Brigantine

[Edward_M]

 

 

 

Curiously Chrome won't let me look at that advert, giving me the following error message:

 

 

This site can’t provide a secure connection

www.dutchbargesforsale.co.uk uses an unsupported protocol.

ERR_SSL_VERSION_OR_CIPHER_MISMATCH

 

Try visiting the site, www.dutchbargesforsale.co.uk, going to the sales page and scrolling down to Holland.

[RLWP]

 

 

The ship was build in 1931 and recently complete rebuild. Fold down teakwood wheelhouse. Underwater hull complete renovated, above water new build sides, decks, wheelhouse and living. 3 cabins. Double glazing, Steering controles with dashboard. Wooden floors in saloon and wheelhouse. This is a sailaway vessel, all the buyer has to do is add a wheel.

 

 

I'm not clear what you are buying. The pictures show a fitted out boat, ready to sail away

 

A canal 'sailaway' can look like this:

 

 

Richard

 

 

 

Curiously Chrome won't let me look at that advert, giving me the following error message:

 

 

This site can’t provide a secure connection

www.dutchbargesforsale.co.uk uses an unsupported protocol.

ERR_SSL_VERSION_OR_CIPHER_MISMATCH

 

 

Fine on Chrome here

 

Richard

[Edward_M]

 

 

I'm not clear what you are buying. The pictures show a fitted out boat, ready to sail away

 

A canal 'sailaway' can look like this:

 

 

Richard

 

Fine on Chrome here

 

Richard

The absence of photos of galley and bathrooms make me think they are absent. I don't know about tanks, but I can't see a single finrad. I assume that what you see is all you get. I'd think that electrics, heating, plumbing, galley and bathrooms need fitting. I've emailed vendor. Will see. I don't know how much a fitout like that costs. I'd think 30-40k would cover the basics?

 

I really like the layout (although I'm not really sure where bathrooms and galley is). It looks like decent workmanship, but can't see if they're wood veneer or solid.

Edited December 16, 2016 by Edward Mendelson

[RLWP]

Details in the PDF. 2000 litre diesel, don't remember the water, no galley fittings, professional fitout

 

That word 'sailaway' is causing confusion in this context

 

Richard

Edited December 16, 2016 by RLWP

[Athy]

Not sure that I's fancy sailing away in a barge which had no steering wheel.

Details in the PDF. 2000 litre diesel,

 

Richard

WOW! Ideal for towing water-skiers past moored craft.

[Edward_M]

Shower / toilet 'compartment' means not fitted, I'd assume. No gas fitted, no plumbing... But how the hell so you fit plumbing etc, when all the wood has been fitted already? Starter batteries only, so no electrics yet. Looks like it needs everything except engine. It is indeed a sailaway.

 

No idea how much a full fit costs on something like this.

[widebeamboy]

the tax position isn't stated so make sure you understand that (sometimes you need to pay tax/vat) I don't know the rules personally however lots of his advertised boats are tax exempt. Maybe this is why there is no wheel in the wheelhouse?

[RLWP]

It is indeed a sailaway.

 

Not as most canal forum users would recognise the term

 

http://www.collingwoodboatbuilders.co.uk/range/sailaway/

 

Richard

the tax position isn't stated so make sure you understand that (sometimes you need to pay tax/vat) I don't know the rules personally however lots of his advertised boats are tax exempt. Maybe this is why there is no wheel in the wheelhouse?

 

That is my guess too.

 

Richard

[MtB]

Shower / toilet 'compartment' means not fitted, I'd assume. No gas fitted, no plumbing... But how the hell so you fit plumbing etc, when all the wood has been fitted already? Starter batteries only, so no electrics yet. Looks like it needs everything except engine. It is indeed a sailaway.

 

No idea how much a full fit costs on something like this.

 

 

Quite a basic mistake to make when fitting out a boat!

 

Flip it around and you may find you have hit on the reason they stopped work and decided to sell it, rather than finish it.

 

If correct there could also be a raft of other basic errors caused by inexperience.

[Giant]

If your thoughts are turning in this direction then the Barge Buyers Handbook is essential reading.

[dmr]

There are a fair few very big widebeams "continuously cruising" here on the K&A. I went past a couple yesterday, including that Huge hotel boat, so if the op really wants to do it then it can be done. I think the approach is to go into it with eyes open. Its a tolerant place here and you won't be hated by the locals but your boat (and possible you) might be seen as a bit irritating at times.

 

A possibility would be to spend summer on the Thames then visit the K&A (or GU) in the winter when its much less busy, maybe even taking a winter mooring for a month, and showing consideration for others when moving and mooring. A mad end to end rush in the summer might not be fun.

