Cyclists Rant

[Wanderer Vagabond]

As a boater, walker, canoer and cyclist I make good use of the towpath and canal. Everyone needs to be aware and share.

However people may not be able to jump out of the way of a runner or cyclist, Maybe deafness or other conditions prevent it. My wife has narcolepsy with cataplexy, when surprised the cataplexy triggers and she cannot move, her body goes to sleep instantly sometimes leading to a full drop collapse. We carry on and take the risk.

As for the little ting ting bells I think they aren't loud enough to sound while a reasonable distance away. I have a rrring rrring one, a bit louder, though I appreciate the lycra clad fraternity probably aren't strong enough to carry the extra gramme of weight.

I've sort of covered this before, but the problem seems to be that you are damned whatever you do as a cyclist, which is why I've stopped using the (fitted) bell altogether. You state that you have a loud bell so that people can hear you from further away, what that is saying to a ranting walker is,"Coming through, out of my way" since you are telling them a long while before you get there to be prepared to move aside. The bell I have fitted is a single ring one so that once I am close enough to want to pass (slowly) I can give a single chime on it to let them know that I am there, this often gets the response,"You made me jump!". Now I just come up behind, get off and walk past them and then remount the bike, seems that they haven't found anything to complain about with that.

 

The other point that seems to be missed is that, as a full time liveaboard, the cycle can be the most effective way of transporting stuff. Anyone here fancy carrying a Thetford Cassette for a mile down the towpath when the canal is frozen? How about humping a couple of bags of coal back to the boat, again when the canal is frozen? With a bike and trailer the job is easy. Yesterday I took the waste oil from the last oil change to the recycling centre on the bike, how many taxis are going to welcome you with a container of waste oil? (and how many buses go to a recycling centre?). So you can whinge all you like but I'll still be riding the towpath.

Edited July 26, 2016 by Wanderer Vagabond

[Wanderer Vagabond]

exactly.

 

why walk for miles from the nearest road to a beautiful remote location overlooking Blagdon lake near Bristol, and then leave all the detritus of a takeaway for half a dozen people dumped in the middle of a wildflower meadow?

 

I had the misfortune to come across this on a Sunday morning walk.

I think that the sight that disgusted me, principally because it had to have been a boater, was a fridge dumped on the towpath of the Kennet and Avon canal a couple of years ago, nowhere near any habitation or any roadway. The only way to have brought it to where it was would have been on a boat (and it would be the only way to take it away again). My anger was increased by the fact that I couldn't do anything about it. Usually if I come across some rubbish dumped in the countryside I'll collect it and take it to the next refuse point on the canal, had I tried to do the same with the dumped fridge I would then become the one CRT would accuse of fly tipping so reluctantly left it where it was. I've already had an issue getting rid of a broken down washing machine in the past (take it to a scrap yard and they want a vehicle registration number before they'll take it, difficult if you've got it on a cycle trailer ) so I literally couldn't do anything about this fridge dumped by someone else.

[magnetman]

Quote WV :

 

....I've already had an issue getting rid of a broken down washing machine in the past (take it to a scrap yard and they want a vehicle registration number before they'll take it, difficult if you've got it on a cycle trailer,.....

 

Maybe it was a cyclist who dumped the fridge ?

[Wanderer Vagabond]

Quote WV :

 

....I've already had an issue getting rid of a broken down washing machine in the past (take it to a scrap yard and they want a vehicle registration number before they'll take it, difficult if you've got it on a cycle trailer,.....

 

Maybe it was a cyclist who dumped the fridge ?

It may also have fallen from a passing aircraft but the likelihood is probably about the same . Having gone to a lot of trouble to get the washing machine onto a trailer I'd hardly have tried to ride it for a couple of miles along an unmade towpath to dump it if I was of that frame of mind, there are a lot easier places to dump (roadside). That fridge on the K & A came from a boat

[magnetman]

I know that

Should have included a smilie on my post -sorry about that .

It was a joke based on the title of this thread. Anyway no offence intended

[sirweste]

My main reason for starting this rant was that because we have been intermittent users of the canal system, we have noticed the gradual encroachment of cyclists on the towpath. Now not all cyclists are dangerous but we have noticed this year on our travels that there are more and more who think the towpath is a racetrack which has taken away that delightful feeling of being relaxed when walking or when working boats along the canal.

I, like most people don't profess to have all the answers, but when we first stated using the canals(10 years ago) there were vast tracts of the towpath not allowing cyclists of any kind. Obviously CART has a different agenda these days.

 

Cyclist have encroached onto the towpath from your opinionated stand point. Leisure boaters have encroached on the system from the point of view of working boats. The canals have changed, they don't belong to boaters, they belong to everyone, like forestry commission land - this is one of the good things about our country.

Personally I cycle at whatever speed seems correct for the situation. I don't have a bell and much prefer it if foot traffic or other cycle traffic is unaware it's happening until I'm safely past. Safer for everyone this way and a cheerful "good morning!" as I'm completing the overtake tends to be better than a bell being interpreted as "I want right of way" in my opinion. Typically this means I'm within 3 inches of the bank side bouncing (if on the roadie) over the rough stuff to give good clearance.

