Gold plated windlass

[magnetman]

I've been a bit concerned by a description of a windlass in Stoke Bruerne museum. They call it a brass windlass. I'm sure it isn't and its not bronze either.

 

As it has all the right markings for a Cooke windlass (Forged iron) I am going to suggest it is in fact a gold plated Cooke windlass.

 

I bet they never even put a magnet on it !!! ?

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Photo courtesy of Ray T

[Lady Muck]

Ive a brass one, inherited it, it looks very similar to that gold one, same colour Will dig it out (currently stuck to sofa cannot move, honest.)

[magnetman]

and I wish they wouldn't say Steel for a forged wrought iron object

Ive a brass one, inherited it, it looks very similar to that gold one, same colour Will dig it out (currently stuck to sofa cannot move, honest.)

 

 

There are a lot of brass or bronze ones about but this one has the pipe emblem and also the little notches out the sides of the edge of the socket which is a feature of Cooke windlasses.

 

Ah I see - maybe its because the mould was made with the original Cooke windlass but I wouldn't have thought that sort of detail would come through. maybe it would and I am wrong.

 

always happy to be wrong

Edited October 14, 2016 by magnetman

[magnetman]

Not shiny enough. OK. bedtime !!

[Jerra]

I am going to suggest it is in fact a gold plated Cooke windlass.

Surely gold wouldn't have tarnished at all.

[Lady Muck]

Naah, mine is different, only the handle is brass.

[David Schweizer]

and I wish they wouldn't say Steel for a forged wrought iron object

 

 

There are a lot of brass or bronze ones about but this one has the pipe emblem and also the little notches out the sides of the edge of the socket which is a feature of Cooke windlasses.

 

Ah I see - maybe its because the mould was made with the original Cooke windlass but I wouldn't have thought that sort of detail would come through. maybe it would and I am wrong.

 

always happy to be wrong

 

I am still trying to complete my study of Cooke Windlasses, and am getting closer. In the meantime I can confirm that all the windlasses with the Cooke mark that i have seen also have the pipeclay mark, but there are also some which have only the pipeclay mark, are these also Cooke windlasses? all will be revealed in time. The four notches on the socket edges are an interesting feature, most Cooke windlasses have them and most pipelay ones do not, but their presence or absence is not universal. I have also seen a Harry Neal windlass which has them !!

 

As for the brass/bronze one in the illustratiion, I believe that your suggestion that it was cast from an iron original is probably correct, some of the pipeclay marks are definitely pronounced enough to reproduce in a casting mould.

Edited October 14, 2016 by David Schweizer

[Ray T]

A good while ago I bought this off eBay:

 

 

 

It was described as "brass and old."

It turned out to be one of my duff purchases as the first time I used it, it bent. It was certainly a different colour to the "phosphor bronze" ones I own.

 

It went to swell the funds of The Chesterfield Canal coffers as "decorative use only."

Edited October 15, 2016 by Ray T

[magnetman]

I had one of those years ago - and it also bent. But it had no markings. It was the pipe mark which confused me as I did not think it would come out in a mould.

 

I know boatmen had windlasses silver plated so why not gold? Or another metal like brass but just an electroplate for a bit of "bling"

 

Equally probable I suppose that someone did a "in the shed" cast brass copy of a Cooke windlass for back cabin decoration? I thought the windlasses they used for that were much smaller though.

 

I've got an aluminium bronze windlass which looks like brass but is much more sturdy. Compared with the brass one I had ages ago it is a completely different thing.

 

 

Would gold plating be durable enough for a windlass which was in use?

Edited October 15, 2016 by magnetman

[David Schweizer]

I had one of those years ago - and it also bent. But it had no markings. It was the pipe mark which confused me as I did not think it would come out in a mould.

 

I know boatmen had windlasses silver plated so why not gold? Or another metal like brass but just an electroplate for a bit of "bling"

 

Equally probable I suppose that someone did a "in the shed" cast brass copy of a Cooke windlass for back cabin decoration? I thought the windlasses they used for that were much smaller though.

