CRTs latest review of license renewals, enforcement update etc

[Alan de Enfield]

 

No, he's saying not all boats without a home mooring are liveaboards

 

Richard

 

Nowhere that I can see actually states that they were 'liveaboards'.

They were boats without a home mooring, with a licence issued against that declaration, that did not move sufficiently to 'satisfy the board'

 

It is irrelevant if they are liveaboards or not.

[jenlyn]

Nowhere that I can see actually states that they were 'liveaboards'.

They were boats without a home mooring, with a licence issued against that declaration, that did not move sufficiently to 'satisfy the board'

 

It is irrelevant if they are liveaboards or not.

It's far from irrelevant. If the numbers of those boats increase, the amount of 14 day mooring in some areas will become controversial, as it has done in some areas of London. Better to address it now, pinch it in the bud before it becomes the "new hot issue".

Unoccupied boats will tend to stop for 14 days, and frequent a small area, especially in the winter months. As (or if) this becomes an option when considering boat ownership, it could see an increase in people choosing "Cc" over a marina mooring.

[MtB]

 

No, he's saying not all boats without a home mooring are liveaboards

 

Richard

 

 

That strikes me as the understatement of the year. I'd say about half, possibly more, of the CCers around here are not liveaboards.

 

What's the rough proportion in the midlands?

[RLWP]

 

 

That strikes me as the understatement of the year. I'd say about half, possibly more, of the CCers around here are not liveaboards.

 

What's the rough proportion in the midlands?

 

The same, or probably more so. It seems to be fashionable to knock 'bridge shufflers' and other such disparaging terms. And as there are real people living on CCing boats they can form identifiable groups who express views

 

There are no people on these empty boats and no group representing them, so they seem to go unnoticed by campaigning groups

 

Richard

[Alan de Enfield]

It's far from irrelevant. If the numbers of those boats increase, the amount of 14 day mooring in some areas will become controversial, as it has done in some areas of London. Better to address it now, pinch it in the bud before it becomes the "new hot issue".

Unoccupied boats will tend to stop for 14 days, and frequent a small area, especially in the winter months. As (or if) this becomes an option when considering boat ownership, it could see an increase in people choosing "Cc" over a marina mooring.

 

I disagree - a boat without a home mooring is allowed to stop for 14 days before it must move on (to comply with its licence conditions)

You appear to be proposing a two-tier system where CCers who liveaboard can be allowed to stay for the 14 days (if they so wish) whilst CCers who are leisure boaters must move on after some shorter period.

 

Surely - both boaters have the same 'rights' and suffer he same enforcement if they do not do what they agreed to do in their declaration. (ie stay in a small area, or overstay)

[jenlyn]

 

I disagree - a boat without a home mooring is allowed to stop for 14 days before it must move on (to comply with its licence conditions)

You appear to be proposing a two-tier system where CCers who liveaboard can be allowed to stay for the 14 days (if they so wish) whilst CCers who are leisure boaters must move on after some shorter period.

 

Surely - both boaters have the same 'rights' and suffer he same enforcement if they do not do what they agreed to do in their declaration. (ie stay in a small area, or overstay)

Your making things up now, so I will leave you to it.

[MtB]

 

The same, or probably more so. It seems to be fashionable to knock 'bridge shufflers' and other such disparaging terms. And as there are real people living on CCing boats they can form identifiable groups who express views

 

There are no people on these empty boats and no group representing them, so they seem to go unnoticed by campaigning groups

 

Richard

 

 

A small clique of liveaboard CCers on here coined and use the term 'Dumpers'. Bridge shufflers seems less judgemental as it's what they do.

 

They also compete with CCers for the most convenient mooring spots which is fair enough, even though irritating to see empty boats occupying the best spaces sometimes.

Edited March 18, 2016 by Mike the Boilerman

[bassplayer]

 

 

That strikes me as the understatement of the year. I'd say about half, possibly more, of the CCers around here are not liveaboards.

 

What's the rough proportion in the midlands?

How do you define a CC'er liveaboard? It could be argued we all are when we are on the boat and dumpers when we are off the boat.

 

Or is it someone who doesn't have anywhere else to live?

[RLWP]

 

 

A small clique of liveaboard CCers on here coined and use the term 'Dumpers'. Bridge shufflers seems less judgemental.

 

Divide and rule

 

Richard

[Tuscan]

I disagree - a boat without a home mooring is allowed to stop for 14 days before it must move on (to comply with its licence conditions)

You appear to be proposing a two-tier system where CCers who liveaboard can be allowed to stay for the 14 days (if they so wish) whilst CCers who are leisure boaters must move on after some shorter period.

 

Surely - both boaters have the same 'rights' and suffer he same enforcement if they do not do what they agreed to do in their declaration. (ie stay in a small area, or overstay)

 

I think the point that Jenlyn is making that both live aboard boaters and boaters with a home mooring are inconvenienced if more and more boats are just left on popular towpath moorings. However the enforcement process is different in that CRT can enforce against boats that are not lived on much quicker if they are judged not to cruise suffiently to satisfy them.

[Alan de Enfield]

Your making things up now, so I will leave you to it.

 

What am I 'making up' ?

 

You suggested that the situation of unattended boats being left for 14 days needed 'addressing'.

What do you then mean by 'addressing'

I think the point that Jenlyn is making that both live aboard boaters and boaters with a home mooring are inconvenienced if more and more boats are just left on popular towpath moorings. However the enforcement process is different in that CRT can enforce against boats that are not lived on much quicker if they are judged not to cruise suffiently to satisfy them.

