Here We Go Again!! ..but only the DON'T DOs!

[rusty69]

11 minutes ago, Mike the Boilerman said:

 

Hmmm I'm fairly sure my dad (who was a toolmaker originally) used to use it to mean 1,000th of an inch. 

I've also heard it used as an abbreviation for 'million', but never millimeter by anyone who knows their stuff, as they know the term was reserved long ago in imperial days.

1000th of an inch is normally reffered to as a thou

[dmr]

2 hours ago, Neil2 said:

I'll have a go...

- Don't buy a boat that has been very recently repainted.  (Conversely a dozen half empty tins of boat paint on board is a definite tick.)

- Don't buy a boat with a few inches of water in the engine bilge ("oh it's impossible to keep them dry..") or a filthy engine bay.  

- Don't buy a boat without looking in the cabin bilge, you'd be surprised how many boats have no access.

- Don't buy a boat that has an inoperative horn - often more trouble to fix than you would think and evidence of neglect.

- Don't buy a boat that has weeds growing out of the bow/stern fenders.

- Don't buy any boat described as "much loved" or "full of character" or worst of all "first to see will buy".

- Don't buy a boat to live on that hasn't been used to live on.

- Don't buy a boat with a name that has letters deliberately omitted eg  "Livin' the Dream" or "Jus Chillin'"

Feel free to neglect any or all of the above if it's love at first sight.  

 

We have spent the last two years trying hard to cultivate a little garden on the back fender. Currently only a dandelion but we are seriously thinking about getting some succulents.

As for letters missing from a (silly) name, I assume the logic is that if someone skimps on letters to save a few bob they will also skimp on engine oil etc?

..............Dave

[cuthound]

I don't recall using an imperial measurement called "mil", only "thou" (1/1000 of an inch).

According to Wikipedia "mil" is the American term for "thou", being derived from the Latin "mille" for thousand.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thousandth_of_an_inch

Confusingly, it is also used to describe millimetres.

Edited May 4, 2017 by cuthound
To add the last sentance.

[X Alan W]

3 hours ago, Alan de Enfield said:

But 'Mil' is an imperial unit of measurement - non of that johnny-foreigner stuff.

But in almost all cases now metric is the measurements kit comes in MM's CM's or metres Mllilitres, Centilitres, or litres, when you pull up at the pump to refuel it's litres now not gallons Although I'm old enough to remember Imperial measurement & when the currency was pounds shillings & pence & as an aside the cut was for boats not every other pastime/sport other than boating

[Neil2]

44 minutes ago, dmr said:

We have spent the last two years trying hard to cultivate a little garden on the back fender. Currently only a dandelion but we are seriously thinking about getting some succulents.

As for letters missing from a (silly) name, I assume the logic is that if someone skimps on letters to save a few bob they will also skimp on engine oil etc?

..............Dave

I've seen a couple of boats recently that have vegetation growing in the side fenders, now that takes some doing.

The missing letters thing is just my personal prejudice I've got quite a collection now.  It's the same with pun names I could forgive almost any shortcoming but I would never buy a boat called narrow escape or meander.  Mind you there's a boat moored on the Dee link at Chester called "Pist n' Broke" which is wrong on so many levels it's almost heroic.

 

 

[cereal tiller]

37 minutes ago, cuthound said:

I don't recall using an imperial measurement called "mil", only "thou" (1/1000 of an inch).

According to Wikipedia "mil" is the American term for "thou", being derived from the Latin "mille" for thousand.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thousandth_of_an_inch

Confusingly, it is also used to describe millimetres.

When something  requires a miniscule adjustment I always refer to it as needing just a MilliGnats.

Just now, Neil2 said:

I've seen a couple of boats recently that have vegetation growing in the side fenders, now that takes some doing.

The missing letters thing is just my personal prejudice I've got quite a collection now.  It's the same with pun names I could forgive almost any shortcoming but I would never buy a boat called narrow escape or meander.  Mind you there's a boat moored on the Dee link at Chester called "Pist n' Broke" which is wrong on so many levels it's almost heroic.

