Brigantine

[ditchcrawler]

 

You've hit the nail on the head. These are assumptions based on probability. The risk is high, but in the meantime I get to live on my ideal boat in my ideal location. A worst case scenario is losing mooring, at which point I make other plans. It certainly isn't enough to stop me from having the lifestyle I want.

Thats the best reply I have read in this thread so far.

[widebeamboy]

IF you really will go and use it on the network then great, however most people in the marina don't as you settle into a busy life blah blah and the boat is the home rather than the lifestyle of many or the users on here.

 

This is what I'd be going for....

 

http://www.houseboatsandbarges.com/belgium-spits.html

 

Obviously with a cut and shut to get it into the lock!

[Northernboater]

Edward wanted to delete Lesley has no 2 brigantine which i have cruised extensively, sheffield size was the first one built we went up and down the canal at sheffield, its not as maneuverable as the brigantine and is very as slab sided, since then i would think i have been on every sheffield size jonny has built just to have a look around.

Lesley's boat is a 57/60ft and she only cruisers the big canals/rivers on the Northern network and she rarely goes out. Cruising half mile and back on a 60ft Sheffield class to and from Jonathan Wilsons yard on a straight canal is a bit different then a 70ft x 12ft on the London system. Anyway I'm not going there. There is more space in the Sheffield for residential, that's why Jonathan started building them.

[MtB]

I'm faintly puzzled why the OP wants to spend extra money on a boat that handles well then never use it, parking it permanently on a Limehouse residential mooring.

 

But I've only skimmed the thread. Maybe I have the wrong end of the stick.

 

Or the wrong stick, even.

[Murflynn]

I discovered when doing some work on it that one side was 6'' longer than the other, but it was the first they,d built.

banana boat??

 

how does that work then?

[widebeamboy]

I'm faintly puzzled why the OP wants to spend extra money on a boat that handles well then never use it, parking it permanently on a Limehouse residential mooring.

 

But I've only skimmed the thread. Maybe I have the wrong end of the stick.

 

Or the wrong stick, even.

 

I don't think you have although I think short term there might be some cruising involved.

 

It reminds me of when I started looking a year and a half ago with no experience or time aboard a boat since I was a teenager for a week in the 80's. I wanted the best boat there was, I wanted the best fit out possible and it was all within the budget I had as life had been good to me and I deserved it plus I believed it would be give me the best ROI.

 

The online research I did (on here as a lurker and other places) just showed me that it was a daft idea to buy a brand new boat, let alone one of the best and expensive boats along with a luxury fit out (which is all down to personal taste anyway) when all it was really going to do was sit in a marina most of the time.

 

I ended up buying Polish, 3 years old and well fitted out in my style. I did pay a small premium as the boat happened to be quite close by in Hackney (didn't even need to go through a lock to get it to its home mooring). This advice really was the best advice anyone ever gave me and whilst I was set on buying new and the best it didn't make economic sense to do that. I am super grateful for the people who challenged my buy new and buy the best as a first canal boat. Thank you.

 

Yes buying new gets you to choose all your room layouts, however if you've never lived on a widebeam, you've no idea how you need your rooms to be and what sizes etc so you are guessing which may not of course fit the reality.

[Edward_M]

honestly, I don't think you need a Brigantine to make the returns that you might want. I'm not familiar with why a Brigantine is better than a similar size widebeam so would clearly like to understand as the same sized widebeam is easily fitted out as luxury boat on the marina.

 

Please do not base your expectations on the price this is up for. http://www.prindivillemarine.com/ Available with a mooring spot in Limehouse. Its been for sale for ages and isn't going to sell in a hurry either as it is WAY overpriced.

Yes, he tried to sell me that boat for 250k. lead acid batteries and no generator and all...

[Alan de Enfield]

lead acid batteries...

 

Good Lord - Lead Acid batteries !!!!

[Edward_M]

I'm faintly puzzled why the OP wants to spend extra money on a boat that handles well then never use it, parking it permanently on a Limehouse residential mooring.

 

But I've only skimmed the thread. Maybe I have the wrong end of the stick.

 

Or the wrong stick, even.

Its a good point. As the OP - the residential mooring will be a base, but I fully intend to use it as regularly as possible on the K&A, GU etc. Hence my questions about dimensions.

 

Good Lord - Lead Acid batteries !!!!

I don't know enough to know if you're being sarcastic. My impression was a boat of 250k should have AGM or Victron GEL batteries?

Lesley's boat is a 57/60ft and she only cruisers the big canals/rivers on the Northern network and she rarely goes out. Cruising half mile and back on a 60ft Sheffield class to and from Jonathan Wilsons yard on a straight canal is a bit different then a 70ft x 12ft on the London system. Anyway I'm not going there. There is more space in the Sheffield for residential, that's why Jonathan started building them.

You'd suggest a 65' x 12' would be an okay compromise if I can make the layout fit?

IF you really will go and use it on the network then great, however most people in the marina don't as you settle into a busy life blah blah and the boat is the home rather than the lifestyle of many or the users on here.

