Are single-handers the pariahs of the system?

[churchward]

Quite right, when you have run out of points of argument, a resort to personal insult alway works really well as a smokescreen

 

Anyway, if I understand you correctly you are saying that it's OK for a single hander to be quite slow in a lock since it's first come first served. But, it seems, not THAT slow. Could you define how slow is allowed and at what point is slowness disallowed? Or does it boil down to "as slow as I want to go, but not any slower - anyone going slower than me is just a very silly boy."?

Actually it was an attempt at humour (thinking of "life of Brian") but I guess I missed the smilee. Of course your wish to puts things in a sarky tone earlier is totally acceptable and and works well eh?

 

and in turn you are right. I have got bored with a downward spiralling argument/discussion about someone spoiling your day by being slow in a lock. I am not going to get into more and more bizarre scenarios you dream up to twist understandable points to a surreal degree.

[Dyertribe]

To which I would add a further meaning: a type of dog.

 

What is an "unperson"?

A pariah innit?

[Bettie Boo]

In your opinion it is all about slowing your life down but please don't be so arrogant as to force that viewpoint on everybody else. You want to dawdle? Fine, but I might want to rush. It wasn't a matter of helping him in THE lock, it was a matter of helping him in 16 locks one after the other, and despite that it still took around twice as long as we would have taken. Earlier in the year we raced down Tardibigge in a really good time (cant remember what it was now) and had a great sense of satisfaction at the bottom. That was in April before those who take pride in holding others up were out of their winter hibernation.

 

You've touched on something there Nic; as I've previously stated, we go quite slow, both cruising and through locks, we are very rarely in a rush to get to a specific destination and just pull over when we find a nice spot that suits our requirements. We either pull over to let others pass or work with them if they are in locks directly behind us till they can get past.

 

BUT, when we are in a flight, we do tend to speed up, regardless if there is someone behind or not. I know we timed ourselves on Caen Hill and a couple of other flights we've done, keeping in mind neither of us wear a watch now. It's almost like a wee game or something. I guess we just want to get through the locks as efficiently as possible and get back to cruising.

[Ian Mac]

I asked a single hand boater a few years ago if we could over take them, and was told that like the concept of us behind, as it made them get on with the job, so we just stopped and went to the pub. We had already set most of the flight for them, and helped at a lot of the locks as well as working our selves up and taking an unplanned extra hour for Breakfast, after the first lock. It was dreadful. They must have heard our engine starting and rushed past us to be first up the flight. Their choice, but what normally takes us 4hrs instead took 7 which is taking the Michael really. Having taken another 1.5hrs for lunch after being told we couldn't pass, we still caught the boat up at the top of the flight. (Ashton Canal out of Manchester) I think this was very selfish of them., although I have always tried respected other boats choice, this in my book was very inconsiderate of them.
Having helped lots of boats through a similar flight (the Manchester 18) it amazes me that some people can just get on with doing locks efficiently and others just faff around all day. So the same 18 locks+1 Locks can take anywhere between just under 3hrs (three people including me) to 8hrs 45mins with a crew of 3 plus me. It really is quite amazing, the difference, is purely the way they do (or more to the point don't ) do things.. Most people seem to take about 3&half hours, and are really surprised how quick we have been, I always attempt to get them into a nice way of working. What is surprising is that they have normally allowed a whole day in there minds to do the journey.
One of my joys of boating is to make it efficient. I recently went up Audlum single handed, and even giving the boats in front a good half hours start I had caught them up well before the top, and by this time the fleet was coming down, so there wasn't really anything to slow them down, but some people just don't think, how else do you end up with two boats going uphill in the same pound!. The major problem is people do not set ahead, besides wasting water, its really ineffiecent. The next problem is that lots of boaters believe that all locks have fierce paddle, they don't, especially on the Shroppie and almost never if your going downhill. If you are worried about your boat surging around, use a rope properly. Its not thermodynamics or even rocket science, just be efficient, also it is allowed for the steerer to get off the boat but most men appear to be glued to the tiller, and it is nearly always the Man. They tell me they are experienced, what this normally means is they have been doing it the slow hard way for a long time.

