Replace old inboard with outboard

[Viki]

Hi I'm looking into buying a steel river cruiser but it has an engine that hasn't been used for a long time (priced accordingly). As it will cost about £500 to get the engine running again, if there's nothing wrong with it, I'm wondering if it would be better just to switch to an out board, say 15hp. Boat is 32 x 9 feet. The other thing is that the inboard is 140 hp and I will be using it inland not at sea so I don't thinnk it will be economical. It's an ford mermaid turbo 4 cylinder. Does anyone know if I can get any money for it for parts etc? And will changing have other issues like effect on electrics. It will need new batteries, has a woodburner but no solar. Thanks.

[sharpness]

If you sell the inboard for parts etc, you will probably need some alternative ballast!

 

Steve

[cereal tiller]

Hi I'm looking into buying a steel river cruiser but it has an engine that hasn't been used for a long time (priced accordingly). As it will cost about £500 to get the engine running again, if there's nothing wrong with it, I'm wondering if it would be better just to switch to an out board, say 15hp. Boat is 32 x 9 feet. The other thing is that the inboard is 140 hp and I will be using it inland not at sea so I don't thinnk it will be economical. It's an ford mermaid turbo 4 cylinder. Does anyone know if I can get any money for it for parts etc? And will changing have other issues like effect on electrics. It will need new batteries, has a woodburner but no solar. Thanks.

You say your Boat's present Engine needs £500 to put right,that would be more practical than fitting a Petrol Outboard.

 

The diesel is more robust and cheaper to run.

 

140 HP is more than needed for Inland Waterway use,the Mermaid is relatively easy to Derate to it's usual stock 75 HP

 

CT

Edited December 13, 2016 by cereal tiller

[DHutch]

You say your Boat's present Engine needs £500 to put right, that would be more practical [and cheaper] than fitting a Petrol Outboard.

 

The diesel is more robust and [i expect] cheaper to run.

 

I would agree with this, particularly as Mermaid engines have an established reputation of being robust good engines.

 

- If you did remove it, I very much expect you could set it on for more than scrap value, but likely not enough to pay for the work to fit an outboard.

 

 

 

Daniel

[Alan de Enfield]

I think one of the biggest criteria for the decision is "how are you using the boat ?"

 

Are you planning to live aboard, or, is it t be a 'weekend & holiday' boat ?

 

If you intend to use the boat for cruising there are several aspects that mean an outboard will not be 'ideal'

1) Petrol is not easily sourced

2) Petrol storage on board is subject to more stringent regulations.

3) An outboard is not best suited to a fat steel boat - the prop is too small (for a start)

4) An outboard will not charge your batteries

5) An outboard will not provide you with hot water.

6) If removing the old engine you will need to put in quarter-of-a-ton of concrete 'ballast' to make up for the weight.

 

If the boat is being used on a permanent mooring (in a marina ??) as a 'floating flat' then leave the engine 'as is' and just use the mains on 'hook-up' for your power and hot water.

 

Removal of the old engine, modifications to the 'systems' and purchase of an outboard will be considerably more than the £500 needed to 'fix' the old engine

Edited December 14, 2016 by Alan de Enfield

[David Mack]

And when you come to sell, a boat with an inboard engine will be worth more than one with an outboard.

[BWM]

Another drawback of outboard engines is their vulnerability to theft, especially the larger, and diesel types. They are also more likely to be accidentally damaged due to their exposed position.

[Phil Ambrose]

So in short, keep the inboard and forget about the outboard.

Phil

[Naughty Cal]

Where are you going to get an outboard to move the boat (and more importantly stop it) for less then £500?

 

Friends of ours have dutch steel cruisers and they all have engines from 100hp to 140hp and they do need a fair bit of grunt to stop them when they have got some momentum going.

Edited December 14, 2016 by Naughty Cal

[Alan de Enfield]

Where are you going to get an outboard to move the boat (and more importantly stop it) for less then £500?

 

 

Unfortunately people who ask about changing the engines from I/B to O/B probably do not have enough experience to differentiate and would assume that something similar to this

 

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Seagull-Outboard-Engine-40-with-Recoil-start-/122260146410?_trksid=p2141725.m3641.l6368

 

Would 'do the job'.

Well it is a '40' isn't it - so it should be big enough ?. (I know the answer)

[Naughty Cal]

I know the answer also.

