fridge next to oven

[bizzard]

Well so the answer seems to be 12 volt fridge with at least additional cooling fan although because we will very likely have a Victron 3000 pure sine wave -as a anticipated leisure cruiser prefer to cruise and wash rather than take it home or spend time in a marina etc. launderette- still mulling 12 volt or 240 volt. Everyone has their view but its location next to the oven has helped considerably. Thank you.

A gas fridge would be more compatible with a gas oven.

[system 4-50]

Well so the answer seems to be 12 volt fridge with at least additional cooling fan although because we will very likely have a Victron 3000 pure sine wave -as a anticipated leisure cruiser prefer to cruise and wash rather than take it home or spend time in a marina etc. launderette- still mulling 12 volt or 240 volt. Everyone has their view but its location next to the oven has helped considerably. Thank you.

How are you planning to dry the washing?

[Alan de Enfield]

How are you planning to dry the washing?

 

Obviously a Tumble-Dryer.

[Keith M]

Complete nonsense, 12v fridges use the same cabinets as 240v fridges, the only difference is the compressor, Danfos 12v is the most usual and Danfos are considered to be the bench mark fridge compressor.

Phil

 

In my experience as a marine electrical designer and installer

 

All DC fridges start life as an AC fridge

 

The conversion are normally carried out on cabinets with a poor energy rating B + or A at best

 

To buy a converter AC fridge to DC cost between £ 350 / 450

 

For around £ 200 you can purchase a Fridge with an Energy rating of A+ or better, which will have a much better specification as well

 

As the OP is installing an victron inverter this is a no brainer install an AC fridge

 

Save money on the fridge and also costly DC cables

 

Keith

[mross]

Shoreline DC fridges need a one-inch gap at the rear AND sides. Also, they will not work properly if the ambient temperature drops below 16 degrees Celsius.

 

http://www.shoreline-marine.co.uk/admin/document_library/RRInstructions_BD35ONLY.v16_011211.pdf

 

Most fridges and freezers will have limitations in a cold boat. Most domestic units will work down to ten degrees Celsius.

 

All fridges are rated according to the maximum and minimum ambient temperatures they will continue to function efficiently in. Many Beko appliances can run at lower temperatures than the climate class shown, so be sure to check your specific model. The three climate classes are:
SN (Sub Normal) +10°C - +32°C
N (Normal) +16°C - +32°C
(Sub Tropical) +18°C - +38°C

Edited January 15, 2017 by mross

[mross]

And do look at the Energy Saving Trust ratings. Modern, efficient fridges use far less electricity than they did ten years ago. A fridge can cost less than £25 a year to run today; back then it would have been closer to £150!

 

I can't see these ratings anywhere on the Shoreline website but I think they have to be displayed at point of sale. The best advice is to pick the smallest unit that matches your needs and then go the most efficient in that size. This will draw the least energy from your batteries when not on shore/generator power.

Edited January 15, 2017 by mross

[Alan de Enfield]

Shoreline DC fridges need a one-inch gap at the rear AND sides. Also, they will not work properly if the ambient temperature drops below 16 degrees Celsius.

 

http://www.shoreline-marine.co.uk/admin/document_library/RRInstructions_BD35ONLY.v16_011211.pdf

 

Most fridges and freezers will have limitations in a cold boat. Most domestic units will work down to ten degrees Celsius.

 

All fridges are rated according to the maximum and minimum ambient temperatures they will continue to function efficiently in. Many Beko appliances can run at lower temperatures than the climate class shown, so be sure to check your specific model. The three climate classes are:

SN (Sub Normal) +10°C - +32°C

N (Normal) +16°C - +32°C

(Sub Tropical) +18°C - +38°C

 

That's interesting - particularly as my 12v 'boat fridge' has vastly different 'numbers'

 

7.1 Installing the refrigerator The appliance is designed for ambient temperatures between –10°C and +43 °C. In continuous operation, the air humidity may not exceed 90 %. Set up the fridge in a dry, sheltered place. Avoid placing it near heat sources such as radiators, gas ovens, hot water pipes etc. Do not let it stand in direct, strong sunlight. Install the refrigerator so that the warm air produced can easily flow away (either upwards or to the sides). Therefore make sure there is adequate ventilation (fig. 7, page 6).

 

The ventilation requirements are for a 50mm 'air-gap'.

 

The fridge is also designed to work correctly whilst at various 'angles' on a boat and will correctly function 'at an inclination up to 30^o'.

 

Maybe its worth paying £650 (rather than £200) to get the 'proper tool for the job'.

