Recommended boat hull/steel

[RichardC]

Im looking at commissioning a brand new boat build and whilst all boat builders say the hulls that they use are of top quality I'm looking for some unbiased information.

My understanding is that there are three options. 6, 8 and 12 mm thickness. But then after reading a few other posts I see that there is then a quality of steel factor.

Any advice on what I should look for would be much appreciated. Ie where the hull is sourced etc. I have heard that polish built ones are good and then I hear that British ones are good. The new boat will be my home and see the hull as being the foundations of the house so I guess it's pretty important to get right

[bag 'o' bones]

the *general* standard is 10mm base plate 6mm sides and 4mm cabin

 

12mm base plate is becoming more popular albeit a lot more expensive - doesn't need as much ballast apparently.

 

Ask for evidence of the specification of the type of steel they use - there are different qualities - and then look it up.

 

No idea what steel is best. Although im pretty sure I read somewhere that low carbon steel rusts too readily.

[David Mack]

Narrow boats are almost invariably built from mild steel plate. The standard grade used to be BS 4360 Grade 43A; I think the current standard is BS EN 10025 Grade S275 or S355.

 

Steel to these standards could be made anywhere in the world, and your boatbuilder will not doubt use whatever is cheapest from his supplier.

[mrsmelly]

I have owned boats with 5,6 10 and 15 mil baseplates all were up to the job, the heavier one just eliminated need for ballast to a greater extent. I have owned hull side of 5,6 and 8 mill again all did a good job.

Have you owned boats before or just buying new as a first boat?

 

Tim

[BD3Bill]

Hi and welcome to the forum

 

If I were having a boat built from scratch I think I would share your concern.

 

I would absolutely insist that Chinese steel was not used.

In the 1970's folk used to jest that Japanese car were made of recycled razor blades, the Chinese use a great deal of recycled steel....

 

If you want to be really pedantic, which I think I would, I would specify steel from Sweden made by Sandvik or German steel made by Krupps.

 

Good info btw;

 

Narrow boats are almost invariably built from mild steel plate. The standard grade used to be BS 4360 Grade 43A; I think the current standard is BS EN 10025 Grade S275 or S355.

But steel can meet OR EXCEED this standard of course.

 

You WILL pay more, you will be happy.

 

Far more important is how the steel is treated once it is all welded together and that's a whole other thread.

 

Cheers!

Bill

[Phil Ambrose]

Chinese steel is fine provided it is made to the same standard. Making steel or any other alloy is like making a cake, you just have follow the recipe.

There was a whole thread about this subject very recently.

Allow your builder to use his years of experience to build you a good boat.

Phil

[OldGoat]

IMO

 

Chinese steel is fine provided it is made to the same standard. Making steel or any other alloy is like making a cake, you just have follow the recipe.
There was a whole thread about this subject very recently.
Allow your builder to use his years of experience to build you a good boat.
Phil

 

Polish hulls may be good value as far as the basic shape is concerned, but there a major usability challenges about the smaller details, some of which may be of no great importance if your boat is going to be static.

If, however, you're going to do any serious cruising, maintain the boat your self, want the boat to 'work' right (layout and placement of services and so on, then you'd be better advised to buy from one of the established hull builders.

There are many threads on here where folks have bought a used boat only to find major shell features inadequate .

 

[bottle]

Go with the reputable hull builder you like, go with the boat builder you like. Not necessarily the same company

 

Then ensure that you maintain it, properly, and the boat will outlast you and your off spring.

 

Shells (hulls) the 'norm' is 10,6,5,4. baseplate, hull sides, cabin sides, cabin top,(roof).

 

Sometimes the cabin sides and roof are both 4, so it would be 10,6,4

[gazza]

Hi and welcome to the forum

 

If I were having a boat built from scratch I think I would share your concern.

 

I would absolutely insist that Chinese steel was not used.

In the 1970's folk used to jest that Japanese car were made of recycled razor blades, the Chinese use a great deal of recycled steel....

 

If you want to be really pedantic, which I think I would, I would specify steel from Sweden made by Sandvik or German steel made by Krupps.

 

Good info btw;

 

But steel can meet OR EXCEED this standard of course.

 

You WILL pay more, you will be happy.

 

Far more important is how the steel is treated once it is all welded together and that's a whole other thread.

 

Cheers!

Bill

 

You can tell you dont deal with steel stockholders.....

 

Our last lot of 1 1/4" tube came from Turkey, we have Corby Tube works just up the road and almost never see a load from them.

 

All our Steel deliveries come with a CoC, it matters not where in the world it comes from or what it is, Plate, Box, Structural Sections - I beams and channels etc. It will meet the standard required.

