Best value PSW 1500w inverter?

[charlie-uk]

From the numerous posts on the net about inverters, it seems most people like Mastervolt and Victron. Clearly they are the Mercedes of inverters.

 

However, is there a budget brand that would be worth the money? Sort of the Toyota of inverters. How about the brand "Sunshine"?

 

 

Is it wiser to stay with a bigger brand? and if so, which Brand and Model would you recommend for someone looking for 1500w PSW inverter that is on a very limited budget.

 

Also, is there somewhere that sells refurbished inverters, and are they worth looking at?

 

 

I'm grateful for your wisdom.

Edited February 17, 2016 by charlie-uk

[Paul C]

Cheaper brands tend to be unrecognisable and change quite regularly. Personally if I were seeking maximum value for money, I'd go on eBay and look for the cheapest that ticked all these boxes:

 

- right specification

- UK supplied (ie if it goes wrong......is the place to send it back, the UK - accepting it might be an importer)

- Warranty/guarantee 1 year

- No weird conditions in the warranty

- I'd also ask about N-E bonding, with an agreement to be able to send back for a refund it if it turns out it can't be safely NE bonded

Also I know it sounds obvious, but check it works with all the electrical appliances you want it for! The cheaper ones tend to be "not quite" pure sine wave.....

[Chewbacka]

I had a 1500W continuous PSW inverter (Power Jack), it came from somewhere in EU but from a Chinese seller that held some EU stock to avoid duty concerns for their customers. So if you buy from them thinking they are an EU supplier, they are not.

These Chinese 'EU based' ebay suppliers may not offer an EU warranty and if it fails you will have to pay for carriage to and from China.

I would simply replace if it had failed as it only cost £150 when new.

 

As an inverter it did what I needed - ran the fridge and power tools under 800W. while fitting out the boat. I used it for about 3 years.

But I would not trust leaving it on if I was not on the boat. The best it could manage for any length of time was about 800W (resistive load) - I tested it by heating the 1kW immersion heater (engine running to protect the batts) and it did overheat after about 30 mins.

 

As the boat is now finished and I had some money left over I replaced it.

 

If I were a liveaboard I would want an inverter that I could -

1) Trust to be safe

2) Have a low quiescent current and good efficiency (ie not waste too much power within itself)

3) Good reputation for reliability backed with a warranty of at least 3 years.

 

Sadly any inverter that ticks those boxes is not going to be low cost.

So in answer to your question, there does not seem to be much stuff in the 'middle' ground.

 

What is the max you can afford? and could you manage with a slightly smaller inverter?

Edited February 17, 2016 by Chewbacka

[charlie-uk]

I've been reading more about inverters and it seems very clear that I'm going to have to invest in a quality brand and model. I don't find a single recommendation of a budget inverter. The final straw was when I read "I would not trust leaving it on if I was not on the boat" (Thanks Chewbacka). I don't want to risk it.

 

I'm off to find the devil to see if he will offer me a good price on my soul, to help me pay this inverter.

[WotEver]

I'm off to find the devil to see if he will offer me a good price on my soul, to help me pay this inverter.

Take your guitar with you and stand on a quiet crossroad.

 

Tony

[Richard10002]

Sterling??

[alan_fincher]

Do you have special reasons why it must be pure sine wave?

Many people seem to survive perfectly well without, so I'm assuming you wish to run at least some things you believe may be problematic with MSW?

[charlie-uk]

It seems laptops and microwaves can be damaged by MSW.

[alan_fincher]

It seems laptops and microwaves can be damaged by MSW.

 

I have not really heard of issues with laptop PSUs, but perhaps I have not been looking in the right places.

 

I must admit by preference when I can swing it is to run laptops off 12 volt converters, rather than going up to mains voltage, only to come back down again.

 

However increasingly I have found it harder to circumvent the "cleverness" built into some laptops like Dells, so they object to running on anything other than their own 240 volt "brick".

 

We now generally run a variety of laptops and notepads and tablets off of 240 volts, and always with a MSW inverter, and I have never had issues, even where the inverter has cost about £30.

 

Microwaves I can't speak for, never having put one on a boat, but I'm sure people do run them OK off MSW.

