A check list for would be boaters?

[haggis]

7 minutes ago, Alan de Enfield said:

The 'Miss Max' thread (with the last couple of posts deleted) could be far more informative for potential new boat owners.

 

Don't 'get me wrong' - I completely agree with the concept of a pinned informative thread / summary, but it needs to be constructed to be factual, informative and 'readable' to be of any use.

Examples of 'doing it right'

Examples of what not to do (Miss Max)

Examples of buying a cheap project boat and the costs & time incurred to get it liveable

Examples of what to look for when viewing boats

What is needed (apart from a boat) Licence, BSS (MOT), insurance and a mooring - or explanations of the implications of not having a mooring.

Examples of typical costs.

Awareness of the regular 'duties' of boat ownership (carrying gas bottles & coal, emptying toilets, moving to get water, maintenance, etc etc)

I am not sure how detailed the list should be. I see it more as pointers form which readers can do their own research , perhaps by asking questions on here about any aspect that concerns them. The list could contain info about buying boats (to survey or not for example) but I think this is such a big topic that it should perhaps be dealt with separately.  Just my thoughts. At the end of the day, it will be up to Daniel if the forum is going to include such pinned posts and it would be interesting to hear his views.

Haggis

 

8 minutes ago, Sea Dog said:

It was a tongue in cheek comment Haggis: check out the wink

Clearly, I don't think we should not help others to avoid pitfalls or get the best from their boat/boating.

Sorry, missed the smiley :-) 

haggis

 

[OldGoat]

I am drawn to the conclusion that folks don't bother to do research first, nor even have a quick look through likely threads - but just jump in.

I suspect it's due to people browsing on mobile phones / small tablets where its tedious to page through threads.

Comments??

[haggis]

1 minute ago, OldGoat said:

I am drawn to the conclusion that folks don't bother to do research first, nor even have a quick look through likely threads - but just jump in.

I suspect it's due to people browsing on mobile phones / small tablets where its tedious to page through threads.

Comments??

I think a lot do as you say and nothing we can do will stop that! However, it would be nice to give some help to those who actually look for more info.  I think there are enough of that sort of post on here to show that there is a need.

 

haggis

[OldGoat]

Just now, haggis said:

I think a lot do as you say and nothing we can do will stop that! However, it would be nice to give some help to those who actually look for more info.  I think there are enough of that sort of post on here to show that there is a need.

 

haggis

Oh yes, I do agree - just thought I'd drop a wobbly in...

My hat off to -whoever- is going to do the work, it's no contest that any (sensible) contribution would be of great value.

[Debby]

The problem is that people react in different ways to advice. Some, like my brother-in-law, see it as being told what to do and put their fingers in their ears. A lot of people also won't notice "pinned threads". They've come on here to ask a question, and ask it they will, no matter what.

The two example threads being quoted show two very different ends. Starcoaster did what everyone told her not to do, and seems to have made it work very successfully. MissMax did what everyone told her not to do...it doesn't seem to have ended well.

At one time we were seriously thinking about buying a boat to live on. I didn't ask questions on here, I simply read every thread as it came up, whether it seemed relevant or not. I also chatted to boaters I met whilst dog walking along the canal, again not asking questions, just general conversation. We also volunteered, through this forum, to help out with locks. We very soon realised that boat owning was not for us - in fact, boating is not for us, though we still love walking along the canal, and very much love meeting up with friends who do have boats.

Just my opinion

[Murflynn]

can I suggest that CWDF should sponsor (not financially) and publicise a pdf booklet containing all the real world advice that has been provided on this forum.

all it needs is a willing scribe to search the forum, and find and incorporate all the advice that has been given (and received with general agreement by others) over the years.  Any volunteers?  Could be done by several respected individuals, each assembling a separate pdf chapter dealing with separate issues, including buying, various equipment and maintenance matters, mooring, licensing, etc.  

 

[haggis]

21 minutes ago, Murflynn said:

can I suggest that CWDF should sponsor (not financially) and publicise a pdf booklet containing all the real world advice that has been provided on this forum.

all it needs is a willing scribe to search the forum, and find and incorporate all the advice that has been given (and received with general agreement by others) over the years.  Any volunteers?  Could be done by several respected individuals, each assembling a separate pdf chapter dealing with separate issues, including buying, various equipment and maintenance matters, mooring, licensing, etc.  

 

Good idea but a lot of work to create such an item. What I have in mind is along the lines of what I started this thread off with - not much longer  longer! Just pointers for folk to consider then they can do more research if they wish. 

 

haggis

[Debby]

50 minutes ago, haggis said:

Good idea but a lot of work to create such an item. What I have in mind is along the lines of what I started this thread off with - not much longer  longer! Just pointers for folk to consider then they can do more research if they wish. 

 

haggis

And then they'll start a thread asking the question they came on here to ask in the first place.

