Reg Number conundrum

[RufusR]

Ok Sorry in advance this is a bit trainspotterish but it has been bugging me in a sad git sort of way so I thought I would ask .

 

how do boat regsitration numbers work and is their any link to a boats age ?

 

I ask as I read on here that a boat with a 5 digit number in the 47000's was about right for a 1990 age but our last boat was 1972 and was registered in the 62000's and my in laws boat is 1980 and is regsitered in the 65000,s

 

My boat is 2008 and has a 6 digit code starting 5 ( like many newer boats ) and is 517xxx , the newest boats seem to be 523XXX , When did 6 digit codes start and when did ones beginning 5 start and is there any relation to numbers and age ? or are they just sequential and how do the old 5 digit codes work age wise as they seem all over the place .

 

As said I clearly have to much thinking time and its a bit sad but its bugging me

[nicknorman]

Ok Sorry in advance this is a bit trainspotterish but it has been bugging me in a sad git sort of way so I thought I would ask .

 

how do boat regsitration numbers work and is their any link to a boats age ?

 

I ask as I read on here that a boat with a 5 digit number in the 47000's was about right for a 1990 age but our last boat was 1972 and was registered in the 62000's and my in laws boat is 1980 and is regsitered in the 65000,s

 

My boat is 2008 and has a 6 digit code starting 5 ( like many newer boats ) and is 517xxx , the newest boats seem to be 523XXX , When did 6 digit codes start and when did ones beginning 5 start and is there any relation to numbers and age ? or are they just sequential and how do the old 5 digit codes work age wise as they seem all over the place .

 

As said I clearly have to much thinking time and its a bit sad but its bugging me

As far as I know the 6 digit ones at least are sequential. However one should bear in mind that it relates to when the boat was registered with BW/CRT and not necessarily when it was built. A boat with 523xxx might have been languishing on the Thames for 20 years!

[mayalld]

Ok Sorry in advance this is a bit trainspotterish but it has been bugging me in a sad git sort of way so I thought I would ask .

 

how do boat regsitration numbers work and is their any link to a boats age ?

 

I ask as I read on here that a boat with a 5 digit number in the 47000's was about right for a 1990 age but our last boat was 1972 and was registered in the 62000's and my in laws boat is 1980 and is regsitered in the 65000,s

 

My boat is 2008 and has a 6 digit code starting 5 ( like many newer boats ) and is 517xxx , the newest boats seem to be 523XXX , When did 6 digit codes start and when did ones beginning 5 start and is there any relation to numbers and age ? or are they just sequential and how do the old 5 digit codes work age wise as they seem all over the place .

 

As said I clearly have to much thinking time and its a bit sad but its bugging me

 

5 digit numbers were all over the place.

 

Basically, when numbers were introduced in 1980, BW took delivery of lots of boxes of pre-made plates, some metal and some vinyl.

 

They made no effort to open the boxes in numerical order, and as a result, whilst a given number can be matched back to a year, there is no logic to the allocations.

 

Anything that is older than 1980 was first issued a number in 1980 in any case.

 

6 digit numbers in the 1xxxxx (vinyl) and 5xxxxx (metal) ranges came along in around 2000 and are broadly sequential. I say broadly, because we registered in April 2004 with the form going to Watford and got 510xxx whilst the next boat that was launched by the same builders was registered a month later with a local office and got 509xxx.

[RufusR]

 

5 digit numbers were all over the place.

 

Basically, when numbers were introduced in 1980, BW took delivery of lots of boxes of pre-made plates, some metal and some vinyl.

 

They made no effort to open the boxes in numerical order, and as a result, whilst a given number can be matched back to a year, there is no logic to the allocations.

 

Anything that is older than 1980 was first issued a number in 1980 in any case.

 

6 digit numbers in the 1xxxxx (vinyl) and 5xxxxx (metal) ranges came along in around 2000 and are broadly sequential. I say broadly, because we registered in April 2004 with the form going to Watford and got 510xxx whilst the next boat that was launched by the same builders was registered a month later with a local office and got 509xxx.

 

LOL that explains a lot and there was me thinking there must be a logic to it like car registrations , So one thing that has been answered then is that any boat with a 6 digit number was registered after 2000 ? although may have been made before if on EA river etc etc , Why were vinyl numbers a different sequence ? I have seen a few 1 XXXXX boats but not many most being 5XXXXX

 

I am guessing that there is no logic there either lol

[mayalld]

 

LOL that explains a lot and there was me thinking there must be a logic to it like car registrations , So one thing that has been answered then is that any boat with a 6 digit number was registered after 2000 ? although may have been made before if on EA river etc etc , Why were vinyl numbers a different sequence ? I have seen a few 1 XXXXX boats but not many most being 5XXXXX

 

I am guessing that there is no logic there either lol

 

I believe that the logic to the separate sequences is simply around the economics of plate production, and the practicalities of issuing new numbers.