 

Washing machines (and electric toothbrushes!) seem to be the main thing that push people towards PSW. We have only ever had basic washers, and they run fine on MSW.

[Sir Nibble]

I will look up a price from my supplier.

[Paul C]

It seems laptops and microwaves can be damaged by MSW.

 

I ran 3 laptop chargers and a microwave from a MSV inverter with no worries, however what you say is partially correct:

 

1) Some laptop chargers just don't work; and some seem to work but get hotter or draw more power.

2) A microwave with a digital timer/etc is unlikely to work on a MSV inverter. A microwave with a manual timer (ie the cheaper ones) is likely to work on a MSW inverter.

 

If you are disciplined about turning the inverter off (and by off, I mean off with a 12V isolator switch....which needs to be a high current one) when not in use, then a "cheap" MSW inverter can do the job. I would not recommend leaving a cheap inverter on all the time, due to the possibility of failure and electrical smoke/fire.

 

If you had a 230V fridge/freezer, its a different kettle of fish entirely - you need to trust that the inverter can be left on 24/7. In this case, there's no substitute for recommendations from other boaters. And its going to cost ££££ unfortunately.

[WotEver]

I have found it harder to circumvent the "cleverness" built into some laptops like Dells, so they object to running on anything other than their own 240 volt "brick".

Last time I Googled this there were lots of sites showing you how to 'fix' this.

 

Tony

[PaulJ]

Charlie- uk. I moved a boat last year that had a Sterling 1800 quasi inverter in. This run the fridge and gas cooker starter and fan(240v) , phone and laptop charger and a Matsui 700 watt microwave (non digital) with no problems at all.

I was instructed not to plug the freezer in however as it apparently didnt like it. I didnt plug my toothbrush in either as am fed up of replacing the charger.

[OldGoat]

Two considerations never (?) aired when comparing MSW and PSW inverters that are required to be in use '24/7' are those of:-

• Standby power consumption
• Peak power output

I can't find a DC fridge freezer that matches the capacity of my aged LEC type unit and so have to look at 240v AC units. Some of these have outlandish / guessed peak startup loads - which I have to take at face value.

 

MSW units have relatively large standby power demands

Unless of the highest quality, I'm not convinced that their peak voltage will be sufficient either.

 

PSW units - for a given continuously rated power output also have a larger peak power capability than a similar MSW unit.

 

To reinforce the MSW peak voltage conundrum - I find that my 1600W vacuum cleaner doesn't feel comfortable with a MSW inverter or suck as powerfully as it does when run via a mains supply. The unit wasn't a cheapy unit either.....

 

Perhaps folks might that the above into consideration when buying a MSW unit.

[WotEver]

Following a recent conversation via PM I am unconvinced that the peak power capability of an inverter of either flavour will in any way cope with the start up current of a high-consumption device such as a freezer or a vacuum cleaner. The inverter's peak is probably too short, and the device's start-up peak usually makes no mention of power factor during startup, which might be very poor.

 

Tony

[cuthound]

I am more familiar with commercial UPS's than marine inverters, but typically a static UPS will provide 50-100% overload for 30 seconds. If it is anymore or longer, the UPS will switch to mains (not possible on a marine inverter unless on a shore line) to power the overload.

[alan_fincher]

MSW units have relatively large standby power demands

Well I don't know about as a general rule, but for ones I have actually owned, the standby power demands of a PSW one were actually quoted as more than for an MSW.

 

In general I also thought the efficiency of an MSW one when actually powering a significat load is better than for PSW.

 

Am I wrong?

[cuthound]

Well I don't know about as a general rule, but for ones I have actually owned, the standby power demands of a PSW one were actually quoted as more than for an MSW.

In general I also thought the efficiency of an MSW one when actually powering a significat load is better than for PSW.

 

Am I wrong?

Again for commercial UPS's, which I am familiar with. A modern PSW using trsnsistor switching will have an efficiency of 95% or better. For a MSW one, using thyristor switching will have an efficiently of around 85%. Don't see why marine inverters will be any different.

[Paul C]

Well I don't know about as a general rule, but for ones I have actually owned, the standby power demands of a PSW one were actually quoted as more than for an MSW.

 

In general I also thought the efficiency of an MSW one when actually powering a significat load is better than for PSW.

 

Am I wrong?