[BWM]

Its quite possible that the fabrication work involved in fitting the outboard would exceed the £500 budget.

[Bee]

32 x 9 and steel is quite a heavy boat, You probably would not need more ballast as a long shaft outboard would probably do the job but you would still need a 'slogger' of an engine to shift the boat and that is more of a job for a diesel inboard. Personally I would stick with what is in the boat complete with the tanks, controls, bits and pieces and make it work rather than throw out a suitable ford engine which may be in good condition inside and replace it with an outboard.

[MtB]

If you sell the inboard for parts etc, you will probably need some alternative ballast!

 

Steve

 

 

Or put the other way around, best to add the outboard and keep the inboard in place. Otherwise its a ton of work removing the engine and finding ballast to replace it with!

 

The biggest problem with outboards is the lack of electricity generation. Along with where to get the petrol.

[Viki]

Thanks for the answers. There's a real consensus here. I would be constant cruising. Good to know the engine isn't over powered. The £500 is to get it going again after not being used for a long time (owner deceased)but doesn't guarantee it won't have something wrong with it. I've been told by 2 people today that the draft of 3 feet will cause difficulties in Canals. Any Londonish Boaters care to comment?

[billh]

I've been told by 2 people today that the draft of 3 feet will cause difficulties in Canals.

Not with 140HP it won't!

Plenty of "proper" canal boats with 3ft.

Perhaps you mean difficulties for other boats? Possibly.

[MtB]

Thanks for the answers. There's a real consensus here. I would be constant cruising. Good to know the engine isn't over powered. The £500 is to get it going again after not being used for a long time (owner deceased)but doesn't guarantee it won't have something wrong with it. I've been told by 2 people today that the draft of 3 feet will cause difficulties in Canals. Any Londonish Boaters care to comment?

 

 

The thing is, them canals don't have a solid concrete bottom, they comprise mud, silt, leaves, old bicycles, guns, safes, sacks of dead kitten and quite a lot of lost side pipe fenders. All this adds up to a depth in the middle of about 3ft and often a good deal less at the sides.

 

So yes a 3ft draft cruiser is likely to be fine a lot of the time and occasionally not be fine AT ALL. A steel cruiser like you are proposing really isn't the best tool for the job. I suggest buying a narrow boat.

[Naughty Cal]

It depends where you intend to cruise.

 

We have a draft of 3ft and easily cruise the northern waterways.

 

Our friends dutch cruisers are more like 4ft draft and they cruise the northern waterways easily.

 

 

The thing is, them canals don't have a solid concrete bottom, they comprise mud, silt, leaves, old bicycles, guns, safes, sacks of dead kitten and quite a lot of lost side pipe fenders. All this adds up to a depth in the middle of about 3ft and often a good deal less at the sides.

 

So yes a 3ft draft cruiser is likely to be fine a lot of the time and occasionally not be fine AT ALL. A steel cruiser like you are proposing really isn't the best tool for the job. I suggest buying a narrow boat.

Why?

 

If the OP never intends going on narrow canals why limit your living space for no good reason?

 

Plenty of narrowboats also have a draft of 3ft.

[MtB]

 

Why?

 

If the OP never intends going on narrow canals why limit your living space for no good reason?

 

Plenty of narrowboats also have a draft of 3ft.

 

 

And equally, why limit your cruising canals for no good reason?

 

I'd say about 0.1% of NBs have a 3ft draft. The overwhelming majority are closer to 2ft.

[Naughty Cal]

 

 

And equally, why limit your cruising canals for no good reason?

 

I'd say about 0.1% of NBs have a 3ft draft. The overwhelming majority are closer to 2ft.

The OP is going to be using the boat first and foremost as their home and have already stated that they will only want limited use of the inland waterways. Space is more important for this then the ability to cruise the entire inland waterway system of the UK.

 

Lets be honest, how many people set out with the intention of cruising the entire system and how many actually do it?

 

 

And equally, why limit your cruising canals for no good reason?

 

I'd say about 0.1% of NBs have a 3ft draft. The overwhelming majority are closer to 2ft.

I think that would make an interesting poll and I believe you would be found wrong.