 

Whilst replacement plates can be produced on request (and can be produced in the "other" style), producing 1-off plates costs more than producing a sequential batch.

 

So, when issuing brand new registrations, they just want to use the next available number and have the plates ready to issue. Separate sequences for the two styles makes a lot of sense.

[Alway Swilby]

I had in my mind that 1xxxxx numbers are issued to plastic boats and 5xxxxx to steel boats. However I may be completely incorrect.

[RufusR]

I had in my mind that 1xxxxx numbers are issued to plastic boats and 5xxxxx to steel boats. However I may be completely incorrect.

 

Nah got one on our mooring numbered 1xxxx and is steel narrowboat ( very rusty so def not plastic lol ) and seen at least 3 others in the locality all steel narrows

[Jim Riley]

Prior to 1968 boats were un numbered (by BW), any boat on the water recieved a number then, so while my boat is of unknown age and provenance it was Registered in 1968,number 63907.

[RufusR]

Prior to 1968 boats were un numbered (by BW), any boat on the water recieved a number then, so while my boat is of unknown age and provenance it was Registered in 1968,number 63907.

 

this is typical of crazy numbering sequence boats built in 1990's regestered at 40XXX where as yours is 63907 reg in 1968 my in laws is 65XXX and our old one 1972 62XXX makes no sense .. lots of random plates coming from unsequenced boxes since 1980 makes some sense but 1968 reg in 6XXXX doesnt make a lot of sense .. BW just liked to confuse everyone me thinks

[Keeping Up]

They weren't exactly all over the place. Originally BW issued numbers in several different ranges of 10,000 including 6xxxx for steel narrowboats. Many of this range were issued to existing boats, and then to new boats. Then when they ran out of 6xxxx numbers they went on to 7xxxx numbers when they ran out they couldn't go to 8xxxx numbers because they had already allocated them to (IIRC) their own work boats. Therefore they went back to 4xxxx and then carried on to the 5xxxx series after which they caught up with themselves and decided to introduce the 6 digit 5xxxxxx range. So yes you can use the numbers to estimate the age (except that as mentioned it may have been unregistered with BW or CRT for years before that), it isn't completely random except that within a 10,000 block many sub-blocks were allocated randomly by geographical location.

 

I can't remember the years that each 10,000 block started, although it has been posted on the Forum in the past.

 

My own boat has a 5 digit number beginning with 5. I love it when giving the number to CRT over the phone, and after 5 digits they ask me for the 6th. When I tell them there are no more digits they often have to start their computer screen over again but inserting a leading zero

[Alan de Enfield]

Generally (Normally) GRP boats start with a 1

 

Ours does and it was only registered last year.

Boat Registration Number By Date.doc

[Athy]

However one should bear in mind that it relates to when the boat was registered with BW/CRT and not necessarily when it was built. A boat with 523xxx might have been languishing on the Thames for 20 years!

Yes, indeed one should. Trojan is no. 518430, which fits into the sequence around 2010. But she was launched in 2006, then spent the next few years "languishing" at the end of our garden. So she received her number only when she went to languish moor on BW waters.

[mayalld]

Prior to 1968 boats were un numbered (by BW), any boat on the water recieved a number then, so while my boat is of unknown age and provenance it was Registered in 1968,number 63907.

 

1968??

 

All the information that I have says that numbers were first issued in 1980/81

 

63907 is indeed from the initial batch

[RufusR]

They weren't exactly all over the place. Originally BW issued numbers in several different ranges of 10,000 including 6xxxx for steel narrowboats. Many of this range were issued to existing boats, and then to new boats. Then when they ran out of 6xxxx numbers they went on to 7xxxx numbers when they ran out they couldn't go to 8xxxx numbers because they had already allocated them to (IIRC) their own work boats. Therefore they went back to 4xxxx and then carried on to the 5xxxx series after which they caught up with themselves and decided to introduce the 6 digit 5xxxxxx range. So yes you can use the numbers to estimate the age (except that as mentioned it may have been unregistered with BW or CRT for years before that), it isn't completely random except that within a 10,000 block many sub-blocks were allocated randomly by geographical location.

 

I can't remember the years that each 10,000 block started, although it has been posted on the Forum in the past.

 

My own boat has a 5 digit number beginning with 5. I love it when giving the number to CRT over the phone, and after 5 digits they ask me for the 6th. When I tell them there are no more digits they often have to start their computer screen over again but inserting a leading zero

 

Good info and explains alot thanks , I couldnt get my head around why 6XXXX boats seemed older than 4XXXX boats but this makes some perverted sense . with the six digit numbers going up in 10k blocks does that really mean 23k boats have been registered since 2000 ? thats a lot of boats . with all the previous to 2000 boats that says that about 65k boats have been regsitered since 1980 .. where are they alll ? last I saw there were about 30k odd on the cut ... and dont tell me London lol

[Horace42]

From what has been said, tt seems as thought there is no strict logical sequence to the issue of boat numbers in an historical sense.