 

 

Have seen more than one Boat named 'Pistol Knight"

[dmr]

34 minutes ago, Neil2 said:

I've seen a couple of boats recently that have vegetation growing in the side fenders, now that takes some doing.

The missing letters thing is just my personal prejudice I've got quite a collection now.  It's the same with pun names I could forgive almost any shortcoming but I would never buy a boat called narrow escape or meander.  Mind you there's a boat moored on the Dee link at Chester called "Pist n' Broke" which is wrong on so many levels it's almost heroic.

 

 

I personally don't like joke names and puns, a few are funny but only for a very short time and certainly not for the lifetime of the boat. Pist n broke really is missing what is a quite clever (but very old) joke. There is a boat on the L&L and its a proper trad job with sheeted cratch and all the right stuff but that has a joke name which I always find very surprising (best not mention the name here).

We acquired a boat with an unusual (a few say pretentious) name (Vox Stellarum) and we sometimes watch a puzzled expression on the faces of other boaters and I am sure they are trying to work out the pun. We do have a light hearted plan to change our names by deed poll to Vauxhall and Stella.

Dave

[rusty69]

40 minutes ago, dmr said:

personally don't like joke names and puns, a few are funny but only for a very short time and certainly not for the lifetime of the boat.

You wouldn't like ours then- Mr Rusty. But then naming narrow boats in general in my opinion is a bit unnecessary altogether, a bit like giving your car a name. 

[MtB]

45 minutes ago, dmr said:

I personally don't like joke names and puns, a few are funny but only for a very short time and certainly not for the lifetime of the boat. Pist n broke really is missing what is a quite clever (but very old) joke. There is a boat on the L&L and its a proper trad job with sheeted cratch and all the right stuff but that has a joke name which I always find very surprising (best not mention the name here).

We acquired a boat with an unusual (a few say pretentious) name (Vox Stellarum) and we sometimes watch a puzzled expression on the faces of other boaters and I am sure they are trying to work out the pun. We do have a light hearted plan to change our names by deed poll to Vauxhall and Stella.

Dave

There is a boat I've seen around a few times now called "Sloake Hunt", which I find rather distasteful.

The owner presumably finds it hysterically funny, and I sometimes imagine him drawing random people's attention to it. "Hey, did you see the name of my boat?! Do you geddit?<Nudge nudge> Do you geddit? Shall I explain it??

[Athy]

1 hour ago, Mike the Boilerman said:

There is a boat I've seen around a few times now called "Sloake Hunt", which I find rather distasteful.

The owner presumably finds it hysterically funny, and I sometimes imagine him drawing random people's attention to it. "Hey, did you see the name of my boat?! Do you geddit?<Nudge nudge> Do you geddit? Shall I explain it??

...to which the onlooker doubtless replies, "Isn't it unusual for a boat to be named after its owner?"

[dmr]

3 hours ago, Mike the Boilerman said:

There is a boat I've seen around a few times now called "Sloake Hunt", which I find rather distasteful.

The owner presumably finds it hysterically funny, and I sometimes imagine him drawing random people's attention to it. "Hey, did you see the name of my boat?! Do you geddit?<Nudge nudge> Do you geddit? Shall I explain it??

They actually moored right in the middle of the first ever floating market in Birmingham a few years ago. I did not hear anybody complaining but then its rather difficult to complain about stuff like that as you are sort of incriminating yourself. Daughter was quite entertained.

[dmr]

3 hours ago, rusty69 said:

You wouldn't like ours then- Mr Rusty. But then naming narrow boats in general in my opinion is a bit unnecessary altogether, a bit like giving your car a name. 

Went past your boat last year and actually thought it was quite a good name, but did notice that there was very little rust. Went past a boat down the K&A western end last week that instead of the rather boring "registered at Watford" was "Registered in Sane". That put a smile on my face.

................Dave

[The Grumpy Triker]

Wow .....thank you all ...I know it was a big ask but your responses are a great help.

i have been hunting for some time now but really searching in earnest this weekend and haveput a deposit down on 'English Rose' - owned by a couple from new build in 1998 (Peter Nicholls) 60' Cruiser stern, with a whole folder of pictures, receipts, build notes, original paperwork etc.....this was someone who knew how to keep a record of the boat.