 

Not a fan of widebeams myself so just trying to provide impartial information. I suggest 12foot width should be the maximum, and I would also come down a foot or two from the 70 foot (we are a 71 foot narrow boat so know how tight some locks are).

 

Obviously my own personal view but I would much rather see a boat like Brigantine here than yet another ugly fat narrowboat with a big tent on the back. (oops hope the boat moored opposite is not reading this )

 

There are some posh widebeams for hire on the K&A, why not do a fact finding visit before you buy your own?

 

...............Dave

[chubby]

A genuine dutch barge & there are many variations is in my opinion a thing of absolute beauty . Theyre just " right " somehow . That said , that Brigantine type is also a fine looking boat . I think the OP is right to consider such boats if a widebeam is the preferred size as theyre much much better than the pug ugly shoebox type that are commonplace .

The option of using such a boat on the Thames and a hireboat on canals is the wisest one i feel . As has been said a huge 70 x 12 ft can be used on the canals , but they look like hard work .

If you can buy a lovely , comfortable old barge with some sense of heritage & history i think thiat you would love that boat all the more for it . If you can afford to fit or refit it to your personal requirements all the better . It will make an absolutely wonderful home im sure .

But , i feel personally that you might be better to think of it as " home " and use other boats for canals & go for trips on the thames with the big un and will be very much in its element - it wont look or feel out of place & i expect you ll enjoy using it much more . It could also be taken overseas onto the continent later if you get the boating bug ... i think you might !

So , personally , i think a dutch barge is the way forward , ideally a real one or a modern replica .

 

There was a chap - i think he no longer posts on the forum who brought a sunken humber barge back to life . He did this over many years , a labour of love if you like & its his home but he goes out on the canals in a little boat & so its entirety do able by yourself and your family . His boat is called Sabina H so might be worth a google , i admire his efforts a great deal .

Edited December 16, 2016 by chubby

[Northernboater]

What does 'sailaway' typically include?

I personally wouldn't go for a sailaway in your position as you have no experience in boat building and it could quickly eat your budget up if you don't know what your doing or exactly what you want.

You say you want a boat for your family. Do you want them to be waiting for you to finish it and it being a building site or do you want them to move straight on and enjoy the life? Trying to fit out a sailaway with the added pressure of family commitments will only end up in arguments and discontent with the boat never getting fully finished.

Take your time as you have a very big budget that should get you a very nice 2nd hand Dutch Barge. You will never get exactly what you want unless you get one built, however you will find something that ticks most of the boxes that you can comfortably live in.

Remember your not the first person who has had this idea. In the boom times of past there were people who had these types of boats built at stupid prices. Now some of these boats will be on the market at well under 200K, just take you time, there's not many people out there with your budget looking for a Dutch barge, cash talks especially with the more expensive boats.

Good look, take your time and research.

[Edward_M]

A genuine dutch barge & there are many variations is in my opinion a thing of absolute beauty . Theyre just " right " somehow . That said , that Brigantine type is also a fine looking boat . I think the OP is right to consider such boats if a widebeam is the preferred size as theyre much much better than the pug ugly shoebox type that are commonplace .

The option of using such a boat on the Thames and a hireboat on canals is the wisest one i feel . As has been said a huge 70 x 12 ft can be used on the canals , but they look like hard work .

If you can buy a lovely , comfortable old barge with some sense of heritage & history i think thiat you would love that boat all the more for it . If you can afford to fit or refit it to your personal requirements all the better . It will make an absolutely wonderful home im sure .

But , i feel personally that you might be better to think of it as " home " and use other boats for canals & go for trips on the thames with the big un and will be very much in its element - it wont look or feel out of place .

So , personally , i think a dutch barge is the way forward , ideally a real one or a modern replica .

 

There was a chap - i think he no longer posts on the forum who brought a sunken humber barge back to life . He did this over many years , a labour of love if you like & its his home but he goes out on the canals in a little boat & so its entirety do able by yourself and your family . His boat is called Sabina H so might be worth a google , i admired his efforts a great deal .

I think this post reflects my sentiments entirely. I've been trying to find a boat that does eveything. That isn't possible. I'll find myself a beautiful dutch barge to live on and potter up and down the Thames, and then explore the canals in a narrowboat. I don't want to contribute to the problem.

[Edward_M]

I personally wouldn't go for a sailaway in your position as you have no experience in boat building and it could quickly eat your budget up if you don't know what your doing or exactly what you want.