[WotEver]

1 hour ago, Murflynn said:

can I suggest that CWDF should sponsor (not financially) and publicise a pdf booklet containing all the real world advice that has been provided on this forum.

all it needs is a willing scribe to search the forum, and find and incorporate all the advice that has been given (and received with general agreement by others) over the years.  Any volunteers?  Could be done by several respected individuals, each assembling a separate pdf chapter dealing with separate issues, including buying, various equipment and maintenance matters, mooring, licensing, etc.  

 

How is that different from a wiki (apart from being less useable)?

[Alan de Enfield]

So one 'expert' takes his life into his hands and writes 'how to manage your batteries' article - other 'experts' then argue that what was said is 'all wrong' and it should say ...................

 

But - of course that would never happen would it -  ???????

[WotEver]

4 minutes ago, Alan de Enfield said:

So one 'expert' takes his life into his hands and writes 'how to manage your batteries' article - other 'experts' then argue that what was said is 'all wrong' and it should say ...................

 

But - of course that would never happen would it -  ???????

Surely that is the whole basis of wiki articles. They are open to peer review and editing. I don't believe I have ever seen two members on here arguing about facts, only opinions. 

[rusty69]

1 minute ago, WotEver said:

Surely that is the whole basis of wiki articles. They are open to peer review and editing. I don't believe I have ever seen two members on here arguing about facts, only opinions. 

Is that a fact? 

[WotEver]

Just now, rusty69 said:

Is that a fact? 

Wanna make something of it?

[Alan de Enfield]

11 minutes ago, WotEver said:

Surely that is the whole basis of wiki articles. They are open to peer review and editing. I don't believe I have ever seen two members on here arguing about facts, only opinions. 

I recall 'opinions' getting very heated and folks being told, (not very politely !!) 'you are just wrong'.

[BruceinSanity]

5 hours ago, ditchcrawler said:

Where? I would like to look at it.

I've PM'ed you.

[Neil2]

17 minutes ago, WotEver said:

Surely that is the whole basis of wiki articles. They are open to peer review and editing. I don't believe I have ever seen two members on here arguing about facts, only opinions. 

I don't know about that, ignorance of the "facts" has never stopped members of this forum arguing with each other, even, or especially, if they are both wrong.

 

[Dr Bob]

As an 'outsider' to this forum - and a new member just getting into canals - I find looking at a lot of the pinned posts a bit out of date. We have done extensive searches on specific topics far more useful than the pinned posts as they are more recent - and it is entertaining to see the relentless banter on 'non pinned' posts. For instance I am now looking to find the best deal on mega gigs download for 4g - and all the pinned posts are a bit out of date.

I mean, if we had pinned posts on everything, where would the humour be?

Did I mention I was trying to find the best 4G deal?

[rusty69]

20 minutes ago, Dr Bob said:

As an 'outsider' to this forum - and a new member just getting into canals - I find looking at a lot of the pinned posts a bit out of date. We have done extensive searches on specific topics far more useful than the pinned posts as they are more recent - and it is entertaining to see the relentless banter on 'non pinned' posts. For instance I am now looking to find the best deal on mega gigs download for 4g - and all the pinned posts are a bit out of date.

I mean, if we had pinned posts on everything, where would the humour be?

Did I mention I was trying to find the best 4G deal?

Watch out for the EE deal 32GB for£15/month.Comes up occasionally. 

 

Or

 

https://www.mymemory.co.uk/3-payg-4g-trio-data-sim-pack-incl-12gb-data.html?source=Webgains

Edited May 2, 2017 by rusty69

[Murflynn]

facts get in the way of progress and meaningful discussion.  shouldn't be allowed.

[Dr Bob]

3 hours ago, rusty69 said:

Watch out for the EE deal 32GB for£15/month.Comes up occasionally. 

 

Or

 

https://www.mymemory.co.uk/3-payg-4g-trio-data-sim-pack-incl-12gb-data.html?source=Webgains

Thanks Rusty ......sorry for trying to divert the thread!

[zenataomm]

So you've decided to be a Boater.

How did this downfall occur?

What led you to this mis-informed, expensive decision?

 

Was it because it looks so peaceful and uncomplicated cruising the canals?

Could it be because you want to escape the mad world of bureaucracy, petty rules and endless bills?

Or perhaps you've heard of The Bohemian lifestyle that can be lived so cheaply stopping where you want for as long as you want? As told enthusiastically by Bloke down the pub whom it just so happens knows of a wonderful boat for sale. "Just buy it and go".

If any of the above applies then ......Here are a few lines of advice.

As with all things new and unfamiliar there are traits of Theory, a dollop of Practice and Researching a bit never goes amiss.

• Theory is when you know everything, but nothing works.
• Practice is when everything works but no one knows why.

A life afloat combines both of the above closely, there will be many times nothing works and nobody knows why. This will unerringly occur when your water tank is empty while your toilet overflows.