Sadly, after years of happy short cruising, and just as the husband retired ready for their long awaited 'Big' cruise for a couple of months, he passed away from cancer a year or so back. The boat got neglected (understandably) by the wife who couldn't bring herself to visit her and now she needs some tlc. All looks pretty solid except for some soft flooring near the water heating system which looks to have had a leak, it is a boat full of possibilities if sound but need to know the report really.

one thing of interest is that you say get a non-linked surveyor, as opposed to their recommended, am going with Great Harewood Boat Sales, ...equally interesting is that their is no way to survey the sewage tank, and possibly not the water. I think the sewage tank got left with some contents and they have repeatedly washed, sterilised and pumped, no smell today but going on hope would be a worry.

it isn't being lazy about searching but I always find that searching never really gets to what I'm looking for, hence I said I'm no good at it. I will find more time to read now, but going into the weekend I had no chance.

Thanks again all, greatly appreciated.

[Dave_P]

10 hours ago, Athy said:

May I suggest a positive approach to your search?

DO find a boat whose interior welcomes you and says "Home" as that's what it's going to be.

THEN look for reasons that it can't be your home: rusting shell, engine in poor condition, signs of internal damp and rot.

IF no such reasons appear, then you've found your boat.

This may sound simplistic but I think it's a reasonable plan.

Well put. That's exactly what I did. 

[The Grumpy Triker]

16 minutes ago, Dave_P said:

Well put. That's exactly what I did. 

In response to Dave P and Athy....good advice, the one I looked at today (see above) had a feel to it....needs some tlc inside and out but happy to do it as hoping to be able to make a difference and bring a 1998 boat in ...ermm. The 1980s!?.. bit of New Wave, HeavyRock, Punk and Well anything really :-)

Being honest I need a project and also a liveaboard nowsort of thing, this one with the name just said ...ME!!....have to trust your gut and I have a lot of gut to trust :-D

[WotEver]

Sounds great. Get it surveyed and ask the surveyor for his estimation of its value. Then you have something other than your expanding gut to base your decision on

[Peter X]

My gut (a bit larger than it ideally should be) is telling me to go on crewing for other people rather than buy a boat, because this way I do more energetic boating and keep the gut under control. People generally ask for crew because they need help (some combination of physical fitness and/or boating knowledge) to get a boat from A to B, where A and B are some way apart and there sometimes isn't a lot of time available for the trip. And with the NBT there's even more opportunity to keep fit because anyone like me who can lift 25kg bags of coal is especially welcome on certain trips like the Thames where there's unloading to be done.

It seems to happen quite often that just as someone retires and plans to do more boating, ill health strikes and scuppers their plans. It's a matter of luck, some of the problems which come with age creep up on people gradually and others are sudden. I just hope that if I do buy my own boat one day, I'll go on enjoying many years of good health aboard afterwards. Anyway The Grumpy Triker, I hope if you buy this boat that all goes well for you. And for the seller, at least she gets to convert a boat she no longer wants into cash, so it's a good thing for both of you.

[Neil2]

12 hours ago, The Grumpy Triker said:

Wow .....thank you all ...I know it was a big ask but your responses are a great help.

i have been hunting for some time now but really searching in earnest this weekend and haveput a deposit down on 'English Rose' - owned by a couple from new build in 1998 (Peter Nicholls) 60' Cruiser stern, with a whole folder of pictures, receipts, build notes, original paperwork etc.....this was someone who knew how to keep a record of the boat.

Sadly, after years of happy short cruising, and just as the husband retired ready for their long awaited 'Big' cruise for a couple of months, he passed away from cancer a year or so back. The boat got neglected (understandably) by the wife who couldn't bring herself to visit her and now she needs some tlc. All looks pretty solid except for some soft flooring near the water heating system which looks to have had a leak, it is a boat full of possibilities if sound but need to know the report really.

one thing of interest is that you say get a non-linked surveyor, as opposed to their recommended, am going with Great Harewood Boat Sales, ...equally interesting is that their is no way to survey the sewage tank, and possibly not the water. I think the sewage tank got left with some contents and they have repeatedly washed, sterilised and pumped, no smell today but going on hope would be a worry.

it isn't being lazy about searching but I always find that searching never really gets to what I'm looking for, hence I said I'm no good at it. I will find more time to read now, but going into the weekend I had no chance.

