Cyclists Rant

[Jerra]

Tens of millions of cyclists do not share your view that cycling is not a valid means of transport on roads or towpaths.

I assume you mean world wide.

 

For the UK estimates seem to vary between about 4.7 million and 17 million depending on who you believe. Even the highest figure isn't into the 10s of millions range.

[magnetman]

Might be worth CRT stopping everyone on a busy towpath for a day and asking them some well thought out questions about other path users. A survey if you like. Do it on a sunday then again on a Monday.

 

Why do I think some people just would not stop even if given advanced warning

I assume you mean world wide.

 

For the UK estimates seem to vary between about 4.7 million and 17 million depending on who you believe. Even the highest figure isn't into the 10s of millions range.

That's a lot of bikes

 

I was a bit concerned about the figures but I guess only fraction of that total actually use towpaths (which is the subject of this thread) thank "god".

 

Anyway 97.8℅ of statistics are made up on the spot aiui

 

Typos

Edited July 22, 2016 by magnetman

[Jerra]

That's a lot of bikes

 

I was a bit concerned about the figures but I guess it's only fraction of the total who actually use towpaths (which is the subject of this thread) thank "god".

I was a little startled in Edinburgh last week. We were having a stroll along the canal near the basin and there was a cycle counter. It showed 764 bikes had passed that point that day. It was early evening and still many bikes about at a ratio I guess of about 1:20 cyclists to walkers.

 

Two things crossed my mind. Firstly how difficult it was to walk along enjoy the evening and have a chat with my daughter owing to having to continually get into single file to let cyclists past. The second was at that ratio that was that was around 15,000 "visits per day. If we extrapolate that to say 350 days a year that is getting on towards 5.5 million visits per year. An awful lot of possibilities for accidents.

[Wanderer Vagabond]

A higher percentage of the dutch probably use bikes making the expenditure per person much more viable.

If you'd ever ridden in Holland you would see why more of the Dutch use cycles, it is a pleasant and effective way to get around. How many people can say the same about driving a car? As a motorist (and lorry driver still holding the relevant licence) I would say that travelling by mechanised transport is nothing more than a necessary evil. I don't enjoy it therefore I do it as little as possible. Where lies any potential 'pleasure' sitting in a motorway car park (otherwise known as the M6,M25,M1 and the variety of other 'motorways' I've chugged alongside in my boat, travelling faster than the traffic) there isn't any, it is just a means to an eventual end. That seems to me why a lot of motorists have such hatred of cyclists, because they find no pleasure in what they themselves are doing.

 

On a slightly different tack it was interesting in London seeing how many foreigners were using the Santander Bikes, perhaps they were hoping for a similar experience to that they have at home. Cycling in London, as in most other areas of the country is however just confusing (even for a native like me). You can be riding a cycle path that is also a footpath which then randomly disappears leaving you not knowing whether you are still supposed to be on the footpath or should you have moved onto the road. These so called CycleSuperhighways are really someone's idea of a joke. Ignoring the deaths at Bow roundabout, my own experience in Stratford, East London on one of these so called cycle superhighways (CS2) was that I was left tangled up with four buses as I tried to negotiate this cycle path, two trying to cross the cycle path to get to the bus stop and two trying to cross the cycle path to get out of the bus stop. I consider myself a reasonably competent cyclist but that situation left me thinking 'where the hell am I supposed to go to get away from these buses?'. Because it is London they like to give such things big names like 'Cyclesuperhighway', anywhere else in the country it would be a bike lane, and the one I was travelling was either designed by a child or an incompetent.

[wishful]

Tens of millions of cyclists?

 

I'm glad they are well hidden

 

Being considerate is the ideal situation. Thread title is "cyclist rant" btw

Estimates for under 18's who cycle are 5.5 million

Estimates for over 18's are below

The British Social Attitudes (ATT 0305) survey of adults over the age of 18 suggests that in 2014:

• 4% cycled every day, or nearly every day (about 2 million people of 18+)
• 5% cycled 2/5 days a week (about 2.5 million people of 18+)
• 6% cycled once a week (about 3 million people of 18+)
• 7% cycled less, but at least once a month (about 3.5 million people of 18+)
• 12% cycled less often than that (about 6 million people of 18+)

So yes, tens of millions. Next!

 

You are on a hiding to nothing trying to convince over 20 million people that they are deluding themselves in thinking that cycling is not a valid form of transport, has the though even crossed your mind that you might be in the wrong on this one?

 

I'm sure they are not as well hidden as the anti-cycling bigots.

 

And I'm glad you agree with me that all towpath users should be treated equally, with consideration and respect.

[magnetman]

I also think cycling infrastructure needs to be built. If you think I am anti cycling you have not read my previous posts sir

And do bear in mind the topic is bikes on towpaths. I know bikes are quite popular (specially in peoples sheds) but at the end of the day there presence on towpaths does cause problems and quite possibly puts people off using towpaths for other purposes like a leisurely stroll.