 

 

[mross]

That's interesting! What is the make and model? Does it have an energy efficiency rating? I see Shoreline are quoting Amp-hours per hour for their fridges!!!

 

Oh, I see from a Google search of your quote that it is a Waeco CR-0110E or similar. Well worth the money if you leave the fridge on and the boat gets down to freezing temps.

Edited January 15, 2017 by mross

[Alan de Enfield]

That's interesting! What is the make and model? Does it have an energy efficiency rating? I see Shoreline are quoting Amp-hours per hour for their fridges!!!

 

Manual attached.

 

Consumption appears to be around 30Ah-35Ah per day

 

Waeco CR 80 manual.pdf

[mross]

Average energy consumption is quoted at 40W. Seems quite high? That's 80Ah by my reckoning? I assume you have measured it so your figure is quite good.

Edited January 15, 2017 by mross

[Alan de Enfield]

Average energy consumption is quoted at 40W. Seems quite high? That's 80Ah by my reckoning? I assume you have measured it so your figure is quite good.

 

Yes - measured.

 

It is now only running 20 minutes (varies from 15min to 30 min depending on contents and ambient temps) per hour.

 

It was running virtually 100% of the time, but that was due to low voltage (undersized cabling), but once I changed it to 6mm² it started running 'properly'

[mross]

On the Dometic website the operating range for the CR80 is given as +18 to +43. I'm beginning to wonder if that -10 is a misprint. It's very unusual for a fridge to work when it's colder outside than in! I see an energy rating of A+ and a current draw of ~ 1A average.

[Alan de Enfield]

On the Dometic website the operating range for the CR80 is given as +18 to +43. I'm beginning to wonder if that -10 is a misprint. It's very unusual for a fridge to work when it's colder outside than in! I see an energy rating of A+ and a current draw of ~ 1A average.

 

Possible.

Agreed.

 

1A 'average' would tie in 'reasonably well' with my figures. I guess their tests are done in ideal 'laboratory' conditions, whilst my usage is the 'real world', (adding food, opening the door, thermostat set lower than 'ideal' etc etc).

[mross]

I think your fridge has a 'Tropical' T rating. In which case it is designed for an ambient of +18 °C and +43 °C !!

 

N Class (temperature class) - ambient of +16 °C and +32 °C.
SN Class (extended temperature class) - ambient of +10 °C and +32 °C.
ST Class (sub-tropical class) -ambient of +18 °C and +38 °C.
T Class (Tropical class) - ambient of +18 °C and +43 °C.

 

I have written to Waeco (now branded Dometic) to query this point. Will revert when they answer.

 

I left a fridge freezer in an unheated house over winter and it knackered it. This is why I am a bit obsessed about climate ratings. I do know that you CAN buy garage and outdoor freezers that are designed differently.

[jddevel]

Washing machine-Optimistically will dry outside. The points regarding fridge and the range of types (sub-tropical, tropical) are an eye opener, Something else to consider but with a anticipated use end of March through to October may not be too difficult to appraise. Had sort of rejected gas fridge due to more gas joints and fittings.

[mross]

Waeco fridges are suitable for solar operation! Guess this means they can hold temps overnight.

[Robbo]

Waeco fridges are suitable for solar operation! Guess this means they can hold temps overnight.

Isotherm fridges have a ASU option which is a cooling plate, when the system detects charger it works in overdrive to cool the plate and it then uses this first when the batteries are not been detected been charged. It's meant to be around 35% more efficient than a fridge without. However they have a new smart energy control system which is meant to be even more efficient.

[ditchcrawler]

Here are some measurements I took in 2006 on my 240 LEC fridge which I think is the same cabinet that shoreline used. LEC actually produced it in a 12/24 volt in those days but stopped selling to the public in about 2000 and after that only supplied it to one company in the UK. I just missed out.

 

I have been running another set of tests on our 240 volt fridge.The fridge runs via a Mastervolt Mass Sine 24/1500 and all current readings are take from a Sterling Battery Management unit.

The inverter + Fridge + fans =3.5 amps at 24 nominal volts

The Inverter + Fridge = 3.4 amps at 24 nominal volts

The Inverter = 0.4 amps at 24 nominal volts

I have connected a RS hour meter across the refrigerator compressor to record compressor run hours.

The refrigerator is a LEC Elan and sits under a work top with 25mm air gap each side and 50mm between the top of the refrigerator and the

underside of the work top. The air space behind the refrigerator is well over the recommended space as the hull side slopes from the floor to

the gunwale.

There are ventilation holes drilled in the floor behind and below the fridge. Also there are 4 computer fans mounted in the floor connected in

series parallel that when running blow cool air from under the floor up the condenser. All readings were taken with the fridge in normal use.