 

This is what I'd be going for....

 

http://www.houseboatsandbarges.com/belgium-spits.html

 

Obviously with a cut and shut to get it into the lock!

LOL - that'll go well on the K&A!

[widebeamboy]

Yes, he tried to sell me that boat for 250k. lead acid batteries and no generator and all...

 

Don't think it is going anywhere in a hurry, paying two sets of mooring fees is just eating into all his profits.....

[Edward_M]

 

Don't think it is going anywhere in a hurry, paying two sets of mooring fees is just eating into all his profits.....

His line was that "there is nothing else available that represents the high quality lifestyle apartment on the water- it's state of the art and has the highest specifications".

 

When I asked him about every single item on my list of priorities, his answer was "you don't need that".

 

And he said it was worth 300k but he'd give it to me for 250. And that the mooring was worth 50k. Even though you can't 'sell' a mooring license - it's not his to sell!

 

I just backed away swiftly. The warning sign was that he's been offering micro-bonds on his car business to fund expansion (which you would only do if the bank doesn't lend you money). I thought I had tinitus, but it turns out it was just warning bells haunting my thoughts throughout the entire process!

[MtB]

Its a good point. As the OP - the residential mooring will be a base, but I fully intend to use it as regularly as possible on the K&A, GU etc. Hence my questions about dimensions.

 

Ah I see. In which case may I suggest you're likely to tire of steering such a behemoth on tiny canals pretty flippin' quick?

 

Given you appear to have comfortable resources my suggestion would be buy the cheaper shell but fit it out to your taste and spec then moor it permanently in Limehouse. Then buy a second boat, ideally a narrow boat to keep on say the Thames at Reading or Windsor for recreational use, because there you'll have good access to some truly lovely cruising on the Thames, K&A, GU and Oxford canals in a nimble and easy-to-handle boat still with all the home comforts.

[Edward_M]

So here is my hypothetical.

If you wanted a permanent residential 'luxury' home in London, with two double bedrooms, ensuite to master, decent size galley and living space, with dimensions to travel K&A and GU, handles well and has a decent chance of solid resale value... would you choose a 70 x 12 Brigantine or something else?

 

I like the Branson dutch barge replicas but the air draft would really limit travelling where i want to go!

 

Budget, for sake of argument 180k to 200k

 

Assumptions: mooring is secure and already organised, zero-rating, and collapisble wheelhouse are a no-go due to air-draft...

[widebeamboy]

His line was that "there is nothing else available that represents the high quality lifestyle apartment on the water- it's state of the art and has the highest specifications".

 

When I asked him about every single item on my list of priorities, his answer was "you don't need that".

 

And he said it was worth 300k but he'd give it to me for 250. And that the mooring was worth 50k. Even though you can't 'sell' a mooring license - it's not his to sell!

 

I just backed away swiftly. The warning sign was that he's been offering micro-bonds on his car business to fund expansion (which you would only do if the bank doesn't lend you money). I thought I had tinitus, but it turns out it was just warning bells haunting my thoughts throughout the entire process!

 

The mooring will indeed give you approx. £50k return (minus the % you'll need to pay on it) however like you say, you cannot bank on being able to transfer it although you probably will (unless you're a proper numpty and say hit the marina manager in the face and they evict you boat and all).

 

Pretty sure he owned/co-owned the gym (Limehouse Marina Elite) which didn't last long either as was also way overpriced for its facilities.

[Edward_M]

 

Ah I see. In which case may I suggest you're likely to tire of steering such a behemoth on tiny canals pretty flippin' quick?

 

Given you appear to have comfortable resources my suggestion would be buy the cheaper shell but fit it out to your taste and spec then moor it permanently in Limehouse. Then buy a second boat, ideally a narrow boat to keep on say the Thames at Reading or Windsor for recreational use, because there you'll have good access to some truly lovely cruising on the Thames, K&A, GU and Oxford canals in a nimble and easy-to-handle boat still with all the home comforts.

Out of interest, are there any communities that would, for example, swap their narrowboat for my limehouse or brentford moored 'apartment' for a week? I go cruising on the cut and they have a base in London?

 

The mooring will indeed give you approx. £50k return (minus the % you'll need to pay on it) however like you say, you cannot bank on being able to transfer it although you probably will (unless you're a proper numpty and say hit the marina manager in the face and they evict you boat and all).

 

Pretty sure he owned/co-owned the gym (Limehouse Marina Elite) which didn't last long either as was also way overpriced for its facilities.

Used-car salesman. Everything he said turned to dust. Wouldn't touch him with a barge pole (yay, my first canal boat pun!!!!)

[MtB]

Out of interest, are there any communities that would, for example, swap their narrowboat for my limehouse or brentford moored 'apartment' for a week? I go cruising on the cut and they have a base in London?

Used-car salesman. Everything he said turned to dust. Wouldn't touch him with a barge pole (yay, my first canal boat pun!!!!)

 

 

Err... it's called a 'long shaft' amongst the cognoscenti!

