Enforcement ?

[Emerald Fox]

I feel no envy towards other who don't take the right approach.

 

Can't say I'm 'envious' either. If it makes you happy paying for other people's pleasures (and canal boating is a leisure pursuit) that's fine by me. I do notice you haven't chipped in towards my licence yet, yet you seem happy for me to pay for others' pleasures also.

Do you own a boat and pay for a licence? No licence means no insurance and if your gas bottles explode and you injure or kill someone - do you give a monkeys?

The K&A must be a much more 'residentially based' boating area than the midlands.

 

Is the K&A some sort of commuter corridor? Everyone working in Bath/Bristol - Reading/London, and the boat just a suitable place to doss?

[rgreg]

Display it and you can't lose. Less stressing more boating. Simples.

Exactly. I can't understand some of the petty things people make an issue of. Just display your licence and number on both sides of the boat so they are visible from the towpath then forget about it, get on with life, and let C&RT staff get on with their jobs.

[valrene9600]

Best idea is the winter permit allowing moving around, no fixed sites. Of course it needs tweaking to stop boats mooring at popular, towns, sites. It was cheap and enabled some freedom. Going off for water you could not return but spend a time over 14 days at another non popular site.

They, crt, must have decided more money to be made from designated sites. I think they might have made a financial error there. Knowing a couple of shall we say non large distance movers who purchased this permit because the low cost gave them a hassle free winter as far as EO's it surely must have been taken up by many others in same situation.

Someone said planning permission stopped it but 3 months on a fixed site winter mooring would still need planning.

Anyway be interesting how the winter moorings are handled by crt next year. Personally I love to move on a bright wintets day to new views etc.

[Guest]

Exactly. I can't understand some of the petty things people make an issue of. Just display your licence and number on both sides of the boat so they are visible from the towpath then forget about it, get on with life, and let C&RT staff get on with their jobs.

I believe most people who don't display a licence don't do so out of belligerence but have perfectly valid reasons such as not being able to print it and are out continuously cruising or like us simply forgot to take it to the boat and simply didn't think the 200 (Nearly 300 when we moored in the Midlands) mile round trip to go back for it was worth it just to pacify some 'curtain twitcher' with nothing better to do or even a CRT EO when it's pretty obvious the requirement to display it isn't actually enforced anyway.

Edited March 1, 2016 by MJG

[valrene9600]

I believe most people who don't display a licence don't do so out of belligerence but have perfectly valid reasons such as not being able to print it and are out continuously cruising or like us simply forgot to take it to the boat and simply didn't think the 200 (Nearly 300 when we moored in the Midlands) mile round trip to go back for it was worth it just to pacify some 'curtain twitcher' with nothing better to do or even a CRT EO when it's pretty obvious the requirement to display it isn't actually enforced anyway.

I think most people mean the ones who seem to enjoy knocking authority and think they are not going to display for the hell of it.

[MtB]

Refusing to display one's licence is one helluva civil disobedience protest though isn't it?

 

I bet Mr Cameron is quaking in his boots about what's gonna happen next out there!

[Paul C]

In Utopian 2116 when your great-grandchildren are reciting historical tales of their great-grandparents actions during the "post-industrial revolution" of Eurasia, some will be reminiscing how they took on the most powerful governments of EU and China; and the biggest companies of the day like Amazon, Google, SAIC, Glencore Xstrata, Carrefour and Allianz in a bloody revolution to the death, as least yours will be able to say "my great-grandad didn't display his CRT licence".

[MtB]

And not only did he "Stick it to the man" by not displaying it, he proudly boasted about his revolutionary world-changing protest by telling everyone on CWF!

[NigelMoore]

Best idea is the winter permit allowing moving around, no fixed sites. . . .

They, crt, must have decided more money to be made from designated sites. I think they might have made a financial error there.

 

I do not believe they have made an error.

 

I suspect that the reason for abandoning the 'licence to relax enforcement' in that way is that even CaRT’s Legal Department recognised how close to a protection racket the system appeared. IF it is not legal to use the network in the way winter moorings operated, then is not legal for CaRT to turn a blind eye in return for payment. If it IS legal, then they have no justification for charging extra either.

 

At least restricting use to designated sites has more of an appearance of providing a specific facility.

 

[Nightwatch]

Yes, a specific facility without facilities it seems.

[Loafer]

Yes, a specific facility without facilities it seems.

 

They certainly lost my winter mooring fee when they decided to put them where no-one wants to be. (Mind you I didn't buy one of the earlier ones either - we had no need for it then.

[valrene9600]

I do not believe they have made an error.

 

I suspect that the reason for abandoning the 'licence to relax enforcement' in that way is that even CaRT’s Legal Department recognised how close to a protection racket the system appeared. IF it is not legal to use the network in the way winter moorings operated, then is not legal for CaRT to turn a blind eye in return for payment. If it IS legal, then they have no justification for charging extra either.

At least restricting use to designated sites has more of an appearance of providing a specific facility.

 

It wasn't named that was it. Designated areas are no different to the wanddring permit or whatever it was called. Some designated sights happen to be near facilities but a lot are not. At least the wanddring one allowed you to position yourself in a better position.

Of course the legality can be argued from one winter to the next but for those wanting a hassle free life my belief is the wandering mooring ticket was best. Of course as I said there needs to be some restrictions to stop busy places becoming crowded with no room for passing boats.

P.S. of course those thinking/knowing it's illegal can save money by not paying and accepting what might or might not follow.

[valrene9600]

If I had been one of those £33 million lotto winners I might have tried to get a few court decisions and maybe are they called precedents but you never know that might end with new laws that no one likes.