 

I've got an aluminium bronze windlass which looks like brass but is much more sturdy. Compared with the brass one I had ages ago it is a completely different thing.

 

 

Would gold plating be durable enough for a windlass which was in use?

 

Cooke windlasses came in a wide range of dimensions and socket sizes (again all will be revealed in time)

 

 

A good while ago I bought this off eBay:

 

463245238_o.jpg

 

It was described as "brass and old."

It turned out to be one of my duff purchases as the first time I used it, it bent. It was certainly a different colour to the "phosphor bronze" ones I own.

 

It went to swell the funds of The Chesterfield Canal coffers as "decorative use only."

 

I have a short throw cast brass/bronze windlass, made some few years ago for the Boatman's Cabin Company (Laurence Hogg), which I believe is a copy of a Harry Neal windlass. Although it is decorative, it is also a proper working tool which I have used quite extensively, and it has shown no signs of bending or fracturing.

Edited October 15, 2016 by David Schweizer

[X Alan W]

I wouldn't have thought that back in the day any of the the boat family's would have been wealthy enough to have, or wanted to have a windless gold plated as they would not have used it, & as a decorative piece i would guess they would have preferred brass #1 Cost, & #2 they could & would polish it if was brass also the fear of having it stolen would have been another factor? But then again you never know. most of the brass ones were solid in that material & miniature & hung with the lace edge plates & brass ( Bed ) knobs

[magnetman]

 

Cooke windlasses came in a wide range of dimensions and socket sizes (again all will be revealed in time)

 

 

 

I have a short throw cast brass/bronze windlass, made some few years ago for the Boatman's Cabin Company (Laurence Hogg), which I believe is a copy of a Harry Neal windlass. Although it is decorative, it is also a proper working tool which I have used quite extensively, and it has shown no signs of bending or fracturing.

Looking forward to the full research paper David

 

I'll let you know if I see any other Cooke's or get any more on the magnet.

 

 

 

Boatman's Cabin windlasses were LG2 Bronze or Aluminium Bronze according to Laurence Hogg in previous posts.

 

The naff brass ones were a "cast of a cast" and definitely seem very puny compared with the BmC ones

[Laurence Hogg]

​​I think its one of our early BCC ones which we cast from a Cookes. It is LG2 or ally bronze, we did gold plate some for special purchases (One went to Sr John Knill), the colour is completely wrong for Gold plating even if not looked after.

 

So much for accuracy of descriptions in SB museum today!

[MtB]

Would gold plating be durable enough for a windlass which was in use?

 

 

I'd say no.

 

Gold is remarkably soft and easily worn away. As it is so valuable we only ever encounter it in small quantities so don't get a true idea of its properties.

 

Gold is roughly similar to lead in softness and ductility, and even heavier (denser).

And would wear off rapidly from a windlass in regular use.

[magnetman]

Thanks Laurence - I didn't realise your early ones came with the clay pipe impression. That makes much more sense now and I realised after I posted it that Gold would be much more shiny.

 

So probably aluminium bronze then I guess.

 

Any idea who made mine? It seems to be aluminium bronze and has the little marks on the sides similar to the 60s single socket cast iron ones.

 

Pic of head to be added. Its definitely not brass.

 

(Am thinking of setting up a new forum called Thunderwindlass )

Edited October 15, 2016 by magnetman

[MtB]

Thanks Laurence - I didn't realise your early ones came with the clay pipe impression. That makes much more sense now and I realised after I posted it that Gold would be much more shiny.

 

So probably aluminium bronze then I guess.

 

Any idea who made mine? It seems to be aluminium bronze and has the little marks on the sides similar to the 60s single socket cast iron ones.

 

Pic of head to be added. Its definitely not brass.

 

(Am thinking of setting up a new forum called Thunderwindlass )

 

 

I'd never heard of the material 'aluminium bronze' until this thread.

