Are single-handers the pariahs of the system?

[The Bearwood Boster]

Slightly different slant on single handers-just the 2 of us behind a single hander at Bosley a few years ago.Husband helped the single hander before sorting us out.At the top of the flight,the 'single hander' thanked Paul for his help as his wife & 2 teenage sons were still in bed...Oh how we laughed!

[nicknorman]

Did you get any sympathy from Jeff?

Yes, by 2:00 he had changed his tune from "what a lovely chap" to "Grrrrr".

[churchward]

Surely no more selfish than bullying people into going at the speed you would prefer them to go at rather than letting them past?

locks are first come first served.

[nicknorman]

Good luck with the world fitting in with your wishes.

 

So was your "example" real or not?

The world may not fit in with my wishes, but that doesn't stop me wishing it did, does it?

 

And yes it has been a real example, I recall struggling to get back to the marina in time to catch our flights, coming back down the Coventry from Fradley direction after a weekend on the boat. Came up behind a boat going INCREDIBLY slowly who was, or pretended to be, completely oblivious to our presence and was wandering from side to side (due to incompetence rather than deliberately, I think). There were soon 2 other boats behind us. I was starting to think we were really going to be struggling to get back in time for the flits, lots of stress etc. In the end we got past only because they pulled into the side to let an oncoming boat through a bridge hole and whilst they were dithering I just went past. I suggested to them that it was fine to go very slowly but discourteous to hold other people up. However I'm sure they were of the supremely arrogant self-righteous type who were adamant that the canals must only be used by people not in a rush.

[billS]

Yes, by 2:00 he had changed his tune from "what a lovely chap" to "Grrrrr".

 

Fair enough. Next time then he might ask a slow single hander if you can pass, and offer to raise a paddle in return as compensation. It will save you both a lot of stress.

 

I suspect the majority of single handers would agree to that. Those that don't deserve you disapprobation - but not this one, I think.

[nicknorman]

locks are first come first served.

So if you want to go through a lock, but I get there first and decide to tie up and have lunch in it for a couple of hours, that's fine because its first come first served? (Oh really annoying I can't portray a sarky voice in writing!)

[billS]

The world may not fit in with my wishes, but that doesn't stop me wishing it did, does it?

 

And yes it has been a real example, I recall struggling to get back to the marina in time to catch our flights, coming back down the Coventry from Fradley direction after a weekend on the boat. Came up behind a boat going INCREDIBLY slowly who was, or pretended to be, completely oblivious to our presence and was wandering from side to side (due to incompetence rather than deliberately, I think). There were soon 2 other boats behind us. I was starting to think we were really going to be struggling to get back in time for the flits, lots of stress etc. In the end we got past only because they pulled into the side to let an oncoming boat through a bridge hole and whilst they were dithering I just went past. I suggested to them that it was fine to go very slowly but discourteous to hold other people up. However I'm sure they were of the supremely arrogant self-righteous type who were adamant that the canals must only be used by people not in a rush.

 

There seems to be a bit of a theme here. Any time this has happened to me, my crew has gone to the bow and politely asked the steerer of the slow boat if we can pass. This has never been refused yet.

 

Are you both very shy and diffident in real life? It's very easy to ask people to do a minor service, and in most cases they are happy to comply. A lot of people are in a dreamy happy state on the canal, and don't realise that they are casing stress. Exceptions do exist of course.

[nicknorman]

There seems to be a bit of a theme here. Any time this has happened to me, my crew has gone to the bow and politely asked the steerer of the slow boat if we can pass. This has never been refused yet.

 

Are you both very shy and diffident in real life? It's very easy to ask people to do a minor service, and in most cases they are happy to comply. A lot of people are in a dreamy happy state on the canal, and don't realise that they are casing stress. Exceptions do exist of course.

Yes I can take that point. If Jeff had been driving and me locking I think I would have asked. But Jeff is much nicer than me and tends to avoid conflict.

 

I think the problem is that once the precedent has been set - ie he is going up the flight and we are behind helping him, it is relatively difficult to broach a different paradigm all of a sudden.

 

Certainly we have done this for overtaking on the level, but the complication arose that all the locks were in his favour and if we went ahead, they would all be against him. I think it would have been easier to ask if they had all be against him too.

 

I come back to the lack of self-awareness as being indicative of selfishness. I can only see it from the point of view of a reversed situation and I would have been very uncomfortable holding up a boat behind for 16 locks worth. I guess I find it hard to understand how other people's brains don't work the same way.