 

Horses for courses, sure everyone has their own methods as with everything in life. However the OP was of the mindset that assault was the best course of action, (in 14 pages I dunno if the tune has changed) I'd like to add a caveat that this shouldn't be a course for any horse.

[Alan de Enfield]

 

 

Horses for courses, sure everyone has their own methods as with everything in life. However the OP was of the mindset that assault was the best course of action, (in 14 pages I dunno if the tune has changed) I'd like to add a caveat that this shouldn't be a course for any horse.

 

Would cyclists would move over for galloping horses ?

[sirweste]

 

Would cyclists would move over for galloping horses ?

 

As cyclists do not all make decisions from one giant hive mind I don't know. You'll have to take a survey if you're keen to know the common decision.

 

Back to the subject, when I am riding (bikes) I actually don't want the overtakee to move over, I want them to remain where they are / on current heading and I'll use the gap that's available - if there is one. If there isn't then I usually do a big skid which make people jump and that usually opens a gap up that I can sprint though.....or I slow to walking pace and politely ask if I could get by. It's one of those two.

Edited July 27, 2016 by sirweste

[mayalld]

 

As cyclists do not all make decisions from one giant hive mind I don't know. You'll have to take a survey if you're keen to know the common decision.

 

Back to the subject, when I am riding (bikes) I actually don't want the overtakee to move over, I want them to remain where they are / on current heading and I'll use the gap that's available - if there is one. If there isn't then I usually do a big skid which make people jump and that usually opens a gap up that I can sprint though.....or I slow to walking pace and politely ask if I could get by. It's one of those two.

 

Which actually presumes to impose restrictions on them just as much as expecting them to get out of the way.

 

People walking on the towpath are NOT necessarily on a straight line mission from A to B. They are (very legitimately) ambling along, watching the scenery, and are very likely to alter course to look at an interesting bird/flower, or to avoid a dog egg or a patch of mud caused by a cyclist.

 

Their use of the towpath is curtailed if they can't do those things, because they must keep in a straight line to accommodate unexpected cyclists rushing up behind them silently.

[sirweste]

 

Which actually presumes to impose restrictions on them just as much as expecting them to get out of the way.

 

People walking on the towpath are NOT necessarily on a straight line mission from A to B. They are (very legitimately) ambling along, watching the scenery, and are very likely to alter course to look at an interesting bird/flower, or to avoid a dog egg or a patch of mud caused by a cyclist.

 

Their use of the towpath is curtailed if they can't do those things, because they must keep in a straight line to accommodate unexpected cyclists rushing up behind them silently.

 

I know they aren't walking in a straight line, didn't say they were. This is all considered in the over take, along with speed and gap. As on roads, pedestrians have right of way to me. The likelihood of them changing course to look at the bird flower is all part of the consideration, however to word it as so the course change would likely occur at the exact same moment as the overtake I find incorrect in my opinion. Given that an over take could take as little as 0.5 s it becomes of low probability statistically.

[mayalld]

 

I know they aren't walking in a straight line, didn't say they were. This is all considered in the over take, along with speed and gap. As on roads, pedestrians have right of way to me. The likelihood of them changing course to look at the bird flower is all part of the consideration, however to word it as so the course change would likely occur at the exact same moment as the overtake I find incorrect in my opinion. Given that an over take could take as little as 0.5 s it becomes of low probability statistically.

 

Totally failing to take into account the time interval between you deciding to "go for it", and completing the process, which is more than half a second.

 

Totally failing to give consideration to the fact that you oh so clever tricks of finding a gap and slotting through, even if you don't hit the pedestrian, makes their amble up the canal a less than pleasant experience.

 

Totally failing to consider that you skidding to a halt if necessary is breaking up the towpath surface and making it less suitable for walkers.

 

All in all, just a completely boorish "I will do what I want attitude" that very effectively bullies the pedestrian into thinking that they won't bother coming there again (which is, of course a wonderful thing for you, because it means that there will be less pedestrians for you to pay lip service to giving way to).

 

Bring back cycle permits (charged for), and enforce against the bullies.

[sirweste]

You're making a lot of assumptions here pal, if you don't instantly assume the worst possible intent behind my words you should see I'm not being un reasonable or a bully.

 

Nah, I had considered the approach time too, but for simplification I put is as 0.5 s.

 

Unfortunately we can't all please everyone, if someone gets upset about a bike going safely past them and it spoils there walk and means they won't ever go back there the`n I think they are in for a fairly miserable time of things.

 

I dont understand the pay lip service bit of your post.

 

I have grown up with bikes being hated everywhere to them slowly being more and more accepted. In other countries they and riders are viewed in a significantly better light in my experience. The towpath, like rural footpaths are about the most hostile I've experienced simply because one group feels they have more "right" to be there than the others. I expect opinions will change further as bikes become more and more of an accepted social past time / means of transport.

 

Not convinced about the cycle permits, it would put people off visiting.

 

 

Also, a rolling wheel causes less wear than foot traffic. Also also, water and the ground make mud - not bikes.