 

Plenty of information about it here:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aluminium_bronze

[David Schweizer]

​​I think its one of our early BCC ones which we cast from a Cookes. It is LG2 or ally bronze, we did gold plate some for special purchases (One went to Sr John Knill), the colour is completely wrong for Gold plating even if not looked after.

 

So much for accuracy of descriptions in SB museum today!

 

Which someone stole from his flat in Bathampton, along with a couple of origional forged iron Cooke windlasses..

[Derek R.]

Dare say the miniature windlasses were all brass, but most brass like full sized are bronze.

http://www.diffen.com/difference/Brass_vs_Bronze

[Laurence Hogg]

Dare say the miniature windlasses were all brass, but most brass like full sized are bronze.

http://www.diffen.com/difference/Brass_vs_Bronze

 

The miniature windlass sold from around the early 70's onwards were from two sources. Cast brass ones from Selwyn Jordan of Keays dock (very rare) and hot brass stamped ones made in Dudley for Doug Smith who sold his concern in part to what is now Central Waterway Supplies (trade supplier).

Edited October 15, 2016 by Laurence Hogg

[David Schweizer]

 

The miniature windlass sold from around the early 70's onwards were from two sources. Cast brass ones from Selwyn Jordan of Keays dock (very rare) and hot brass stamped ones made in Dudley for Doug Smith who sold his concern in part to what is now Central Waterway Supplies (trade supplier).

 

The one I have is definitely cast brass, it still has some of the casting sand in the socket!! I am sure I bought it in the late 1960's from, if i remember correctly, Stoke Bruerne Museum. I originally bought it for my mother along with a miniature decorated water dipper, but inherited it when she passed away.

[Ray T]

 

Cooke windlasses came in a wide range of dimensions and socket sizes (again all will be revealed in time)

 

 

 

I have a short throw cast brass/bronze windlass, made some few years ago for the Boatman's Cabin Company (Laurence Hogg), which I believe is a copy of a Harry Neal windlass. Although it is decorative, it is also a proper working tool which I have used quite extensively, and it has shown no signs of bending or fracturing.

 

I have a couple of these, one 6" throw the other 8" throw. As you say they are sturdy and up to the job.

 

 

 

1st and 3rd from the left.

Edited October 15, 2016 by Ray T

[David Schweizer]

You have a lot of Windlasses Ray. But then I have six, and I don't even have a boat any more.

[magnetman]

You have a lot of Windlasses Ray. But then I have six, and I don't even have a boat any more.

I have about 40 single socket windlasses in my wheelhouse admittedly two of them are Dunton Doubles (horrid but may be useable by my children when they are bigger).

 

I found one of the Duntons with the magnet and the other one I spotted in a lock when the water was crystal clear so I hooked it out with the keb

 

Before anyone asks the aluminium windlass found with the magnet was because it happened to be hooked over a bit of rebar in the cut near a lock layby !!

All other windlasses are forged iron (~25 and cast iron ~10 with 2 welded singles and a bronze one.

Not sire if my math added up there

Edited October 15, 2016 by magnetman

[pete harrison]

 

The miniature windlass sold from around the early 70's onwards were from two sources. Cast brass ones from Selwyn Jordan of Keays dock (very rare) and hot brass stamped ones made in Dudley for Doug Smith who sold his concern in part to what is now Central Waterway Supplies (trade supplier).

For anybody who would like a miniature brass windlass:

 

 

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Mini-Authentic-English-Brass-Canal-Lock-Key-Windlass-And-chain-/172383816982?hash=item2822e04d16:g:nFoAAOSwn7JYC7qy

 

or a full size version:

 

 

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/SOLID-BRASS-BRONZE-CANAL-LOCK-WINDLASS-NARROWBOAT-CANAL-RARE-/172383763260?hash=item2822df7b3c:g:Tx4AAOSwgHZYC6ic

 

and both from the same seller in Stafford

[max's son]

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This one is about 3 inches by 3 inches

 

been hidden in a draw for 40-50 years