There are times when one has to take it slowly, when its raining is one example, because you need to take more care not to slip, ditto in the dark. The art is to learn a really good efficient routine and then stick to it.
Canals are about being polite to each other that includes not holding up someone who wishes to go at a different pace to the one you have chosen. On a flight of locks most people will pull for you, if they overtake, in fact you can ask then to do so, as part of the letting them past process. I like to know what the other boaters target is because I don't like setting ahead if I've lost sight of the following boat.
Being efficient is also why I like Cheshire locks as its amazing how fast you can out pace another boat, who isn't doing things in an efficient manor.

==

cheers Ian Mac

[Athy]

A pariah innit?

Isit?

 

The practice of raising a paddle if you know that there's a boat coming to the lock behind you is a most civilised one, which I thought was dropping (no pun intended) out of fashion. I'm pleased to read that other people do it too. (N.B: but look carefully for a any boat approaching from the opposite direction before doing so. Sod's Law dictates that they usually appear round the next bend five seconds after you've raised the paddle and got back on board. Result, dilemma).

[Robbo]

We have often "carried" single handers through wide locks with little or no help and that can be very annoying.

 

One thing been a single hander and a wide beam is that I usually can't return the favour of someone assisting me through a lock or swing bridge. It's very annoying.

[dmr]

Isit?

 

The practice of raising a paddle if you know that there's a boat coming to the lock behind you is a most civilised one, which I thought was dropping (no pun intended) out of fashion. I'm pleased to read that other people do it too. (N.B: but look carefully for a any boat approaching from the opposite direction before doing so. Sod's Law dictates that they usually appear round the next bend five seconds after you've raised the paddle and got back on board. Result, dilemma).

 

This is actually a tricky one. Coming up Hatton this year the boats behind us asked us to do this even though they had more crew than us. I did in on a lock or two then thought better of it. If the boat behind is a single hander, elderly, or just slow then its fine, if we have excess crew its also fine, but if both teams are equally crewed and everybody is working well it can be counter productive.

Assuming the locks are against us then both boats should be going through at about the same speed, (though because we are full length we are probably a little slower than most). If after closing the gate as we exit I have to walk the length of the lock (twice) and raise a paddle then this slows us down and so the boat behind is constantly waiting for us rather than moving at their own speed.

 

................Dave

[haggis]

We tend to raise a bottom paddle if there is a short crewed boat behind us or one which has been helpful to us by offering to close a top gate. At the next lock I will back set if there is no one coming down. I agree that if boat crews are similarly sized, I won't do it. We appreciate it if someone does it for us so it is only fair to return the gesture to another boat.

 

haggis

[Jrtm]

Think we should adopt the bwm style of driving im here so its all mine even the bits im not using.

[Little Else]

I'm always happy to raise a paddle if a boat has let us overtake, in fact I'd much rather do that than go forward to help as I get frustrated with inefficient boating (ie not winding paddles down while the boat is leaving the lock, holding up the pawl when raising a paddle etc) and may appear to be a bit bossy.

[cuthound]

Canals are for rushing. They were the motorways of their time.

I wonder if, in 200 years time, people will be travelling the crumbling motorways in replica trucks, parking overnight on the hard shoulder as a leisure pastime?

[nicknorman]

I wonder if, in 200 years time, people will be travelling the crumbling motorways in replica trucks, parking overnight on the hard shoulder as a leisure pastime?

I doubt it, by that time we will still be in the post-Trump nuclear winter where only the cockroaches survive!

[dogless]

I am amazed by the number of people who appear to time themselves at lock flights.

 

I have no idea how long we take to do a lock. I also don't consider locks as an obstacle to be overcome, but rather as part of an enjoyable journey.