Thanks again all, greatly appreciated.

I'm not a killjoy but I know how easy it is to overlook faults when you think you have found "your" boat.  

I remember looking at a boat some years ago where there was clear evidence of water having got into the cabin bilge via the floor, it turned out to be a lot more serious than was first apparent.  And don't underestimate the hassle/expense of replacing rotten flooring on a narrowboat, very few of them are user friendly in this respect. 

I wouldn't worry too much about the holding tank but ideally you should be able to inspect the integral tank.  I've made this mistake and I wouldn't buy another boat without seeing what's going on in the tank.  If it's not integral there isn't much you can do other than sterelise it.  

Peter Nicholls has a good reputation though, I don't care for the flush cruiser stern deck many of his boats have but that's just me.  

 

[The Grumpy Triker]

50 minutes ago, Neil2 said:

I'm not a killjoy but I know how easy it is to overlook faults when you think you have found "your" boat.  

I remember looking at a boat some years ago where there was clear evidence of water having got into the cabin bilge via the floor, it turned out to be a lot more serious than was first apparent.  And don't underestimate the hassle/expense of replacing rotten flooring on a narrowboat, very few of them are user friendly in this respect. 

I wouldn't worry too much about the holding tank but ideally you should be able to inspect the integral tank.  I've made this mistake and I wouldn't buy another boat without seeing what's going on in the tank.  If it's not integral there isn't much you can do other than sterelise it.  

Peter Nicholls has a good reputation though, I don't care for the flush cruiser stern deck many of his boats have but that's just me.  

 

Many thanks for that....yep fully understand about the Rose tinted specs, I really wasn't sure what I wanted but the more I looked the more I was sure about needing a project of sorts but also a boat I could live aboard straight away...just hope that nothing hugely major comes up.

Seems to have been well loved while the husband was alive, but need it to be a sound base to work from....going on above comments on local surveyors I'm going to book Iain Jones - just got a frustrating wait of 5 weeks now before it can be surveyed due to a busy marina and surveyor's availability.

cheers again :-)

[MtB]

On 05/05/2017 at 09:58, The Grumpy Triker said:

Many thanks for that....yep fully understand about the Rose tinted specs, I really wasn't sure what I wanted but the more I looked the more I was sure about needing a project of sorts but also a boat I could live aboard straight away...just hope that nothing hugely major comes up.

Seems to have been well loved while the husband was alive, but need it to be a sound base to work from....going on above comments on local surveyors I'm going to book Iain Jones - just got a frustrating wait of 5 weeks now before it can be surveyed due to a busy marina and surveyor's availability.

cheers again :-)

 

One option here would be to take a chance on the hull condition and have just a 'wet' survey done. A survey where everything inside the boat is inspected/checked/tested. This gives you the chance of revealing most of the things that get discovered on survey anyway. 

In addition, waiting five weeks leaves a pretty big window of opportunity for another buyer who doesn't care about surveys to swoop in and snap it up. There are a lot of them about and most boats turn  out on survey, to be structurally fine.

[The Grumpy Triker]

18 minutes ago, Mike the Boilerman said:

 

One option here would be to take a chance on the hull condition and have just a 'wet' survey done. A survey where everything inside the boat is inspected/checked/tested. This gives you the chance of revealing most of the things that get discovered on survey anyway. 

In addition, waiting five weeks leaves a pretty big window of opportunity for another buyer who doesn't care about surveys to swoop in and snap it up. There are a lot of them about and most boats turn  out on survey, to be structurally fine.

I did wonder if there was another option but I would have to go back to the paperwork to see when any last checks were made. Judging by his thorough filing and copious receipts etc. I would be surprised if the hull was seriously damaged, however, it is also going to be my home for the foreseeable future so need it to be right.