The fridge thermostat was set at 3 and had been running for a couple of days to allow things to stabilise before readings were taken at 1700 hrs

each day. The thermometer inside the fridge was reading at the top of the acceptable range.

At the end of the first day with the fans off and the fridge running as normal the hour meter recorded a running time of 7.6 hrs in 24 hrs.

On the second day the fans were switch on and the reading at the end of 24 hrs was 7 hrs. The next day the fans were switched off and the hours run were 7.1

This indicates to me that the fridge was adequately ventilated as installed.

That night I insulated the fridge on both sides and the top with sheets of 25mm close cell insulation foam covered on both sides with aluminium foil as used in the building trade.

At this point things got interesting which I can't explain. The running hours were slightly less but the internal temperature of the fridge fell. Over the next 2

days I adjusted the thermostat setting to bring the internal temperature back to its original level. This resulted on it now being set at 1.5 as opposed to the

original 3.

I don't know why this happened as in my book the thermostat should keep the inside of the fridge at a constant temperature. I suspect it is a timer and not a stat.

Once this had settled down I started recording readings again which run between 6.3 and 5.7 hours per day

DATE TIME HOUR READING RUN HOURS Ah

11/8/06 1700hrs 1170.2

12/8/06 1700 hrs 1177.8 7.6 25.8 Ah

With the fan on

13/8/06 1700hrs 1184.7 6.9 23.5 Ah

With the fan off

14/8/06 1700hrs 1191.8 7.1 24.4 Ah

Insulation added and fans on

15/8/06 1700hrs 1198.5 6.7 22.8 Ah

After reduced the thermostat setting

16/8/06 1700hrs 1205.0 6.5 22.8 Ah

17/8/06 1700 hrs 1211.3 6.7 22.8 Ah

18/8/06 1700hrs 1217.0 5.7 20 Ah

19/8/06 1700hrs 1223.6 6.6 23.1 Ah

20/8/06 1700hrs 1230.0 6.4 22.4 Ah

21/8/06 1700hrs 1235.5 5.5 19.3 Ah

22/8/06 1700hrs 1241.2 5.7 20 Ah

[WotEver]

I agree that the thermostat is more likely to be a timer - many are. Unfortunately that means that with/without fans is a meaningless test if you're measuring compressor run time.

 

Internal temperature with/without fans would be an interesting test.

[OldGoat]

WotEver, on 15 Jan 2017 - 11:23 AM, said:

I agree that the thermostat is more likely to be a timer - many are. Unfortunately that means that with/without fans is a meaningless test if you're measuring compressor run time.

 

Internal temperature with/without fans would be an interesting test.

- Never thought of that! Probably explains why my FF (Batts modified LEC case) temperature varies widely (within limits), to such an extent makes me worried that it's on the way out - the case certainly is!

 

Nowadays with CE certification and modern insulation, fridges generally are more efficient and that includes better (?) temperature control. Certainly my domestic units do.

[MtB]

That's interesting! What is the make and model? Does it have an energy efficiency rating? I see Shoreline are quoting Amp-hours per hour for their fridges!!!

 

 

What's wrong with that? It is the correct unit for defining energy consumption on an appliance that turns on and off.

 

Agreed one also needs to know the current being drawn while the compressor is running in order to correctly size the cables.

 

My old Shoreline fridge manual quotes energy consumption in Amps per hour, which is clearly a nonsense. At least they've recognised this and corrected it!

[mross]

Ah/h is just Amps. They could say 'average current. Much more useful is Ah per day or better, kWh per day. Shoreline also say the fridge must be levelled!

 

Waeco/Dometic say 30 degrees in any direction.

[ditchcrawler]

I agree that the thermostat is more likely to be a timer - many are. Unfortunately that means that with/without fans is a meaningless test if you're measuring compressor run time.

 

Internal temperature with/without fans would be an interesting test.

Unfortunately I didn't realise until I was further into the tests

edit

Also remember the fridge was in use so not like a proper test where they just shut it up for 24 hours

Edited January 15, 2017 by ditchcrawler

[Dave Payne]

I can dry a full load of washing on a clothes horse, set it out in the bedroom then move in the lounge at night to get warmth from the fire, dries everything overnight.

 

Summer, outside yes.

[Robbo]

I can dry a full load of washing on a clothes horse, set it out in the bedroom then move in the lounge at night to get warmth from the fire, dries everything overnight.

Summer, outside yes.

I would dry clothes in the shower area (when not in use ofcourse), this will reduce condensation in the rest of the boat and you should already have decent ventilation in the shower area (or add if not already).