You say you want a boat for your family. Do you want them to be waiting for you to finish it and it being a building site or do you want them to move straight on and enjoy the life? Trying to fit out a sailaway with the added pressure of family commitments will only end up in arguments and discontent with the boat never getting fully finished.

Take your time as you have a very big budget that should get you a very nice 2nd hand Dutch Barge. You will never get exactly what you want unless you get one built, however you will find something that ticks most of the boxes that you can comfortably live in.

Remember your not the first person who has had this idea. In the boom times of past there were people who had these types of boats built at stupid prices. Now some of these boats will be on the market at well under 200K, just take you time, there's not many people out there with your budget looking for a Dutch barge, cash talks especially with the more expensive boats.

Good look, take your time and research.

Thank you. I have time, and I have alternative arrangements for my family, so time isn't pressing, although I would love to have a solution by Sept 2017 so we can move in directly, without having to rent in the meantime.

I know the risk of a refit is that I'm relying on advice and research rather than my own experience. And I have no idea how much it costs to fitout a sailaway to the standards I'd want for my family.

 

Many unknowns, but that goes with the territory - I've sold my house, my business, and am moving half way around the world.

 

All i can do is read, research and ask for help, of which I've found an abundance here. Thank you.

[chubby]

Mr Mendelson

 

I don t think you would be contributing to a " problem " . If you want to take a brigantine onto widebeam canals you can , it's completely do able and its completely fine . Its just that it looks to me like bloody hard work -& who wants that ?

If you really want to do it then go for it , but i think such boats are far more suitable for big rivers . They " belong " , they seem " right " on them & in your case that would be the Thames .

I genuinely genuinely think that you ll be better off to use it as a wonderful London home , I 'd be envious for sure , as ive a soft spot for dutch barges and even the Brigantine looks very nice - youre right to want curves !

 

Having a week on a hire boat can truly allow you to explore the canal system as you can hire in different parts of the system , visiting different parts each year and really get to grips with a fantastic element of british history and culture and enjoy the very real community spirit . A week or two , a small boat , nice cruising ,even if its raining , the odd pub meal , proper beer ( not like that aussie piss youre used to maybe !!! ) , A week or two of the simple life and when its all done , go back to a beautiful barge ... home , with all its space and comforts .

Sounds bloody wonderful to me

[Edward_M]

Mr Mendelson

 

I don t think you would be contributing to a " problem " . If you want to take a brigantine onto widebeam canals you can , it's completely do able and its completely fine . Its just that it looks to me like bloody hard work -& who wants that ?

If you really want to do it then go for it , but i think such boats are far more suitable for big rivers . They " belong " , they seem " right " on them & in your case that would be the Thames .

I genuinely genuinely think that you ll be better off to use it as a wonderful London home , I 'd be envious for sure , as ive a soft spot for dutch barges and even the Brigantine looks very nice - youre right to want curves !

 

Having a week on a hire boat can truly allow you to explore the canal system as you can hire in different parts of the system , visiting different parts each year and really get to grips with a fantastic element of british history and culture and enjoy the very real community spirit . A week or two , a small boat , nice cruising ,even if its raining , the odd pub meal , proper beer ( not like that aussie piss youre used to maybe !!! ) , A week or two of the simple life and when its all done , go back to a beautiful barge ... home , with all its space and comforts .

Sounds bloody wonderful to me

That sounds about perfect to me. It's the best of both worlds, and doesn't mean trying to navigate canals in a massive boat as a novice.

 

Lots more to research, but I think this forum has made my mind for me.

 

I'm still interested, however, in the range of prices I'd need to spend on fitting out electrics, heating, galley, plumbing and bathrooms in something like:

http://www.dutchbargesforsale.co.uk/barges_for_sale_in_holland/6247/complete_rebuild__very_good_quality.html

[Northernboater]

I think this post reflects my sentiments entirely. I've been trying to find a boat that does eveything. That isn't possible. I'll find myself a beautiful dutch barge to live on and potter up and down the Thames, and then explore the canals in a narrowboat. I don't want to contribute to the problem.

Don't get caught up with the rose tinted glasses thing with old heritage iron barges from the early part of last centaury. They take a lot of looking after and are money pits. Get something new and modern with non of the worries of expensive maintenance/preservation and enjoy it.

[Edward_M]

Don't get caught up with the rose tinted glasses thing with old heritage iron barges from the early part of last centaury. They take a lot of looking after and are money pits. Get something new and modern with non of the worries of expensive maintenance/preservation and enjoy it.

Surely, something like what I have posted would be ok? It's been stripped back, new hull platings, new superstructure, new fitout, new engine... there's not much left of the old boat...