 

All cyclists being considerate will never happen. Human nature. I'll start quoting Ivan Illich soon

[Locksprite]

A higher percentage of the dutch probably use bikes making the expenditure per person much more viable.

The Dutch were headed down a total car culture route, but made a decision to prioritise cycling because of the effect of cars on cities, the accident mortality rate and to mitigate the fuel crisis. Until they did so, cycling was declining at a rate of 6% per year.

[magnetman]

Boris Johnson (spit) did manage to get quite a lot of relatively well designed cycle paths put in around central London. Whether people use them is a different matter. I can't help noticing they are just about the right width for a one way priority road for new Bentley's but surely that's only a conspiracy theory.

Aka toll roads

I read somewhere that a floating cycle path had been suggested (possibly Kingston on Thames?) But not sure if its feasible without some sort of charging.

 

Maybe if people adopted electric trikes and paid some money to use them they might get some dedicated routes built with electric connection built in like Scalextric?

 

Once you come off the electric bit you can pedal to your final destination.

 

That would be quite cool.

[Jerra]

If you'd ever ridden in Holland you would see why more of the Dutch use cycles, it is a pleasant and effective way to get around.

 

Two thoughts Holland is just a little bit flatter than the land round here (Lake District) so I am no surprised cycles are used a lot.

 

Second comparing motorway driving to cycling isn't really comparing two similar things.

 

The little country roads round here and most of our towns I find very pleasant to drive in. I can't think of a motorway equivalent for bikes, perhaps if it was compared to say doing the coast to coast in a day that might be getting near.

[magnetman]

Two thoughts Holland is just a little bit flatter than the land round here (Lake District) so I am no surprised cycles are used a lot.

 

Second comparing motorway driving to cycling isn't really comparing two similar things.

 

The little country roads round here and most of our towns I find very pleasant to drive in. I can't think of a motorway equivalent for bikes, perhaps if it was compared to say doing the coast to coast in a day that might be getting near.

Yes the same thing occurred to me if Wanderer Vagabond is not enjoying driving s/he is obviously driving in the wrong places!

 

Ironically motorways would probably be an ideal place for bicycle lanes because there is extra land available and the route is direct.

 

Would need proper designing though I was driving on the M2/(or maybe A2) near Rochester the other day when i saw brake lights and a vehicle swerving several cars ahead of me and suddenly a plastic rubbish bin appeared in front of me. Hemmed in my other traffic I had to hit it but managed to get over a bit and push it off to the side. Several seconds afterwards I noticed a cyclist on the hard shoulder

 

If they did put bike lanes in I think it would be worth putting in a small fence or a high kerb.

Edited July 22, 2016 by magnetman

[Murflynn]

Estimates for under 18's who cycle are 5.5 million

Estimates for over 18's are below

The British Social Attitudes (ATT 0305) survey of adults over the age of 18 suggests that in 2014:

• 4% cycled every day, or nearly every day (about 2 million people of 18+)
• 5% cycled 2/5 days a week (about 2.5 million people of 18+)
• 6% cycled once a week (about 3 million people of 18+)
• 7% cycled less, but at least once a month (about 3.5 million people of 18+)
• 12% cycled less often than that (about 6 million people of 18+)

So yes, tens of millions. Next!

 

You are on a hiding to nothing trying to convince over 20 million people that they are deluding themselves in thinking that cycling is not a valid form of transport, has the though even crossed your mind that you might be in the wrong on this one?

 

I'm sure they are not as well hidden as the anti-cycling bigots.

 

And I'm glad you agree with me that all towpath users should be treated equally, with consideration and respect.

but you said 'Tens of millions of cyclists do not share your view that cycling is not a valid means of transport on roads or towpaths. ' You didn't insert the word 'either' before 'roads'.

 

that implies that tens of millions of cyclists do not share the view that that cycling is not a valid means of transport on towpaths, which is patently a load of old codswallop.

 

simple solution, bearing in mind that all water-borne canal users including boats are subject to a speed limit.

do the same for towpath users.

8mph seems over-generous.

[wishful]

but you said 'Tens of millions of cyclists do not share your view that cycling is not a valid means of transport on roads or towpaths. ' You didn't insert the word 'either' before 'roads'.

 

that implies that tens of millions of cyclists do not share the view that that cycling is not a valid means of transport on towpaths, which is patently a load of old codswallop.

 

simple solution, bearing in mind that all water-borne canal users including boats are subject to a speed limit.

do the same for towpath users.

8mph seems over-generous.

Don't be ridiculous. The meaning is perfectly clear and your suggested inclusion is wholly redundant.

[Jerra]

The meaning is perfectly clear

Of course it is. It means more than 19,999,999 as a minimum. Otherwise you don't have tens plural.

[wishful]

suddenly a plastic rubbish bin appeared in front of me. Hemmed in my other traffic I had to hit it

 

Imagine if that had been a pedestrian, a child maybe. Or even a downed cyclist.