Pub landlords will quickly recognise you and mutter under their breath everytime you slide into their pub to use their loo. You will be nicknamed "The Phantom Bog Roll Nicker".

 

I mentioned Research earlier and that it never goes amiss. If you've never gotten your head around being unconciously incompetent (Not Knowing What You Don't Know) Then you're in for a treat.

Exploring what you need to know starts out with asking yourself "After all what could possibly go wrong?" However as you don't know the answer to that one, just content yourself that doing your research will result in you knowing more and more about less and less until you know everything about nothing.

Don't worry though, as boaters, everyone of us has had to resolve problems we didn’t know we had in ways we don’t understand. Why should you be any different?

Make sure the boat you've set your heart on has an interesting smell, it is a boat after all. Go for the slightly abndoned look it hints of "unloved" and you'll get a lot of satisfaction from giving it purpose again. The more love you bestow on it along with Shabby Chic pastel paint the less problems you'll have ....................... probably.

Engines are a different issue completely. You have to treat your engine as an enemy, otherwise why would we keep it in a rusty, damp dungeon under our feet. You'll know you have a good engine when it works fine when you buy your boat and then allows you to spend all Winter mending it until it's broken.

One thing about working on a filthy, greasy engine is that as soon as you transfer the muck to your hands …..

Your eyes will itch

You’ll need a pee

And your mobile will ring, but not for long, as it will slip out of your top pocket as you lean over the engine.

 

You will envisage cooking and brewing everything up on your wood stove, until you realise how long a cold stove takes to boil a kettle. So, inconveniently, your gas stove will come to your rescue. I say inconveniently because you'll soon discover how few places sell it and how far up a muddy dark towpath you have to carry 13Kg of awkward shaped metal with a sharp handle.

What perverse intelligence thought that combining running out of gas before your Pot Noodle has softened with a left hand thread on a dark cold Winter evening?

Another exciting skill to learn will be forgetting everything you know about 240 Volt AC 50Hz and trying to fathom out how appliances that use 12 Volt DC cost 3 times as much but are only effective at draining your batteries.

Talking of sparks something you'll never understand is why you need to start your engine when your lights dim in order to get them bright again, yet when you get to that stage you probably won't have enough electrons to start the engine. And even if you did, you need to run the engine for about 45 mins to get the batteries back to where they were before you hit the starter. So you need to develop a strong sense of "because the lights are bright I could start the engine and waste three quarters of an hour of fuel and peace to be no better off than before except at some point it'll all be too late and although I've saved money and had a peaceful evening, I can't now pump water into the kettle ...... or out of my bilge."

At least though you will not only quickly learn that you’ll meet little resistance and need to be prepared to do it with more frequency, but you'll also understand that joke.

When you buy a boat sight unseen or without seeking advice don’t believe in miracles rely on them.

 

A boat is actually a collection of different machines. Anyone of which can ruin your day when it stops working. You should start looking for the problem in the most unusual place. Start at the furthest point away from where the problem appears to be.

A sensible starting point is two moorings down, on the opposite side of the cut, especially if during the night a vital bit of your boat or equipment has gone missing off the roof or back deck.

 

However you decide to conduct your baptism into the world of Canals & Boats you'll be impressed with the frequency at which you find yourself approaching total strangers in order to ask them questions like: -

Is it normal that frogs live in my bilge?

Do you grow mushrooms on the back of your toilet door too?

Who are those nasty people that keep leaving threatening letters taped to the cabin?

 

Don't waste time asking other boaters about such problems, they'll give you answers that scare you.

It's best to go back and ask Bloke in the pub, for his attitude to it all will inspire you without worrying you to the point of losing sleep at night.

He will demonstrate his skill base as one who does precision guesswork based on unreliable data provided by those of questionable knowledge.

Good enough for anyone really who is buying a boat for the wrong reasons or likely to transfer their interests to making Tie & Dye T shirts from a camper van in Cornwall in a couple of years time.

 

However I did promise you some useful advice.

And here's some you can take advantage of from night one on your boat.

 

Until you have proven evidence that your battery(ies) hold some sort of charge over night, and that your bilge pump works; follow this instruction.

Put your boots under your bed and sleep with the laces in a firm grip with one hand.

That way if they start to float away in the night towards the back of your boat, not only will you wake up ..... but you'll know where your boots are!

 

 

 

[BruceinSanity]

8 hours ago, zenataomm said:

So you've decided to be a Boater.

Greens for a brilliant post.

Are you Starry's sister?

[Sea Dog]

9 hours ago, zenataomm said:

So you've decided to be a Boater.

Did you write that of the top of your head? If so, full marks for effort as well as full marks for content!

[Murflynn]

2 hours ago, BruceinSanity said:

Greens for a brilliant post.

Are you Starry's sister?

or Miss Max displaying a rare moment of pragmatism and summarising why boating is over-rated ......................   

Edited May 3, 2017 by Murflynn

[haggis]

That's brilliant! 

haggis