Anchors Aweigh!

[rusty69]

11 hours ago, Murflynn said:

what - having them ready to use, or actually wearing them?

Well, there seems little point having one after you fall in if you ain't wearing it.  But then, I haven't been on a three week intensive health and safety course like you. 

[rusty69]

22 minutes ago, Murflynn said:

did I say that?

just answer the bleeding question.  

Perhaps you could do the same 

[Neil2]

27 minutes ago, Murflynn said:

then clearly you ain't been through a proper elfinsafety course, like what i did with BP - 3 weeks intensive with regular 2 day refreshers.

the basis of the training was that you do not take anything for granted, and assess each situation (and car journey) individually.......................... 

 

I remember years ago I spent a day with a loss control expert in the oil industry, it was a revelation.  The problem with H&S is people tend to view it as a chore and worse, a box ticking exercise.  

A good example is Portable Appliance Testing.  The Boat Safety Scheme is another. 

[bizzard]

Trouble with the BSS, as with the MOT when it first began in 1960, is once the MOT or BSS is done and passed many folk think AH! that's it, everythng's fine, I don't need to bother regularly checking around things anymore like I used to. Whereas before these tests were introduced even the most least practical of folk knew they had a duty to check basic safety items like tyres, lights, look for leaks, dodgy wires, odd noises or anything out of the ordinary that they knew wasn't right.  But a great many don't bother anymore. Many think it passed its MOT, BSS so everything must be okay until the next is due, many car owners actually said this to me after they had an MOT!!!  Consequently there are probably just as many accidents caused through neglect as before these tests were introduced, especially with boats.   It made the less practical folk even less practical.

Edited April 5, 2017 by bizzard

[cuthound]

1 hour ago, Neil2 said:

I remember years ago I spent a day with a loss control expert in the oil industry, it was a revelation.  The problem with H&S is people tend to view it as a chore and worse, a box ticking exercise.  

A good example is Portable Appliance Testing.  The Boat Safety Scheme is another. 

Completely agree, having worked in a hazardous industry all of my life, and lost a colleague in the pre HASAW Act days, I am well aware of the positive impact H&S has on people's lives.

The problem arises when people who don't fully understand the H&S aspects of the task in hand,  or even worse, those who cannot accept personal responsibility get involved with undertaking Risk Assessments. The net result is stupidly risk averse risk assessments for low risk tasks and the "box ticking" mentality  that Neil2 refers to.

[MtB]

For those on here who have never been on The Thames, and who think if the OP's engine stops he is immediately going to get rolled under a weir barrage in the fierce summer torrent, I'd like to point out that nowhere have I advocated having no anchor.

I just asked what the danger was, and rebutted the assertions that loss of the boat over a weir would be imminent. No-one seems to have come up with any risk other than the boat getting taken over a (securely barraged) weir. 

[rusty69]

12 minutes ago, Mike the Boilerman said:

For those on here who have never been on The Thames, and who think if the OP's engine stops he is immediately going to get rolled under a weir barrage in the fierce summer torrent, I'd like to point out that nowhere have I advocated having no anchor.

I just asked what the danger was, and rebutted the assertions that loss of the boat over a weir would be imminent. No-one seems to have come up with any risk other than the boat getting taken over a (securely barraged) weir. 

It seems everyone agrees its a good idea to carry an anchor on the non tidal Thames then.

Next subject, or shall we carry on with the lifejacket theme?

[mrsmelly]

2 minutes ago, rusty69 said:

It seems everyone agrees its a good idea to carry an anchor on the non tidal Thames then.

Next subject, or shall we carry on with the lifejacket theme?