[NigelMoore]

. . . you never know that might end with new laws that no one likes.

 

Only Parliament can make laws. So called ‘judge-made law’ through the making of precedent decisions can only interpret existing law along certain lines, creating certitude for a particular interpretation of that existing law; they cannot create new ones [although some of their more imaginative decisions can certainly sometimes look that way].

[plainsman]

Does anyone ever check licences? I walked through Parbold on the towpath of the L&L yesterday. There were 11 boats moored there; 2 showing valid licences, 7 showing expired licences (oldest 10/13) and 2 showing no licence at all.

 

Apart from the above, several boats have been moored on the 24 hour moorings all winter!

 

Have heard from a reliable source that CRT on the L&L in this area are short of staff and generally do not patrol. They tend to only act in response to a complaint about a specific boat or location. So it's up to you!

[Tony Dunkley]

Have heard from a reliable source that CRT on the L&L in this area are short of staff and generally do not patrol. They tend to only act in response to a complaint about a specific boat or location. So it's up to you!

 

Given, that they now also largely abstain from maintenance and repairs, this does beg the questions, . . . what exactly does C&RT do, can they be truthfully described as a navigation authority, and have they now completely forgotten what is laid down in their Articles of Association ?

 

From the Trust's Articles of Association :~

 

2. Objects

The Trust’s objects are:

2.1 to preserve, protect, operate and manage Inland Waterways for public benefit:

 

2.1.1 for navigation; . . .

Edited March 2, 2016 by Tony Dunkley

[churchward]

I wonder what all the winter stoppages were for?

[Tony Dunkley]

I wonder what all the winter stoppages were for?

 

A token gesture in order to engender the illusion of maintenance, and strictly limited to where decay and neglect either bordered on or surpassed dereliction, . . . there are some folk who are mightily impressed by primroses in cowpats, . . . apparently !

Edited March 3, 2016 by Tony Dunkley

[Ange]

Yes, a specific facility without facilities it seems.

We didn't realise we had facilities at our winter mooring until a non boater checked whether we were aware of them. An unmarked door at the Westport Lake visitor centre can be opened with a CRT key and reveals sparkly clean toilet, showers and elsan disposal. Not signposted at all from the canal and not mentioned in any guides.

 

What made it even more odd is that it's very disabled friendly but only accessible via a muddy path that I can't imagine a wheelchair being able to navigate.

[b0atman]

We didn't realise we had facilities at our winter mooring until a non boater checked whether we were aware of them. An unmarked door at the Westport Lake visitor centre can be opened with a CRT key and reveals sparkly clean toilet, showers and elsan disposal. Not signposted at all from the canal and not mentioned in any guides.

 

What made it even more odd is that it's very disabled friendly but only accessible via a muddy path that I can't imagine a wheelchair being able to navigate.

that's worth knowing I often moor there maybe put this up in a different section to get the word out .

[Guest]

Given, that they now also largely abstain from maintenance and repairs, this does beg the questions, . . . what exactly does C&RT do, can they be truthfully described as a navigation authority, and have they now completely forgotten what is laid down in their Articles of Association ?

 

Just more unsubstantiated anti CRT rhetoric.

 

Just one example.

 

http://www.canalworld.net/forums/index.php?showtopic=83012#entry1774285

 

Of course they don't have a limitless pot to do everything, perhaps those boaters who come here seeking various ways to evade charges due to CRT should remember this, ironically they often seem to be the same ones who mock the trust for its lack of maintenance. I find that frankly laughable.

[mayalld]

 

Given, that they now also largely abstain from maintenance and repairs, this does beg the questions, . . . what exactly does C&RT do, can they be truthfully described as a navigation authority, and have they now completely forgotten what is laid down in their Articles of Association ?

 

From the Trust's Articles of Association :~

 

2. Objects

The Trust’s objects are:

2.1 to preserve, protect, operate and manage Inland Waterways for public benefit:

 

2.1.1 for navigation; . . .

 

Of course it would be a lot easier to do all of this if a few boaters weren't so intent on;

• Paying nothing to be on the water
• Putting CRT to enormous expense should they dare to challenge that position.

[Tony Dunkley]

 

 

Of course it would be a lot easier to do all of this if a few boaters weren't so intent on;

• Paying nothing to be on the water
• Putting CRT to enormous expense should they dare to challenge that position.

 

 

Very predictable, . . . . . and very silly.

Just how do you think that any individual can force C&RT into wasting thousands on futile legal action with the sole aim of bolstering up and enforcing some self-conferred and imaginary powers. The choice is theirs , and theirs alone.

Edited March 3, 2016 by Tony Dunkley

[mayalld]

 

Very predictable, . . . . . and very silly.

Just how do you think that any individual can force C&RT into wasting thousands on futile legal action in attempting to confer imaginary and non-existent powers on themselves. The choice is theirs , and theirs alone.

 

OK, let us leave out the second point.

 

How are CRT to spend money on the waterways if so many people are intent on working out how to pay them less money?

[Tony Dunkley]

 

OK, let us leave out the second point.

 

How are CRT to spend money on the waterways if so many people are intent on working out how to pay them less money?

 

How many people, and how much less money ?. . . . and how does this sum compare with the amount squandered on pointless administrative posts, inappropriate and oppressive 'enforcement' and surveillance, and costly but ineffective litigation which does nothing to reduce real Licence evasion from the 4%[+] where, according to C&RT, it currently still stands ?

Edited March 3, 2016 by Tony Dunkley