Edited December 15, 2016 by Naughty Cal

[Stewart Kirby]

The OP is going to be using the boat first and foremost as their home and have already stated that they will only want limited use of the inland waterways. Space is more important for this then the ability to cruise the entire inland waterway system of the UK. Snip.

In post 15 the OP said she would be "constant cruising", lets assume she means continously cruising. Because of the beam she will be restricted to the Broad Canals and i suspect the canals and navigations around London. I dont think a draft of 3ft, measure it OP dont take it on trust, will be much of a problem except some moorings will be difficult.

If its a helluva bargain i would derate the engine as it will make battery charging easier than going to an outboard.

You can charge batteries from an outboard, my Honda EF 115 puts out 40amps and happily charges two batteries.

[Naughty Cal]

In post 15 the OP said she would be "constant cruising", lets assume she means continously cruising. Because of the beam she will be restricted to the Broad Canals and i suspect the canals and navigations around London. I dont think a draft of 3ft, measure it OP dont take it on trust, will be much of a problem except some moorings will be difficult.

If its a helluva bargain i would derate the engine as it will make battery charging easier than going to an outboard.

You can charge batteries from an outboard, my Honda EF 115 puts out 40amps and happily charges two batteries.

But that engine will cost a damn sight more then the £500 to get the diesel engine running.

[Peter X]

Thanks for the answers. There's a real consensus here. I would be constant cruising. Good to know the engine isn't over powered. The £500 is to get it going again after not being used for a long time (owner deceased)but doesn't guarantee it won't have something wrong with it. I've been told by 2 people today that the draft of 3 feet will cause difficulties in Canals. Any Londonish Boaters care to comment?

I'm no expert on engines, but I do know there is a consensus that on the canals you're generally better off with an inboard diesel engine than with a petrol outboard, for a combination of reasons as others have stated. The ability of the inboard diesel to charge your batteries is particularly important for a continuous cruiser. As you already own such an engine which sounds as if it has no known problems, my instinct would be to go with that. You can expect to spend some money getting it installed and overcoming teething troubles, but should see that money as an investment because having an inboard engine should add to the value of the boat.

 

Let me offer an encouraging tale. Two months ago I did a trip as crew for hackenbush of this forum moving his boat whose (Lister) engine had hardly been used for years because the previous owner had been more or less static in Cambridge. The boat had been somewhat neglected prior to its sale, and static at Fox's boatyard in March for about 6 months while hackenbush had other problems sorted out, especially the leaking hull (!). But when we asked the engine to do nine long days of boating, including the hard work of going upstream on the River Nene, it performed well. Its worst problem was that sometimes when we slowed down to tickover the engine would turn off and have to be restarted; after the first few days this problem gradually went away, as if the work of pushing against the river current somehow helped the engine to clean itself out.

 

Finally, I wouldn't let a draught of 3 feet put you off much. Most modern boats are around two feet, but there are still maybe 200 of the old working boats moving about, and I would guess at least 100 other boats with around a three foot draught, and they manage. If you do run aground, there are many ways of getting moving again depending on the situation; reverse, rock the boat, use a pole, get another boat to snatch you off using a strong line, or increase water depth if in a low pound. Some canals have worse depth problems due to lack of dredging than others; you mention London and despite being from south London I wouldn't claim much local knowledge of depths there, so maybe others can advise about those. But most of the complaints on the forum about boating in London are not about depth!

[Stewart Kirby]

But that engine will cost a damn sight more then the £500 to get the diesel engine running.

Not arf, it was about €12,000. But i was responding to some posters who said outboards cant charge batteries in that bit of my post.

[ditchcrawler]

Hi I'm looking into buying a steel river cruiser but it has an engine that hasn't been used for a long time (priced accordingly). As it will cost about £500 to get the engine running again, if there's nothing wrong with it, I'm wondering if it would be better just to switch to an out board, say 15hp. Boat is 32 x 9 feet. The other thing is that the inboard is 140 hp and I will be using it inland not at sea so I don't thinnk it will be economical. It's an ford mermaid turbo 4 cylinder. Does anyone know if I can get any money for it for parts etc? And will changing have other issues like effect on electrics. It will need new batteries, has a woodburner but no solar. Thanks.

I am not sure how they say £500 if they dont know whats wrong with it. They may connect a battery and fuel tank, turn the key and it starts. Old diesels often do that.

 

Does it have a weed hatch or do you do scuba diving?