To suggest a high grade steel is needed for a sewer tube is laughable

 

Anyone who says Steel from China is crap is talking out of their hat. The big problem with steel from China is the glut of it flooding the market is making life very difficult for our Steelmakers to compete. http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-34581945

Edited February 12, 2016 by gazza

[RichardC]

Thanks very much for a great set of responses, so yes reputable boat builder looks like the way forward, now the search is for a reputable builder, I'm in Surrey and know of a few, if there are any builders reading this thread then they might want to get in contact ?

[BD3Bill]

 

You can tell you dont deal with steel stockholders.....

 

Our last lot of 1 1/4" tube came from Turkey, we have Corby Tube works just up the road and almost never see a load from them.

 

All our Steel deliveries come with a CoC, it matters not where in the world it comes from or what it is, Plate, Box, Structural Sections - I beams and channels etc. It will meet the standard required.

To suggest a high grade steel is needed for a sewer tube is laughable

 

Anyone who says Steel from China is crap is talking out of their hat. The big problem with steel from China is the glut of it flooding the market is making life very difficult for our Steelmakers to compete. http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-34581945

 

 

I bow to your superior knowledge, its 30 years since I worked as a guillotine operator on sheet metal.

Glad to hear quality is better controlled nowadays.

Cheers

[RLWP]

, if there are any builders reading this thread then they might want to get in contact ?

 

 

That's very unlikely to happen. A good builder gets many enquiries - more than they have build slots. Strangely, part of the process is them deciding if they want to build a boat for you. It's a big commitment of their workshop space so they need to be convinced you are serious and will pay for the work. I'm not saying you aren't either of those things, just that a casual comment on an internet forum is unlikely to get you anywhere

 

Richard

[gazza]

 

I bow to your superior knowledge, its 30 years since I worked as a guillotine operator on sheet metal.

Glad to hear quality is better controlled nowadays.

Cheers

Of course it is, its a globally traded commodity!

 

The days of Nationally owned steel makers servicing a countries needs are sadly long gone!

[RichardC]

Yes your correct I dont deal with steel stock holders or boat builders. I write computer programs. entering a new world of a lot of unknowns is somewhat daungnting but a forum certainly seems the best way to get impartial advice.

[Alan de Enfield]

Richard - you mention a boat builder potentially 'sourcing a hull' - maybe just identifying various 'job titles' may help.

 

1) Generally a 'boat builder' will 'build' a shell (hull) from random bits of flat steel.

2) A boat 'fitter' will generally fit out a pre-sourced shell.

3) Some boat builders employ boat fitters (either on site or elsewhere) and do both jobs so you end up with a finished boat.

 

Boats can be purchased at any level of 'completeness' from an empty shell, to a finished boat, here are basic descriptions from one manufacturer

 

Standard Sailaway

• Shell – Cruiser Stern. Gas lockers at front. Quick release weed hatch. Integral keel cooler. Integral fuel tank. Mooring studs fore and aft. Roof ring. Side fender eyes. Front and rear mooring cleats. Integral hand rails on roof. Stern rail. Rudder + rudder stock + tiller bar. Steel rear door + sliding hatch. Steel front doors. 4 x anodes. Painted in primer and hull blacked.
• Sprayfoam insulation & battening, 18mm plywood floor & ballast to suit.
• Windows to suit. (36" x 21" top hopper windows & 15" portholes depending on length of boat).
• Barrus Engine to suit.

Lined Sailaway - As standard sailaway plus

• Mushroom vents to suit.
• Plastic Water Tank to suit + fittings. Tank is made from polypropylene Sheet, CNC cut and welded together both inside and out.
• Lined in 9mm Ash/Oak/Plain faced ply with hardwood trim and wood effect moisture resistant window liners.
• Electrics to include 12v and 240v wiring tails, Battery isolator switch & fuse. Consumer unit, Immersion heater switch, Galvanic Isolator, Shore line connection, 12v Switch panel. 2 * Leisure batteries. Victron Inverter/Charger to suit.

Lined Sailaway Extra - As Lined Sailaway plus

• Plumbing - Tails to bathroom & Galley, Water pump, Calorifier (55l). All piping pressure tested.
• Painted in 2-pac paint. High quality finish in two tone colour scheme with coach lines. Roof, front deck & gunwhales treated with non-slip coating.

Or a 'finished' boat to your agreed specifications.

 

Example - Sherwood Narrowboats work in conjunction with ABC who build the shells.

See link for examples

http://www.sherwoodboats.co.uk/index.php

 

No connection and no recommendations, just local manufacturers to me.

 

In my opinion what the steel is, is pretty much irrelevant - its how you look after it.

A huge 'play' is made about hull thickness and whilst I appreciate a canal boat will take some 'knocks' just remember that many Sea going steel boats are made of 5 or 6mm plate.

The advantage of a 'thick bottom' is that you can increase the internal headroom by doing away with ballast below the floor. Our last narrowboat had a 13mm base plate.