[Alan de Enfield]

 

The towpath, like rural footpaths are about the most hostile I've experienced simply because one group feels they have more "right" to be there than the others. I expect opinions will change further as bikes become more and more of an accepted social past time / means of transport.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Maybe the name (footpath) might give you a clue as to why cyclists are viewed with hostility when using them.

 

Maybe you are not aware of the UK rights of way laws (however ignorance is no excuse), but, just to help you out :

 

Dos and Don'ts of Public Rights of Way

Dos

 

Footpaths -This public right of way is meant for pedestrians only. You are allowed to walk your dog as long as it is under your close control. When walking a dog, you must ensure that it keeps to the public footpath and does not trespass into nearby properties. Prams, pushchair or wheelchairs can also be used on a footpath.

 

Bridleways -These are meant for walkers, horseriders and bycyclists. Bicyclists are expected to give way to walkers and horseriders.

 

Byways Open To All Traffic (BOAT) - These byways are normally marked "byways" and are open to motorists, bicyclists, horseriders, motorcyclists and pedestrians. As with public tarmac road networks, motorists must ensure that they are legally authorised to use BOATs (i.e. registered, taxed, insured and MoT’d).

 

Restricted Byways - Restricted Byways are created under the Natural Environment and Rural Communities Act 2006. They are open to the traffic mentioned above in BOATs, but exclude motor vehicles and motorcycles.

Edited July 27, 2016 by Alan de Enfield

[sirweste]

That's quite the condescending post!

 

You're not completely correct though as you stated UK. Which heralds back to my original point that greater acceptance should hopefully see more rights of access opening up.

[Alan de Enfield]

 

 

You're not completely correct though as you stated UK.

 

Indeed - thank you for the correction - the rules I quoted are England & Wales only.

[bag 'o' bones]

This thread is starting to take on a slightly antagonistic tone.

 

The cyclist/walker/boater towpath users debate will always be contentious one, but that does not mean we should cease to be civil with one another.

[Jerra]

 

Dos and Don'ts of Public Rights of Way

 

Dos

 

Footpaths -This public right of way is meant for pedestrians only. You are allowed to walk your dog as long as it is under your close control. When walking a dog, you must ensure that it keeps to the public footpath and does not trespass into nearby properties. Prams, pushchair or wheelchairs can also be used on a footpath.

 

According to CRT most of the towpaths are not Public Rights of Way.

[Thorfast]

It is interesting to hear that some cyclists use bells, and some dont. A poster here states he does not have a bell.

I know it is illegal to sell a new bike without a bell, but is it illegal to not have one when you are cycling? Any cyclists here know?

[Jerra]

It is interesting to hear that some cyclists use bells, and some dont. A poster here states he does not have a bell.

I know it is illegal to sell a new bike without a bell, but is it illegal to not have one when you are cycling? Any cyclists here know?

I thought it was a requirement to have an audible means of warning of your approach not necessarily a bell.

 

The problem with bells for somebody like me on the deaf side is the single ting thing bell I won't hear, even close to. It needs to be the good old fashioned Ring Ring and sounded a reasonable distance away to give chance to use it again if I don't hear.

[magnetman]

the fact that some cyclists (posters on this thread for exampe) behave in a logical or even considerate manner around pedestrians is completely irrelevant.

 

The fact that there are a considerable number of cyclists who behave like total {insert own word here}s is the point being discussed.

 

Does anyone actually admit to behaving like a {....} When cycling on the towpath?

 

Typo

Edited July 27, 2016 by magnetman

[Jerra]

Does anyone actually admit to behaving like a {....} When cycling on the towpath?

 

Typo

Does anybody actually admit to cycling like a {....} anywhere?

[Captain Pegg]

Does anybody actually admit to cycling like a {....} anywhere?

When I lived in York in the early 90s I used to cycle everywhere like a total pillock. Always trying to get ahead of cars away from lights pedaling as hard as possible. Frightens me to think of how I was looking back now. There's a good reason we should cut some cyclists a bit of slack and that's the natural human capability to grow up a bit. Acting like a prat is a right of passage and we should wish no malice towards to unenlightened souls.

 

JP

Edited July 27, 2016 by Captain Pegg

[Alan de Enfield]

According to CRT most of the towpaths are not Public Rights of Way.

 

Indeed.

 

The reason I posted the information that was that "Sirweste" was complaining about his "hostile treatment" when he was (hopefuly unknowingly) breaking the law by riding his bicycle on a foot path.

Now he will know why.

[Cheshire cat]

I don't think bells are helpful. I have a bell but I've stopped using it because I found that when I did people would leap to oneside in fear of their lives. These days I slowly sneak up and cough.

[Iain_S]

 

 

Maybe the name (footpath) might give you a clue as to why cyclists are viewed with hostility when using them.

 

Maybe you are not aware of the UK rights of way laws (however ignorance is no excuse), but, just to help you out :

(snip)

 

UK???

 

e.t.a. already corrected in later post

 

Iain

Edited July 27, 2016 by Iain_S