Edited July 28, 2016 by nicknorman

[Captain Pegg]

Nick,

 

You have spent five hours arguing about a bloke who delayed you by less than two hours. He has spent the last three hours in the Vine and anyway it was Jeff who did all the work for him.

 

I reckon he saw it was you that was coming. "Ooh loook it's that Telly Matchus bloke in his shiny 'Udson, I'll get down to the bottom lock quick loike". I wouldn't mind betting he had been moored by the junction for 15 days until you came along.

 

Stitched you right up ?

Edited July 28, 2016 by Captain Pegg

[billS]

 

Certainly we have done this for overtaking on the level, but the complication arose that all the locks were in his favour and if we went ahead, they would all be against him. I think it would have been easier to ask if they had all be against him too.

 

Yes - but that's why you should offer to open a paddle once you have exited the lock. That causes you a slight inconvenience, but minimises the inconvenience to the following boat.

 

It's a fair return for letting you past.

[nicknorman]

Yes - but that's why you should offer to open a paddle once you have exited the lock. That causes you a slight inconvenience, but minimises the inconvenience to the following boat.

 

It's a fair return for letting you past.

Certainly and we've done that plenty of times not necessarily in return for anything, just because it's a courteous thing to do. However we usually run into problems after a short while in that we pull ahead of the boat behind and are then unsure whether they are going to get to the lock first or whether an unknown boat coming the other way will.

[nicknorman]

Nick,

You have spent five hours arguing about a bloke who delayed you by less than two hours. He has spent the last three hours in the Vine and anyway it was Jeff who did all the work for him.

I reckon he saw it was you that was coming. "Ooh loook it's that Telly Matchus bloke in his shiny 'Udson, I'll get down to the bottom lock quick loike". I wouldn't mind betting he had been moored by the junction for 15 days until you came along.

Stitched you right up

You could be right but he was just exiting the first lock as we came round the corner, and based on his maximum walking speed I'm not sure he could have run back to his boat when he detected us coming and got through the first lock! Anyway he was from ooop north.

 

I've spent 5 hours going up Delph, going up Parkhead, going to the tunnel mouth and discovering just how low the Dudley tunnel gauge is (no chance!), reversing up the Grazebrook and Pensnett arms (TellyMatchus has never done them), going down Parkhead, stopping at Merry Hell for Markies shopping, having a couple of G&Ts en route to windmill end. All whilst posting on the iPad. In other words, multi-tasking!

[churchward]

So if you want to go through a lock, but I get there first and decide to tie up and have lunch in it for a couple of hours, that's fine because its first come first served? (Oh really annoying I can't portray a sarky voice in writing!)

Who said that was OK?

 

Oh and yes you can you do it all the time.

Edited July 28, 2016 by churchward

[nicknorman]

Who said that was OK?

You did, because I got to the lock first and can use it as I see fit and take as long as I want in the process.

[Captain Pegg]

You could be right but he was just exiting the first lock as we came round the corner, and based on his maximum walking speed I'm not sure he could have run back to his boat when he detected us coming and got through the first lock! Anyway he was from ooop north.

I've spent 5 hours going up Delph, going up Parkhead, going to the tunnel mouth and discovering just how low the Dudley tunnel gauge is (no chance!), reversing up the Grazebrook and Pensnett arms (TellyMatchus has never done them), going down Parkhead, stopping at Merry Hell for Markies shopping, having a couple of G&Ts en route to windmill end. All whilst posting on the iPad. In other words, multi-tasking!

You can always justify yourself, Nick. Fair play to you.

[churchward]

The world may not fit in with my wishes, but that doesn't stop me wishing it did, does it?

 

And yes it has been a real example, I recall struggling to get back to the marina in time to catch our flights, coming back down the Coventry from Fradley direction after a weekend on the boat. Came up behind a boat going INCREDIBLY slowly who was, or pretended to be, completely oblivious to our presence and was wandering from side to side (due to incompetence rather than deliberately, I think). There were soon 2 other boats behind us. I was starting to think we were really going to be struggling to get back in time for the flits, lots of stress etc. In the end we got past only because they pulled into the side to let an oncoming boat through a bridge hole and whilst they were dithering I just went past. I suggested to them that it was fine to go very slowly but discourteous to hold other people up. However I'm sure they were of the supremely arrogant self-righteous type who were adamant that the canals must only be used by people not in a rush.