Edited February 12, 2016 by Alan de Enfield

[gazza]

Yes your correct I dont deal with steel stock holders or boat builders. I write computer programs. entering a new world of a lot of unknowns is somewhat daungnting but a forum certainly seems the best way to get impartial advice.

I wasnt commenting on your question, I quoted BD3Bill on his sweeping statement that steel from China isnt suitable for building a narrowboat.

 

Pickled steel sheet is a good idea to choose though, prevents problems with shoddy weld prep and surface prep prior to blacking.

 

http://www.walkersteel.com/products.html

 

above all else, choose a reputable builder with a proven track record.

[BD3Bill]

I wasnt commenting on your question, I quoted BD3Bill on his sweeping statement that steel from China isnt suitable for building a narrowboat.

 

Pickled steel sheet is a good idea to choose though, prevents problems with shoddy weld prep and surface prep prior to blacking.

 

http://www.walkersteel.com/products.html

 

above all else, choose a reputable builder with a proven track record.

 

Fairplay.

[BD3Bill]

http://www.eef.org.uk/uksteel/Representing-our-sector/briefings/UK-Steel-warns-about-Chinese-structural-steels.htm

 

mmm.... interesting reading.

[Keeping Up]

We have a 12mm baseplate; it actually worked out cheaper than 10mm because not only did it not need any ballast but also because there was no need to leave room for ballast the floor could sit directly on the steel ribs without any need for separate floor bearers (the ribs can be seen clearly in this photo).

 

 

A side-benefit is that we not only gained extra headroom but also the roof is slightly lower than the norm so we fit under low bridges and go through small tunnels more easily. There are plenty more pictures here

Edited February 12, 2016 by Keeping Up

[dave moore]

Most of the top quality shell builders have longish waiting lists, simply because their products are sought after by discerning boaters. Bear in mind that the shell is the part of a boat that cannot easily be altered afterwards. Paint schemes are much easier, internal arrangements or fit out also. In the main, I'd advise the best shell affordable...they are much easier to sell subsequently. If you are new to canals, an initial purchase of a second hand boat would give you a clearer insight in to what your later new boat should or shouldn't have in fit out terms.

 

Dave

[Midnight]

 

You can tell you dont deal with steel stockholders.....

 

Our last lot of 1 1/4" tube came from Turkey, we have Corby Tube works just up the road and almost never see a load from them.

 

All our Steel deliveries come with a CoC, it matters not where in the world it comes from or what it is, Plate, Box, Structural Sections - I beams and channels etc. It will meet the standard required.

To suggest a high grade steel is needed for a sewer tube is laughable

 

Anyone who says Steel from China is crap is talking out of their hat. The big problem with steel from China is the glut of it flooding the market is making life very difficult for our Steelmakers to compete. http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-34581945

 

If high grade steel isn't needed why do some shells corrode faster than others?

I see newish (less than 5 years) boats with frightening amounts of rust especially on the baseplate - yet I've seen old boats (over 25 years) from Springers to Norton Canes shells with hardly any corrosion at all.

 

I must admit to being nervous about the standard of steel these days especially as I know bot all about grades etc. If I was ordering a new shell I would want the same steel as used on the Norton Canes boat I mentioned, hardly any corrosion on the unpainted baseplate after 29 years. How would I spec that?

[bottle]

Get Norton Canes to build it.

[Alan de Enfield]

It is a combination of where it is kept and how it is looked after - a boat moored in a marina with 'leaky electrics' can be severely pitted in months, a boat in 'nice' electrically free water may last for 100 years without major corrosion, boats regularly maintained with blacking around the waterline will last better than ones that havn't.

 

The correct type and number of anodes makes a difference.

 

The use of Galvanic isolators / transformers makes a difference.

 

The 'quality' of the steel has little effect as shown in your comments about 'Springers' that were often built of recycled 2nd hand steel from Gasometers and were sometimes only 3.75mm thick.

 

Baseplates will generally be corrosion free due to (depending on the person you are talking to)

1) Lack of oxygen below the water line

2) They scrape along the bottom and are kept rust free

 

There are too many variables to say 'high quality steel will last longer than cheap steel"

Edited February 12, 2016 by Alan de Enfield

[BD3Bill]

 

If high grade steel isn't needed why do some shells corrode faster than others?

I see newish (less than 5 years) boats with frightening amounts of rust especially on the baseplate - yet I've seen old boats (over 25 years) from Springers to Norton Canes shells with hardly any corrosion at all.

 

I must admit to being nervous about the standard of steel these days especially as I know bot all about grades etc. If I was ordering a new shell I would want the same steel as used on the Norton Canes boat I mentioned, hardly any corrosion on the unpainted baseplate after 29 years. How would I spec that?

So I'm not imagining it/ mad/ making sweeping statements then.

 

If I knew how I'd give you a greenie...

Cheers!

[Alan de Enfield]

So I'm not imagining it/ mad/ making sweeping statements then.

 

 

 

Yes you are.