 

I would guess we aren't particularly slow as we never have queues behind us. Going fast, going slowly, being efficient......just not my thing.

 

I always let faster boats pass by as they irritate me if they are close behind. If I'm catching someone up who won't wave me by, I go the cuppa route to create space.

 

I have never had a problem with a single hander. I suppose working on their own, they have to know exactly what they're doing.

 

But it takes all sorts

 

Rog

[nicknorman]

I am amazed by the number of people who appear to time themselves at lock flights.

I have no idea how long we take to do a lock. I also don't consider locks as an obstacle to be overcome, but rather as part of an enjoyable journey.

I would guess we aren't particularly slow as we never have queues behind us. Going fast, going slowly, being efficient......just not my thing.

I always let faster boats pass by as they irritate me if they are close behind. If I'm catching someone up who won't wave me by, I go the cuppa route to create space.

I have never had a problem with a single hander. I suppose working on their own, they have to know exactly what they're doing.

But it takes all sorts

Rog

It's simply because working locks efficiently and expeditiously is rewarding, just as doing anything else optimally is rewarding. Put it another way, why do things inefficiently when you can do them efficiently? You may think you are taking the "lazy" option by just bimbling around but actually you'll be expending more energy to get up the flight than us, albeit spread over a longer period perhaps. Timing the flight transit time is a way to monitor efficiency and generate reward. But locks are certainly not viewed as an obstacle, rather as a means to hone our technique and generate a sense of achievement.

 

There is nothing wrong with having no aims in life, no schedule, no competition etc but that's not for everyone including us.

[dmr]

I am amazed by the number of people who appear to time themselves at lock flights.

 

I have no idea how long we take to do a lock. I also don't consider locks as an obstacle to be overcome, but rather as part of an enjoyable journey.

 

I would guess we aren't particularly slow as we never have queues behind us. Going fast, going slowly, being efficient......just not my thing.

 

I always let faster boats pass by as they irritate me if they are close behind. If I'm catching someone up who won't wave me by, I go the cuppa route to create space.

 

I have never had a problem with a single hander. I suppose working on their own, they have to know exactly what they're doing.

 

But it takes all sorts

 

Rog

 

We often get asked how long it takes us to do the K&A Devizes flight (which we do at least twice every year). I am always happy to tell them that our record is about 10 days.

 

We sometimes note how long a flight takes as its useful to know, if we arrive late in the day it helps decide whether to stop or push on, but otherwise otherwise I would rather enjoy boating than rush to set a record. Quite a lot of hire boaters like to go really quick, that's up to them, they only get a week and want to see a lot, but then maybe go so fast they miss a lot too, we are here every day, we are just so lucky!

 

................Dave

[Thorfast]

It's simply because working locks efficiently and expeditiously is rewarding, just as doing anything else optimally is rewarding. Put it another way, why do things inefficiently when you can do them efficiently? You may think you are taking the "lazy" option by just bimbling around but actually you'll be expending more energy to get up the flight than us, albeit spread over a longer period perhaps. Timing the flight transit time is a way to monitor efficiency and generate reward. But locks are certainly not viewed as an obstacle, rather as a means to hone our technique and generate a sense of achievement.

There is nothing wrong with having no aims in life, no schedule, no competition etc but that's not for everyone including us.

Did or do you work as a time and motion consultant.

Im afraid to me this does not sound like a relaxing interest or hobby.

Do you use spreadsheets too?

;-)

[nicknorman]

Did or do you work as a time and motion consultant.

Im afraid to me this does not sound like a relaxing interest or hobby.

Do you use spreadsheets too?

;-)

No. Although I was once asked to look at someone's motions.

 

Could you point me to where it says boating must be a relaxing interest or hobby? But anyway, physical effort is very relaxing mentally. Getting "into the groove" in a lock flight clears the mind, worries are temporarily forgotten etc.

 

Yes I do use spreadsheets. They help to keep me warm in bed better than if they are all scrunched up.