You can wish for whatever you can imagine but it doesn't mean you will or even should get them. I sometimes wish you could be less sarky, argumentative with your posts and that I could always ignore them without reply! Oh well maybe one day!

 

OK but that wasn't this time so rather irrelevant to your OP hence somewhat hypothetical to what was being discussed.

 

It is often a factor in perception that when we are in a rush everyone else is going slowly. Hence why some folk think the world is stacking up against them because they think they only get stuck in traffic jams when they are in a hurry selecting out remembering the times in jams when more relaxed and not in a hurry.

 

We all just need to factor these things into our plans. Before I retired I travelled with work all over the place, internationally too. I planned ahead factored in possible issues to my travel plans and was never late and missed no flights.

Edited July 28, 2016 by churchward

[matty40s]

You can always justify yourself, Nick. Fair play to you.

Someone has to, usually Nick....

[churchward]

You did, because I got to the lock first and can use it as I see fit and take as long as I want in the process.

now you are just being silly.

[nicknorman]

 

We all just need to factor these things into our plans. Before I retired I travelled with work all over the place, internationally too. I planned ahead factored in possible issues to my travel plans and was never late and missed no flights.

If you are just out for a weekend you can only factor in so much "reserve time" without ending up not going out of the marina at all. It has to be a compromise not a 100% certainty. Of course we could fail to make our flights for reasons such as a tree blocking the cut, lock failure etc but the important point is that such things are unavoidable, whereas selfish and inconsiderate behaviour is not unavoidable - unless the people one encounters are selfish and inconsiderate of course!

now you are just being silly.

I bet you won't be saying that as I'm tucking into the dessert!

[churchward]

I bet you won't be saying that as I'm tucking into the dessert!

 

what? You will have to explain that one. If you are referring to sitting in your hypothetical lock you are sitting in having lunch. I have never encountered such a thing and is a completely different scenario to being slower than you wish someone to be using a lock for its real purpose.

 

You are indeed a very silly boy!

[Jerra]

locks are first come first served.

Strange I have always been given to understand that if I arrive at a lock and it is against me I should check to see if a boat is approaching and if there is I should wait.

 

Are you telling me I have been doing it wrong all these years?

 

So if I understand you correctly if I am on the lock and you are 50 yards away I can change to lock (fill or empty) to suit me?

[Captain Pegg]

Someone has to, usually Nick....

That's true but he's normally managed to satisfy himself that he's right and gone off to enjoy the rest of his evening by this time.

[churchward]

Strange I have always been given to understand that if I arrive at a lock and it is against me I should check to see if a boat is approaching and if there is I should wait.

 

Are you telling me I have been doing it wrong all these years?

 

So if I understand you correctly if I am on the lock and you are 50 yards away I can change to lock (fill or empty) to suit me?

 

Strange I have always been given to understand that if I arrive at a lock and it is against me I should check to see if a boat is approaching and if there is I should wait.

 

Are you telling me I have been doing it wrong all these years?

 

So if I understand you correctly if I am on the lock and you are 50 yards away I can change to lock (fill or empty) to suit me?

No that is not what I meant and I am sure if you thought about it rather than trying to make a pedantic point you would agree.

 

So, for the more pedantic, first come first served travelling in the same direction. ie when queuing to go up or down hill you do indeed queue and go up or down in the order arrived.

 

That does not mean that you should not obey other locking etiquette/rules for boats coming in the opposite direction.

 

OK? clear for you?

[Jrtm]

Just wait for him to tie up and just get half way up the steps then turn it then just say looks like i got here first didnt i, turn away quick flash of your middle finger at them then on leaving speed past there boat at full pelt smiling as you go.

Using this method you garentee to be out of there way as soon as pos with the smile to show no hard feelings!

You could say chero but a smug smile would work better (not to smug or they will think your taking the piss)

Edited July 28, 2016 by billybobbooth

[nicknorman]

You are indeed a very silly boy!

Quite right, when you have run out of points of argument, a resort to personal insult alway works really well as a smokescreen

 

Anyway, if I understand you correctly you are saying that it's OK for a single hander to be quite slow in a lock since it's first come first served. But, it seems, not THAT slow. Could you define how slow is allowed and at what point is slowness disallowed? Or does it boil down to "as slow as I want to go, but not any slower - anyone going slower than me is just a very silly boy."?