wonder if the smoke is actually steam when the engine isn't getting enough water to cool it?

Whenever we get a blockage we can hear the exhaust note change well before the engine temperature rises. A quick blast in reverse is more often than not enough to remove the obstruction to water flow and off we go again.

[purple8]

before I go do anything silly and flood the engine bay and sink the boat... This is where the boat draws its raw water and this leads to the impeller. If I turn the red cock (assume its the sea cock) and remove the top, this is where I can find the strainer or any blockage in this system?

[Alan de Enfield]

The filter would 'normally' be in 'the line' between the seacock and the engine - various makes & designs but it should look similar to this, with a 'hose going in' and a 'hose coming out'

 

 

[rusty69]

13 minutes ago, purple8 said:

before I go do anything silly and flood the engine bay and sink the boat... This is where the boat draws its raw water and this leads to the impeller. If I turn the red cock (assume its the sea cock) and remove the top, this is where I can find the strainer or any blockage in this system?

We  have a similar looking setup on our sailing boat,containing a course mesh filter. 

[purple8]

hmmmm...

nothing like that here.

the fitting I photographed is connected straight to the raw water impeller on the engine

[Alan de Enfield]

5 minutes ago, purple8 said:

hmmmm...

nothing like that here.

the fitting I photographed is connected straight to the raw water impeller on the engine

My boats both have 'similar' to yours with the hull-fitting, seacock and then 'upstand' - the difference is that on mine, part way along the hose there are inline filters (as per picture)

The outlet of the filter goes to the inlet of the Raw Water pump (impellor)

Edited June 8, 2017 by Alan de Enfield

[purple8]

5 minutes ago, rusty69 said:

We  have a similar looking setup on our sailing boat,containing a course mesh filter. 

nice... Opened and it was filthy!!! Something to keep an eye on there!

[rusty69]

1 minute ago, purple8 said:

nice... Opened and it was filthy!!! Something to keep an eye on there!

Yes, not good. If you are on a canal or river it will require regular checking if you don't want overheating problems

[purple8]

could this have been my problem all along?! Hope so as that turned out to be a very simple thing!

[rusty69]

3 minutes ago, purple8 said:

could this have been my problem all along?! Hope so as that turned out to be a very simple thing!

Guess you'll find out soon. Impellars also need checking and well worth carrying a spare. 

[bizzard]

2 minutes ago, rusty69 said:

Guess you'll find out soon. Impellars also need checking and well worth carrying a spare. 

indeed!

[Alan de Enfield]

6 minutes ago, rusty69 said:

Guess you'll find out soon. Impellars also need checking and well worth carrying a spare. 

And for the sake of a 'couple of pounds' replace them annually anyway.

 

When you check / replace it, once the cover plate is 'off' take a picture to show which way the rubber 'vanes' are bent. It will assist in re-assembly.

If you put the impellor back in with the vanes reversed they will 'rip themselves off' trying to turn the correct way, so better to do it the right way.

Edited June 8, 2017 by Alan de Enfield

[rusty69]

1 minute ago, Alan de Enfield said:

And for the sake of a 'couple of pounds' replace them annually anyway.

I suppose it depends how much use the engine gets, some of these impellars are a bit more than a couple of quid, but yes if budget allows. 

5 minutes ago, Alan de Enfield said:

And for the sake of a 'couple of pounds' replace them annually anyway.

 

When you check / replace it, once the cover plate is 'off' take a picture to show which way the rubber 'vanes' are bent. It will assist in re-assembly.

If you put the impellor back in with the vanes reversed they will 'rip themselves off' trying to turn the correct way, so better to do it the right way.

To add to this, also check for wear on the cover plate and fillet in the pump body. Sometimes these can wear to such an extent that poor pumping results 

 

[Alan de Enfield]

1 minute ago, rusty69 said:

I suppose it depends how much use the engine gets, some of these impellars are a bit more than a couple of quid, but yes if budget allows. 

The 'worse' thing is no, or low, engine use as the rubber vane tips weld themselves to the inside of the housing as it dries out. An engine in regular use will have water in the pump and will lubricate the vane tips - yes - there will be some frictional losses with a high use engine, but not as bad as 'dry-running'.

 

Forget Chandlers - ebay specialists for your Impellors, filters etc.

[bizzard]

If the boats laid up for any length of time, during the winter for example its best to remove the impeller and store it.

[cereal tiller]

6 minutes ago, rusty69 said:

I suppose it depends how much use the engine gets, some of these impellars are a bit more than a couple of quid, but yes if budget allows. 

To add to this, also check for wear on the cover plate and fillet in the pump body. Sometimes these can wear to such an extent that poor pumping results 

 

And don't forget the Lipseal(s) on the Pump Shaft they can suck in air which will have a serious effect on Water flow rate

[Alan de Enfield]

Being a 'bit of a prepper' I actually carry a complete raw water pump as a spare - it is far easier to swap over the complete unit than it is to hang upside down trying to unscrew  several face-plate screws, jiggle out the old impellor, check everything, and re-assemble.

 

'Maintenance' work can then be done 'on the table' in the comfort of being 'the right way up' and that unit then kept as a spare.

 

Pic showing how the vanes get squashed to provide the pumping action - not a lot of room for them to turn around if you put them in the 'wrong way'

 

 

[rusty69]

Just now, Alan de Enfield said:

Being a 'bit of a prepper' I actually carry a complete raw water pump as a spare - it is far easier to swap over the complete unit than it is to hang upside down trying to unscrew  several face-plate screws, jiggle out the old impellor, check everything, and re-assemble

Same here. Picked up a spare from ebay.