[Edward_M]

 

Ah I see. In which case may I suggest you're likely to tire of steering such a behemoth on tiny canals pretty flippin' quick?

 

Given you appear to have comfortable resources my suggestion would be buy the cheaper shell but fit it out to your taste and spec then moor it permanently in Limehouse. Then buy a second boat, ideally a narrow boat to keep on say the Thames at Reading or Windsor for recreational use, because there you'll have good access to some truly lovely cruising on the Thames, K&A, GU and Oxford canals in a nimble and easy-to-handle boat still with all the home comforts.

It is an idea I've considered. But the idea of maintaining and mooring two boats just isn't realistic for me. I know I'm trying to bridge that impossible paradigm of wanting a boat to do absolutely everything - I'm just trying to find the best compromise that allows a bit of 'home apartment' and a bit of 'take it for a voyage even if it is a bit frantic at times'.

 

 

Err... it's called a 'long shaft' amongst the cognoscenti!

And with my first pun, comes my first fail... How that disappointment stings my pride.

[widebeamboy]

So here is my hypothetical.

 

If you wanted a permanent residential 'luxury' home in London, with two double bedrooms, ensuite to master, decent size galley and living space, with dimensions to travel K&A and GU, handles well and has a decent chance of solid resale value... would you choose a 70 x 12 Brigantine or something else?

 

I like the Branson dutch barge replicas but the air draft would really limit travelling where i want to go!

 

Budget, for sake of argument 180k to 200k

 

Assumptions: mooring is secure and already organised, zero-rating, and collapisble wheelhouse are a no-go due to air-draft...

 

No I personally wouldn't buy a Brigantine, I don't think the shell of the boat has any impact on the "luxury" rating of a vessel in my view plus if it is the style I think I would want a bow space I can use to sit on with regular front doors to get out of particularly as you may or may not get a great spot to have a cruiser stern - the likely hood is that it will be against a pontoon backing onto a neighbour.

[Athy]

 

Please do not base your expectations on the price this is up for. http://www.prindivillemarine.com/ Available with a mooring spot in Limehouse. Its been for sale for ages and isn't going to sell in a hurry either as it is WAY overpriced.

That's reasonably handsome - apart from the awfully unimaginative interior décor.

I could not see a price on the web site. Are these boats built by Tyler Wilson's?

[MtB]

Out of interest, are there any communities that would, for example, swap their narrowboat for my limehouse or brentford moored 'apartment' for a week? I go cruising on the cut and they have a base in London?

 

 

But to answer your question, I doubt a liveaboard would want to swap homes. Who on earth would want to swap their delightful countryside location for a London mooring?!

 

You may well be able to strike a deal with the owner of a marina-dwelling, little used narrow boat though. There are THOUSANDS of them around.

 

And with my first pun, comes my first fail... How that disappointment stings my pride.

 

 

Lol I was just teasing, I hope you realise!

[Edward_M]

That's reasonably handsome - apart from the awfully unimaginative interior décor.

I could not see a price on the web site. Are these boats built by Tyler Wilson's?

Its a Tyler Wilson Sheffield Keel hull - fitted out by them too. asking price 300k

[widebeamboy]

Its a Tyler Wilson Sheffield Keel hull - fitted out by them too. asking price 300k

 

I believe it was a demonstrator at Crick a year or so ago and sold circa £150k as it was on here ages ago when first on the market.

[Edward_M]

 

 

But to answer your question, I doubt a liveaboard would want to swap homes. Who on earth would want to swap their delightful countryside location for a London mooring?!

 

You may well be able to strike a deal with the owner of a marina-dwelling, little used narrow boat though. There are THOUSANDS of them around.

 

 

Lol I was just teasing, I hope you realise!

Yes, I realise ;-)

 

But funnily enough that would work well for me - if someone wants a trip to london and to stay in my home and look after it for a week or two, whilst I get to explore their neck of the woods in their narrowboat... I don't see why that wouldn't work, as long as the relationships are solid and trustworthy. That would be awesome. I get my big London boat, and the opportunity to occassionaly go meandering through the narrow canals!

[Northernboater]

Yes, he tried to sell me that boat for 250k. lead acid batteries and no generator and all...

Considering he only paid £150K for it, not a bad profit if he could sell it for £250K, Jonathan Wilson Sheffield.

How much are you expecting to pay for a full fit Brigantine?

The reason the Brigantine handles better is that it was designed with the larger continental waterways in mind hence different hull design, the Sheffield was designed to give maximum living space. Both handle fine and manoeuvre well. You will get to handle the boat no matter which one you choose it's just a matter of experience and getting used to the size.

[Edward_M]

 

I believe it was a demonstrator at Crick a year or so ago and sold circa £150k as it was on here ages ago when first on the market.

As much as I disliked the price, the quality was good and can't faulty Tyler Wilson on that. It's Prindiville's issue about the markup on price. He was trying to market himself as a boatbuilder. In fact he was acting as a boat retailer. Buying a boat then adding 200% to the price.