[cereal tiller]

Don't get caught up with the rose tinted glasses thing with old heritage iron barges from the early part of last centaury. They take a lot of looking after and are money pits. Get something new and modern with non of the worries of expensive maintenance/preservation and enjoy it.

And don't lose sight of the fact that the modern (Fake) replica Dutch style boats are shallower draught,usually double Chine generally more suited to UK inland waterways

 

CT

[bizzard]

Up until a short while age we had a member on here who called himself ''Boat fan''. A chap from the outback in Australia, a place called Willywomboterabolobolo or something, who was building a huge river boat from scratch, an amazing task and of excellent construction. All his pictures of the build should be in the forum somewhere if you go to Boat fan in the members list. For some reason he suddenly stopped posting, because, I think someone made a snide remark. His last post on here was about a big storm approaching Willywomboterabolobolo with tremendous venom and we heard no more from him, whether he was washed away we don't know. He did post on here a meteorological radar chart of the approaching storm at the time with its eye poised to pounce and engulf Willywomboterabolobolo.

I did make a remark about the eye of the storm on the chart and it looked like someones underpants had been wrenched from a washing line and were blowing and flapping about wildly in the storms eye, it did look like it, judging by the little pant shaped thing on the chart. However I don't think that was the reason we heard no more from him. Perhaps he was blown away.

[Edward_M]

Up until a short while age we had a member on here who called himself ''Boat fan''. A chap from the outback in Australia, a place called Willywomboterabolobolo or something, who was building a huge river boat from scratch, an amazing task and of excellent construction. All his pictures of the build should be in the forum somewhere if you go to Boat fan in the members list. For some reason he suddenly stopped posting, because, I think someone made a snide remark. His last post on here was about a big storm approaching Willywomboterabolobolo with tremendous venom and we heard no more from him, whether he was washed away we don't know. He did post on here a meteorological radar chart of the approaching storm at the time with its eye poised to pounce and engulf Willywomboterabolobolo.

I did make a remark about the eye of the storm on the chart and it looked like someones underpants had been wrenched from a washing line and were blowing and flapping about wildly in the storms eye, it did look like it, judging by the little pant shaped thing on the chart. However I don't think that was the reason we heard no more from him. Perhaps he was blown away.

Just to be clear, you know I'm British right? I've lived in Australia for a while, but not actually Australian?

 

That, and the concept of a "big storm" in Australia is typically something that means bringing in urban planning experts to decide where to build the replacement city. A "big storm" in the UK, typically involves someone to replace a few roof shingles, mend the fence, and replant the roses.

 

I'll be the guy climbing the mast of his Dutch Barge in Beaufort 12, singing, "f**k you I won't do what you tell me", and declaring "this is why I bought insurance".

[bizzard]

Just to be clear, you know I'm British right? I've lived in Australia for a while, but not actually Australian?

 

That, and the concept of a "big storm" in Australia is typically something that means bringing in urban planning experts to decide where to build the replacement city. A "big storm" in the UK, typically involves someone to replace a few roof shingles, mend the fence, and replant the roses.

 

I'll be the guy climbing the mast of his Dutch Barge in Beaufort 12, singing, "f**k you I won't do what you tell me", and declaring "this is why I bought insurance".

He might have been British too, he didn't say. I've been shipwrecked, shipwrecked off Canvey point, We walked to the Haystack pub in the high street to drown our sorrows.

Edited December 16, 2016 by bizzard

[Edward_M]

He might have been British too, he didn't say. I've been shipwrecked, shipwrecked off Canvey point, We walked to the Haystack pub in the high street to drown our sorrows.

I get the Canvey Point reference, but missed the shipwrecked and Haystack pub reference...

[bizzard]

I get the Canvey Point reference, but missed the shipwrecked and Haystack pub reference.. in a storm

The shipwreck didn't happen in a storm, it was during a nice and gentle force 2. I'd converted an old ex P&O ships lifeboat. We'd sailed from Leigh-on-sea at 2300 hours in the dark one Saturday night, destination unknown, when on passing Two tree island and its sewage farm, just off Benfleet creek when the steering went all funny. We carried on in a jolly way assuring ourselves that would cure itself going along, it didn't. ''We were young then''. We'd cleared Two tree island and the sewage farm and approaching the eastern tip of Canvey point when a steering cable snapped sending us willy nilly out of control and to strike Canvey Island hard and run aground on its point. Tide ebbing so we walked from there to the Haystack public house for refreshments.

 

Correction. We must have started from Leigh-on-sea earlier I think, probably about 2000 hours. ''but it was dark, during the winter'', or we wouldn't have got to the pub before closing time.

Edited December 16, 2016 by bizzard