[The Navy Lark]

This discussion is an interesting take not only on the way people boat but also their attitudes to others.

 

For myself, if I want to do a flight quickly, Audlem two weeks ago for instance, I started at 5 pm and was at the top with most locks against me by 6.45. Pretty efficient and that's how I like to be. Middlewich the day before I racked up at 2.30 in a queue of 5 and it took 3 hours to do 5 locks, most of those spent helping a mixture of hire boat novices and experienced boaters. I enjoyed both just as much and no-one bothered me going slowly or holding me up.

 

To the gentleman who started with a moan, I suggest that either do the busy flights at slack times or just enjoy the relaxation and the people you meet. It seems like your partner does most of the work either way so it appears you are someone who enjoys a moan about other people.

[nicknorman]

To the gentleman who started with a moan, I suggest that either do the busy flights at slack times or just enjoy the relaxation and the people you meet. It seems like your partner does most of the work either way so it appears you are someone who enjoys a moan about other people.

Oh the irony! You are allowed to moan about me but I'm not allowed to moan about someone else. Your final sentence seems a complete non-sequitur. Anyway first post, which sock-puppet are you?

 

Anyway just picking up on your points, the Stourbridge 16 on a rainy Thursday morning is a slack time, as witnessed by the fact that only 1 boat came the other way in the whole 3:50 and nobody caught us up from behind despite the fact that we were going at 1/2 speed.

 

Jeff and I are a team, we work more efficiently when I steer and he works the locks (though going down I close the top gate, going up he goes ahead whilst I open gate/lower paddles/close gate. We sometimes do it the other way round but it's slower because I am better at steering and positioning the boat in and out of the lock expeditiously, Jeff is fitter than me (and 18 years younger) and being a marathon runner often runs between locks. Both roles are equally valuable and necessary.

 

So no I don't like to moan any more than you do, but I do struggle with selfish people. Oh and self-righteous ones too.

Edited July 29, 2016 by nicknorman

[The Navy Lark]

Moaning about you? On the contrary my dear chap, I find it faintly amusing that you've attracted so much attention from what sounds to me like a three year old tantrum.

 

Why I wonder did you not simply ask if you could pass this chap. I wonder if he is here too giggling about you and your inability to communicate outside of the Internet.

Moaning about you? On the contrary my dear chap, I find it faintly amusing that you've attracted so much attention from what sounds to me like a three year old tantrum.

 

Why I wonder did you not simply ask if you could pass this chap. I wonder if he is here too giggling about you and your inability to communicate outside of the Internet.

I'm sorry, did I say faintly?

[nicknorman]

Moaning about you? On the contrary my dear chap, I find it faintly amusing that you've attracted so much attention from what sounds to me like a three year old tantrum.

 

No, it's only been going on for a day, not 3 years. You do know that duplicate identities are not allowed on this forum don't you?

[The Navy Lark]

What are you talking about?

[Jim Riley]

What are you talking about?

 

Navy Lark, 3 posts, location Pershore, Boat name Troutbridge! Smells like a kipper box!

[Jim Riley]

If it smells like a kipper, looks like a kipper...

 

 

it could be a troll that likes a smoked fish breakfast.....

[dogless]

It's simply because working locks efficiently and expeditiously is rewarding, just as doing anything else optimally is rewarding. Put it another way, why do things inefficiently when you can do them efficiently? You may think you are taking the "lazy" option by just bimbling around but actually you'll be expending more energy to get up the flight than us, albeit spread over a longer period perhaps. Timing the flight transit time is a way to monitor efficiency and generate reward. But locks are certainly not viewed as an obstacle, rather as a means to hone our technique and generate a sense of achievement.

There is nothing wrong with having no aims in life, no schedule, no competition etc but that's not for everyone including us.

So now I'm 'judged' to be inefficient, wasting energy, a bimbler and lacking any sense of achievement.

 

You have a nice day

 

Rog