I think the life jacket one is best. I carry six at all times and I always wear one when on a river, which beggars the question can I breathe underwater on the canal? no I cant so why dont I wear one when boating on the canal? answer because I and others are numpties 

[Richard10002]

7 minutes ago, mrsmelly said:

I think the life jacket one is best. I carry six at all times and I always wear one when on a river, which beggars the question can I breathe underwater on the canal? no I cant so why dont I wear one when boating on the canal? answer because I and others are numpties 

During our Inland Waterways Helmsman course in 2006, the instructor asked what we would do first if someone fell overboard. Having been sailing on the open sea for 25 years, and having been an officer in the Metchant Navy for a short while, I gave lots of answers, none of which were accepted as the "first" thing you might do. 

"Ask if they can touch the bottom and stand up? If so, you could walk ashore" was the answer.

He added that all the other things like; stop the engine; throw the lifebelt; deploy the boat hook, and so on, and were valid answers as the things to do/consider in the nanoseconds after asking the question. 

Clearly, some canals are more than a few feet deep in parts, so you can't always stand up and walk. 

[rusty69]

16 minutes ago, mrsmelly said:

I think the life jacket one is best. I carry six at all times and I always wear one when on a river, which beggars the question can I breathe underwater on the canal? no I cant so why dont I wear one when boating on the canal? answer because I and others are numpties 

You should of course wear more than one. I would suggest at least three in case of failure,and two of those should be self inflating with a whistle and a light.

Edited April 5, 2017 by rusty69
Cos I forgot the smiley face to suggest a joke

[mrsmelly]

1 minute ago, Richard10002 said:

During our Inland Waterways Helmsman course in 2006, the instructor asked what we would do first if someone fell overboard. Having been sailing on the open sea for 25 years, and having been an officer in the Metchant Navy for a short while, I gave lots of answers, none of which were accepted as the "first" thing you might do. 

"Ask if they can touch the bottom and stand up? If so, you could walk ashore" was the answer.

He added that all the other things like; stop the engine; throw the lifebelt; deploy the boat hook, and so on, and were valid answers as the things to do/consider in the nanoseconds after asking the question. 

Clearly, some canals are more than a few feet deep in parts, so you can't always stand up and walk. 

And if you have knocked yourself out hitting the boat or tumbled in due to a medical problem will you be able to stand up?

[bizzard]

A huge and terrible Tsunami can be caused by lock gates busting, so never ever cast of and venture forth without your rescue helicopter hovering above.  A few years ago a big Tsunami happened here, two narrowboats were sunk and one was sloshed up onto the bank. A huge guillotine gate that spanned the width of the river up in town here was whacked fully open in one go by some imbecile of an operator (EA I expect) after heavy flood water threatened the town centre. I think the stupid clot got the sack.

 

 

 

[Alan de Enfield]

27 minutes ago, mrsmelly said:

And if you have knocked yourself out hitting the boat or tumbled in due to a medical problem will you be able to stand up?

And there lies the difference between a lifejacket and a buoyancy aid.

Edited April 5, 2017 by Alan de Enfield

[rusty69]

2 minutes ago, Alan de Enfield said:

And there les the difference between a lifejacket and a buoyancy aid.

I always thought the difference was about 30 quid.

[Neil2]

The life jacket thing gives an interesting insight into human nature.  The risk is obvious, yet you rarely see anyone wearing one on the canals, occasionally on rivers you do, but they seem to be almost universally eschewed among narrowboaters.   What puzzles me even more is the number of times you will see a family group and all the kids under a certain age have life jackets or buoyancy aids but none of the adults.  I've seen many adults fall in the canal/river (I really should slow down I suppose..) but never any children. 

I'm sure it's because most boaters have some hangup about being seen wearing a life jacket, but almost every cyclist you see these days wears a helmet, even though they make you look a complete wally.

 

[BargeeSpud]

Sorry, I've been sidetracked these last few days, but I'll respond in general to the usual brilliant & varied cross section of responses so typical of a CWDF topic!

First, there are some great instances for using an anchor that had never even crossed my mind, in particular a stalled engine due to an obstruction of the prop, be it bag, log etc.