Just now, The Grumpy Triker said:

I did wonder if there was another option but I would have to go back to the paperwork to see when any last checks were made. Judging by his thorough filing and copious receipts etc. I would be surprised if the hull was seriously damaged, however, it is also going to be my home for the foreseeable future so need it to be right.

Meant to say it is held under a deposit so have to trust they won't sell

[MtB]

On 05/05/2017 at 10:25, The Grumpy Triker said:

Meant to say it is held under a deposit so have to trust they won't sell

 

So the terms of the deposit will govern how tempting they find it to sell to another buyer waving wads of cash and saying they will just buy it, quick and easy, as opposed to their other option of waiting five weeks for you to get around to having your survey and possibly declining the boat anyway, or wanting to re-negotiate the price.

Is your deposit non-returnable? If so, they will feel at least you are moderately committed. If it is returnable then under what circumstances? Looking at it from the sellers point of view, they may feel they have a returnable deposit is no commitment at all.

If I were selling a boat I'd drop anyone wanting a survey like a hot brick in favour of a 'no-survey' buyer. Let alone one who needs me to wait five weeks for a decision. I'm just saying look at it from the seller's point of view too. 

[The Grumpy Triker]

2 minutes ago, Mike the Boilerman said:

 

So the terms of the deposit will govern how tempting they find it to sell to another buyer waving wads of cash and saying they will just buy it, quick and easy, as opposed to their other option of waiting five weeks for you to get around to having your survey and possibly declining the boat anyway, or wanting to re-negotiate the price.

Is your deposit non-returnable? If so, they will feel at least you are moderately committed. If it is returnable then under what circumstances? Looking at it from the sellers point of view, they may feel they have a returnable deposit is no commitment at all.

If I were selling a boat I'd drop anyone wanting a survey like a hot brick in favour of a 'no-survey' buyer. Let alone one who needs me to wait five weeks for a decision. I'm just saying look at it from the seller's point of view too. 

Yep good point, although it is non-returnable unless major flaws are found that majorly affect the value, and no re-negotiation is possible or sensible.

it is a broker so would hope that they would not renege on a deal....equally maybe they would. The other issue is that it is part Financed so am checking to see if a hull survey is 'required' under their terms, I am personally guaranteeing the loan so not sure why they would worry.

You've got me thinking now....need to check elsewhere on the network as would want to get it out for cleaning and re-blacking.....also keep to fit some anodes at some point soon....reading up on them it seems sensible to fit 4 or 6 along the 60 feet. 

[MtB]

On 05/05/2017 at 10:47, The Grumpy Triker said:

Yep good point, although it is non-returnable unless major flaws are found that majorly affect the value, and no re-negotiation is possible or sensible.

it is a broker so would hope that they would not renege on a deal....equally maybe they would. The other issue is that it is part Financed so am checking to see if a hull survey is 'required' under their terms, I am personally guaranteeing the loan so not sure why they would worry.

You've got me thinking now....need to check elsewhere on the network as would want to get it out for cleaning and re-blacking.....also keep to fit some anodes at some point soon....reading up on them it seems sensible to fit 4 or 6 along the 60 feet. 

Oh really? In that case I smell a rat. Brokers usually have first dibs on the slipway for surveys as they are repeat business for the yard, and a survey docking only takes up a morning or afternoon anyway. Easy to squeeze in even when a yard is busy, I'd say, so I'm wondering if the broker is actively trying to put you off getting a survey by being awkward about when the dock is available. 

Have you asked specifically if the boat has been docked and surveyed recently by anybody else with a view to buying it, then the sale fell through? If yes, then you could possibly 'buy' the survey from the failed buyer.

Oh and ask why th sale fell through, obviously!

[IanD]

On 5/4/2017 at 09:47, Alan de Enfield said:

But 'Mil' is an imperial unit of measurement - non of that johnny-foreigner stuff.

A "mil" is a thousandth of an inch, still widely used in the US -- drives me nuts when the PCB design guys talk about "8 mil tracks with 8 mil spaces" -- what's that in real money?

(yes I know it's 0.2mm, or 200 microns if you're used to working in even smaller units like we are...)