 

You're neither right nor wrong. I believe the area is too broad to apply assumptions such as "MSW inverters are more efficient than PSW ones" or "cheap ones have a higher standby current than expensive ones". I believe the correct thing to do is closely inspect the manufacturers tech specifications, then confirm the values by measuring yourself and refining a power audit or other calculations you might have done. If the measurements differ from the specs, and you've done them properly, there's a case for returning the item if you based the purchase decision on those specs.

[Loafer]

I had a 1500W continuous PSW inverter (Power Jack), it came from somewhere in EU but from a Chinese seller that held some EU stock to avoid duty concerns for their customers. So if you buy from them thinking they are an EU supplier, they are not.

These Chinese 'EU based' ebay suppliers may not offer an EU warranty and if it fails you will have to pay for carriage to and from China.

I would simply replace if it had failed as it only cost £150 when new.

 

As an inverter it did what I needed - ran the fridge and power tools under 800W. while fitting out the boat. I used it for about 3 years.

But I would not trust leaving it on if I was not on the boat. The best it could manage for any length of time was about 800W (resistive load) - I tested it by heating the 1kW immersion heater (engine running to protect the batts) and it did overheat after about 30 mins.

 

As the boat is now finished and I had some money left over I replaced it.

 

If I were a liveaboard I would want an inverter that I could -

1) Trust to be safe

2) Have a low quiescent current and good efficiency (ie not waste too much power within itself)

3) Good reputation for reliability backed with a warranty of at least 3 years.

 

Sadly any inverter that ticks those boxes is not going to be low cost.

So in answer to your question, there does not seem to be much stuff in the 'middle' ground.

 

What is the max you can afford? and could you manage with a slightly smaller inverter?

 

I don't believe ANY inverter can tick items 1 or 3. I have a smoke alarm directly above my cheap one, after seeing TWO Victrons die within 6 years. One of them died with no load on, having left it on overnight (which we used to do all the time). I have begun to see them as 'consumable items' and no longer run it unless I am onboard and awake.

 

They are NOT to be trusted, IMHO, even the good ones. Having said that, I have never heard of a Sterling one giving up the smoke, but possibly others might comment here. Mine is a rubbish Chinese one, but it does work.

[charlie-uk]

"TWO Victrons die within 6 years"... OMG at around £600 I was thinking a Victron would out live me.

 

I am very concerned about the risk of fire. I don't want to divert the thread but should an inverter be turned off when leaving the boat?

[Paul C]

". I don't want to divert the thread but should an inverter be turned off when leaving the boat?

 

I'd say: yes

 

HOWEVER if you'd asked "should a fridge be turned off when leaving the boat?" I'd have said, in some circumstances, no. If you have a 230V fridge then you'd be obliged to leave the boat unattended with the inverter running.

 

Don't forget, even if you run the fridge off of shoreline, there's going to be situations such as out on a cruise and want to go to the pub, or shopping, or a walk, when the boat is left unattended and not on shoreline, with some contents of the fridge you'd want to preserve (in other words, its not like the end of a trip where you may be able to empty the fridge etc).

[Loafer]

"TWO Victrons die within 6 years"... OMG at around £600 I was thinking a Victron would out live me.

 

I am very concerned about the risk of fire. I don't want to divert the thread but should an inverter be turned off when leaving the boat?

 

It may well do. Some people have had them for years. My first one to die was in the boat when we bought her, so could have been 10 years old. The new, slimline 12/1600/70 died when it was just out of warranty. We needed an inverter immediately, so bought a cheapie. That one seems to be lasting. I'm never buying Victron again. I just couldn't stand the ARSE of sending it to Holland!

[ditchcrawler]

It seems laptops and microwaves can be damaged by MSW.

What size Microwave are you looking at. 1500 may be a bit tight

[charlie-uk]

I would only get an 800w Microwave. I guess a 12v fridge would be best if the inverter should be turned off.

 

Even with all this excellent information, I'm still not sure what to do.

 

I think it's best to stay with PSW. However, it's difficult to decide between a £600 1600v Victron or a £140 1500v Power Jack. I was going to go for the Victron as I thought it was a good ten-year investment and it could be left switched on when away from the boat, but that doesn't seem to be the case.