But I guess there is only one unique number per boat.

Mine is 66787 . Does anybody else have a boat with this number?

[Alan de Enfield]

 

Mine is 66787 . Does anybody else have a boat with this number?

 

So I reckon that is 1980 or before.

[RufusR]

 

So I reckon that is 1980 or before.

 

My inlaws boat was built in 1980 and is 65XXX so this may mean his boat is 1981 ish unless it was registered a while after it was built

[Horace42]

 

So I reckon that is 1980 or before.

Yes! but exactly when I can't say. My boat is ex hire boat from Evesham Marina (now long gone) made by Fenmatch Circa 1982 sold to me as 5 years old in 1987. But it could have been older because the BL engine in was a 1979 model. I don't think boat builders buy engines 3 years before the need them!

So 1980 is about right - but it could have been limited to the Avon for a couple of years before getting a BWB number plate.

[Horace42]

 

My inlaws boat was built in 1980 and is 65XXX so this may mean his boat is 1981 ish unless it was registered a while after it was built

That ties up! The 'age' of my boat when I bought it was something the 'owner' prevaricated over.

A second hand boat being sold as 5 years old was dearer than a boat 8 years old. The 1982 date 'claimed' was probably the date of the BWB registration. That makes sense.

But in reality my boat has to be circa 1979 in real age to match the engine date.

[Horace42]

PS: to previous posts. What is the real age of a boat?

The day they started building?

The day they finished? Fully fitted out.

The day it was launched? Shell only maybe

The day it was licensed?

 

Just wondered.

[RufusR]

That ties up! The 'age' of my boat when I bought it was something the 'owner' prevaricated over.

A second hand boat being sold as 5 years old was dearer than a boat 8 years old. The 1982 date 'claimed' was probably the date of the BWB registration. That makes sense.

But in reality my boat has to be circa 1979 in real age to match the engine date.

as said if it was a evesham hire boat it may have been river regisitered for several years before . interestingly , I began my boating in an evesham hire boat in 1979 with my parents and grandparents , I was 13 , We travelled up the avon and onto the stratford canal I remember the stratford being in a shocking state back then most locks had only one paddle partially working IIRC at best and it was over grown and full of trollys etc .. I would not be surprised if most hirers stuck to the river .

 

There is still a marina at Evesham as we nearly bought a boat from them last year though they dont hire anymore .

PS: to previous posts. What is the real age of a boat?

The day they started building?

The day they finished? Fully fitted out.

The day it was launched? Shell only maybe

The day it was licensed?

 

Just wondered.

 

Well our shell was built in 2007 but the fitout was not complete until may 2008 ( in time for Crick show as was show boat ) , it was registered just before the show so is down as 2008 so i am guessing reg is when fully fitted and let loose on the canal but in reality I guess its when you do it as could be done earlier I guess

[J R ALSOP]

A total confusion to me has been solved, for those who do not know me I am a Boat Safety Examiner, I know how the index numbers work, Numbers starting with a 1 are issued to Fibre glass type boats. Boats starting with 4 are CR&T craft. Imagine my surprise when I saw a wide beam style of boat launched at Watford, the owner told me his number started with a 1, I told him he must be mistaken,

he then produced the peel of back number to attach to his boat. I thought something must be wrong so in my BSS role I phoned craft licensing. This is where it got interesting, if the owner was asked if they wanted metal or plastic numbers. If they wanted plastic they got ones starting with 1 or if metal ones starting with 5.

I think someone at craft licensing have got confused with plastic boats and plastic licenses.

[David Mack]

But I guess there is only one unique number per boat.

 

But a boat can have more than one number at different points in its life, especially if it moves off CRT waters for a while, then returns and is registered afresh.

 

Fulbourne was accidentally given a new number some years ago - which caused some confusion with the enforcement folk until it was all resolved. You can still see both listings on the canalplan boat list.

[Ex Brummie]

I believe the 1****** series were reserved for cruisers. Some got issued to steel narrowboats because someone at BW confused cruisers with cruiser stern. My observations seem to bear this out.

[Athy]

But a boat can have more than one number at different points in its life, especially if it moves off CRT waters for a while, then returns and is registered afresh.

 

 

Yes. For example the Springer which I owned a couple of years ago had both BW and Bridgewater Canal number plates. It had obviously spent its younger years on the Bridgewater, as the BW number was far too recent for the boat which had been built in 1987.