 

Would you still have hit him/her?

[magnetman]

 

Imagine if that had been a pedestrian, a child maybe. Or even a downed cyclist.

 

Would you still have hit him/her?

Probably as I was in the second lane of 4 lanes on a motorway with other vehicles on both sides. If a person had been there it would be a very strange incident and they would definitely not survive long.

 

Ah. Got it

 

:off topic:

 

Apologies

Edited July 22, 2016 by magnetman

[Murflynn]

Don't be ridiculous. The meaning is perfectly clear and your suggested inclusion is wholly redundant.

so you really believe that 20 million cyclists have an opinion about cycling on towpaths?

if that is not the case then why did you mention towpaths in your ambiguous and ill-thought-out post??

most of those 20 million have rarely ever seen a canal, let alone ridden on a canal towpath.

 

as I said, put a speed limit on all towpath users. 8mph is fast enough for casual joggers and recreational family bikers - the rest of them can go find a racetrack to pursue their sport.

[gazza]

so you really believe that 20 million cyclists have an opinion about cycling on towpaths?

if that is not the case then why did you mention towpaths in your ambiguous and ill-thought-out post??

most of those 20 million have rarely ever seen a canal, let alone ridden on a canal towpath.

 

as I said, put a speed limit on all towpath users. 8mph is fast enough for casual joggers and recreational family bikers - the rest of them can go find a racetrack to pursue their sport.

Totally agree.

 

 

 

Although talking sense on this thread is a lost cause I'm afraid, I've had more sensible debate over hunting with members of our local hunt - those buggers aren't anywhere near as one eyed as our cycling members on here.

[Drayke]

so you really believe that 20 million cyclists have an opinion about cycling on towpaths?

if that is not the case then why did you mention towpaths in your ambiguous and ill-thought-out post??

most of those 20 million have rarely ever seen a canal, let alone ridden on a canal towpath.

 

as I said, put a speed limit on all towpath users. 8mph is fast enough for casual joggers and recreational family bikers - the rest of them can go find a racetrack to pursue their sport.

Nice one have a green thingy.

[magnetman]

Yes but how can a speed limit be enforced.

 

I am 100%,in favour of it but without removing bikes completely I can't see it happening. I suggested volunteers to record bicycle time taken between bridges but would anyone do that job without being paid? CRT seem to be keen on volunteers I noticed.

[wishful]

so you really believe that 20 million cyclists have an opinion about cycling on towpaths?

if that is not the case then why did you mention towpaths in your ambiguous and ill-thought-out post??

most of those 20 million have rarely ever seen a canal, let alone ridden on a canal towpath.

 

as I said, put a speed limit on all towpath users. 8mph is fast enough for casual joggers and recreational family bikers - the rest of them can go find a racetrack to pursue their sport.

No, it is perfectly clear as it stands.

 

I mentioned towpaths, at the risk of stating the obvious, because you will find at the top of the page reference to canalworld.

 

What reliable evidence have you of your fanciful assertion that most of those 20 million have rarely ever seen a canal?

 

I look forward to seeing this...

[Drayke]

Yes but how can a speed limit be enforced.

 

 

Like a lot of the roads ruddy great big potholes.

[magnetman]

That's better than boaters standing holding centre lines

[Jerra]

Yes but how can a speed limit be enforced

.As I suggested earlier volunteers with speed guns to identify if/where there is a problem then CRT respond by a bit of policing trying to educate cyclists (and possibly runners). When that fails install "cycle calming features, which I am certain can be made and installed in such a way as to be vandal proof.

 

I suspect when this had happened in a few places the message would soon spread.

[magnetman]

.As I suggested earlier volunteers with speed guns to identify if/where there is a problem then CRT respond by a bit of policing trying to educate cyclists (and possibly runners). When that fails install "cycle calming features, which I am certain can be made and installed in such a way as to be vandal proof.

 

I suspect when this had happened in a few places the message would soon spread.

Trouble is that the cyclists have quite a powerful lobby and I suspect that if cycle calming measures were suggested they would not actually be implemented due to pressure from cycle user groups or sustrans. I think this happened in Islington in London by the lock where there is a gradient leading to fast moving bike issues. The chicane was not installed because cyclists objected to it <this may not be accurate so don't have a go at me if I got it wrong>

[Jerra]

Trouble is that the cyclists have quite a powerful lobby and I suspect that if cycle calming measures were suggested they would not actually be implemented due to pressure from cycle user groups or sustrans. I think this happened in Islington in London by the lock where there is a gradient leading to fast moving bike issues. The chicane was not installed because cyclists objected to it <this may not be accurate so don't have a go at me if I got it wrong>

The CRT have to make it clear before they go into any arrangements with the likes of Sustrans that there must be cyclist calming measures. Something will have to be done eventually or CRT will end up not attracting the wide range of the public they are supposed to be attracting.