 

I completely understand the 'inconvenience' argument, but, a non-occupied boat has exactly the same mooring rights/times as an occupied boat.

Both should start to come under enforcement if they have not moved on day 15, or have moved an insufficient amount (unless circumstances etc etc........)

[Machpoint005]

Here we go again -- lots of talk about rights, none about responsibilities.

[cotswoldsman]

Here we go again -- lots of talk about rights, none about responsibilities.

What are you on about?

[alan_fincher]

A small clique of liveaboard CCers on here coined and use the term 'Dumpers'. Bridge shufflers seems less judgemental as it's what they do.

 

They also compete with CCers for the most convenient mooring spots which is fair enough, even though irritating to see empty boats occupying the best spaces sometimes.

 

I appreciate that whist it is this cold you may leave a gently smoking chimney that indicates maybe that the boat is lived on, but you are perhaps not there at the moment.

 

However, if we assume you are regularly off fixing boilers, and hadn't left a fire visibly lit, how would the average boater passing during the day know whether your boat was "dumped" or whether you were going to be tucked up in bed on it that evening?

[NigelMoore]

However the enforcement process is different in that CRT can enforce against boats that are not lived on much quicker if they are judged not to cruise suffiently to satisfy them.

 

Both live-aboards and non-live aboards can be moved on far quicker if the appropriate s.8(5) powers are enforced instead of s.8(2); there is no difference between them under those circumstances.

[MtB]

I appreciate that whist it is this cold you may leave a gently smoking chimney that indicates maybe that the boat is lived on, but you are perhaps not there at the moment.

However, if we assume you are regularly off fixing boilers, and hadn't left a fire visibly lit, how would the average boater passing during the day know whether your boat was "dumped" or whether you were going to be tucked up in bed on it that evening?

A passing boater won't know. But a a neighbour will notice smoke from my chimney in daytime and lights on in the evening. I'd say 50% of the boats moored adjacent to me show neither over any given one week period (the time I tend to stay in one place).

[dmr]

Here we go again -- lots of talk about rights, none about responsibilities.

I was just going to say that, but will give you a greenie instead. If we all exercised all of our "rights" all of the time it would be a very unpleasant world indeed.

 

When I lived in a house my neighbour used to park his huge work van right outside my house. He openly said he did not want it outside his house because it blocked the light going into his window. He was within his rights to do this so no point in me complaining, but he was without doubt an A***hole.

 

.............Dave

[Gwydion]

I was just going to say that, but will give you a greenie instead. If we all exercised all of our "rights" all of the time it would be a very unpleasant world indeed.

 

When I lived in a house my neighbour used to park his huge work van right outside my house. He openly said he did not want it outside his house because it blocked the light going into his window. He was within his rights to do this so no point in me complaining, but he was without doubt an A***hole.

 

.............Dave

 

Somewhere between rights and responsibility, there has to be consideration for common sense as well as common decency. On the grand scale of both, your arsehole of a neighbour with his lorry is a million miles away from a CCer who moves his boat around regularly within a 20 or so mile stretch within reach of where he works, but still falls foul of CRT's moving goalposts.

[valrene9600]

How do you define a CC'er liveaboard? It could be argued we all are when we are on the boat and dumpers when we are off the boat.

Or is it someone who doesn't have anywhere else to live?

In my view a liveaboard is someone as the name implies lives aboard year in year out on towpath or in marina. All others are boaters. Some for 7 months of year, boat back in marina and back to house. Or some move boat at holidays or weekends, perhaps every other weekend, are still boaters.

You can have countless names like c/moorer, dumper or bridge hopper but at the end of the day they are all boaters or liveaboards boating as to how they want to interpret the rules but that is a different subject that the individual argues with crt about.

What they all have in common is the need for a licence to go boating.

[jenlyn]

In my view a liveaboard is someone as the name implies lives aboard year in year out on towpath or in marina. All others are boaters. Some for 7 months of year, boat back in marina and back to house. Or some move boat at holidays or weekends, perhaps every other weekend, are still boaters.

You can have countless names like c/moorer, dumper or bridge hopper but at the end of the day they are all boaters or liveaboards boating as to how they want to interpret the rules but that is a different subject that the individual argues with crt about.

What they all have in common is the need for a licence to go boating.

The divide and conquer rhetoric has weaved it’s way through our canals. Some can’t wait to vent their anger at someone they’ve seen overstaying, moored up. "Everyone should be labeled". CRT should hand out badges, perhaps even an IWA annual award?

(tongue firmly in cheek)

[DrunkenDonkey]

The divide and conquer rhetoric has weaved it’s way through our canals. Some can’t wait to vent their anger at someone they’ve seen overstaying, moored up. "Everyone should be labeled". CRT should hand out badges, perhaps even an IWA annual award?

(tongue firmly in cheek)

 

Jenlyn, are you in MK at the moment by any chance?

[jenlyn]

 

Jenlyn, are you in MK at the moment by any chance?

Not yet.

[DrunkenDonkey]

Not yet.

 

Ok, no worries, there's a boat at The Plough with a sticker on the back that matches your avatar, was just curious.

[jenlyn]

The plough is a bit posh for me, and I've run out of wyvern discount vouchers for there.

[DrunkenDonkey]

Its just had a refit and Im not a fan either, menu is crap, booze is too expensive and all the fancy decor doesnt fit for a pub that HAS NO SINGLE MALT!