Second, my apologies for not being clearer, I intend to cruise from early May for several weeks.

An observation regarding chain length - 100'!? Tryping errot shorely. I'm not chuffin built like Arnie, let alone the missus.

From all the posts, I'm now thinking that an anchor is more than a good idea & that a 20Kg Danforth with around 10' of chain will be a decent compromise in my case, oh and we will both be wearing life jackets whilst underway.

Cheers all & thanks for taking the time & effort to post. Good, bad, irrelevant or indifferent, they're all worth reading.

Edited April 5, 2017 by BargeeSpud

[Naughty Cal]

12 minutes ago, Neil2 said:

The life jacket thing gives an interesting insight into human nature.  The risk is obvious, yet you rarely see anyone wearing one on the canals, occasionally on rivers you do, but they seem to be almost universally eschewed among narrowboaters.   What puzzles me even more is the number of times you will see a family group and all the kids under a certain age have life jackets or buoyancy aids but none of the adults.  I've seen many adults fall in the canal/river (I really should slow down I suppose..) but never any children. 

I'm sure it's because most boaters have some hangup about being seen wearing a life jacket, but almost every cyclist you see these days wears a helmet, even though they make you look a complete wally.

 

We rarely used to wear ours on the non tidal Trent until the lock keepers asked us one day to keep an eye out for the body of a fellow boater. 

He had been knocked off the back of his narrowboat when the rudder struck something and the tiller swung around sending him off the back of the boat. 

Since then we always wear them on the Trent and other larger rivers.

 

10 minutes ago, BargeeSpud said:

Sorry, I've been sidetracked these last few days, but I'll respond in general to the usual brilliant & varied cross section of responses so typical of a CWDF topic!

First, there are some great instances for using an anchor that had never even crossed my mind, in particular a stalled engine due to an obstruction of the prop, be it bag, log etc.

Second, my apologies for not being clearer, I intend to cruise from early May for several weeks.

An observation regarding chain length - 100'!? Tryping errot shorely. I'm not chuffin built like Arnie, let alone the missus.

From all the posts, I'm now thinking that an anchor is more than a good idea & that a 20Kg Danforth with around 10' of chain will be a decent compromise in my case, oh and we will both be wearing life jackets whilst underway.

Cheers all & thanks for taking the time & effort to post. Good, bad, irrelevant or indifferent, they're all worth reading.

You will need more then 10' of chain.

[WotEver]

1 hour ago, rusty69 said:

two of those should be self inflating with a whistle and a light.

What, you're thinking of having a disco while you're in the cut?

[rusty69]

2 minutes ago, WotEver said:

What, you're thinking of having a disco while you're in the cut?

Nah, a bath maybe if I remember to grab the soap and towel as I fall in. I always like to take a bath once a year whether I need one or not.

[WotEver]

Just now, rusty69 said:

Nah, a bath maybe if I remember to grab the soap and towel as I fall in. I always like to take a bath once a year whether I need one or not.

... while blowing a whistle and flashing a light...?

Sure, whatever makes you happy

[rusty69]

Just now, WotEver said:

... while blowing a whistle and flashing a light...?

Sure, whatever makes you happy

Don't be silly, that would just be weird!

[Naughty Cal]

2 minutes ago, rusty69 said:

Don't be silly, that would just be weird!

So blowing a whistle, flashing a light and wearing a spray hood?

[mrsmelly]

2 minutes ago, Naughty Cal said:

So blowing a whistle, flashing a light and wearing a spray hood?

Spray hoods are no where near as naff as pram hoods.

[rusty69]

3 minutes ago, Naughty Cal said:

So blowing a whistle, flashing a light and wearing a spray hood?

I wouldn't dream of going in without a sprayhood, I wouldn't want to get my hair wet.

[Naughty Cal]

Just now, rusty69 said:

I wouldn't dream of going in without a sprayhood, I wouldn't want to get my hair wet.

Best not forget your crotch strap either