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60ft dutch trawler.to buy or not to buy rust issues.

davo123

By davo123
in Boat Building & Maintenance

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X Alan W Rising Star

X Alan W

Posted
Posted

Reading the to &fro posts although you are asking for advice when this is given ( to the effect of leave well alone) you tend to skirt around the advice making me think that despite asking advice you have made up your mind via your heart that you want & will buy this boat ,no matter what. Please do not take this as prying in to your personal life but do yo have a family? if yes how would they cope with possibly iiving on a boat that requires that amount of work, If you are by yourself why do you require a boat this big, usually big = more cash but then again if this is what you are determined to do, no one offering what i would consider sound advice would alter your thinking so apart from having discussions, it 's all going around in ever decreasing circles The other thing that I know as fact Whatever the total amount of cash you think it's going to cost, add a least 25/50 % + add at least another 6 months on to your completion date Only you can make the yes/no decision. I wish you the best of luck should your decision be yes

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blackrose Veteran II

blackrose

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I don't understand why you wouldn't want to get it surveyed? Something about not being able to move it? But then you go on to say if you bought it you'd dry dock it to do some repairs?

 

Yes, you have to pay for the survey but if the hull turns out to be no good it could save you some money. On the other hand if the survey reveals that the hull is good then it's money well spent that you can think of as part of the overall cost of the boat.

 

What you're doing at the moment is guessing, and you're asking us to guess too. If you're serious about the boat then get a survey.

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WotEver Veteran II

WotEverDonate to Canal World

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I don't understand why you wouldn't want to get it surveyed? Something about not being able to move it? But then you go on to say if you bought it you'd dry dock it to do some repairs?

 

Yes, you have to pay for the survey but if the hull turns out to be no good it could save you some money. On the other hand if the survey reveals that the hull is good then it's money well spent that you can think of as part of the overall cost of the boat.

 

What you're doing at the moment is guessing, and you're asking us to guess too. If you're serious about the boat then get a survey.

Spot on good advice.

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boathunter Rising Star

boathunter

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I don't know any more about boats than the OP, but...

My grandfather and his forebears were owners of such fishing boats.

Their attitude towards them was that they were tools to be kept useable for the minimum cost.

The concrete may have been dumped in there to get even another few months use out of it if that was cost effective at the time - maybe even just another couple of trips while they sorted a replacement or more likely threw in the towel and retired because fishing isn't what it was in the 50's.

If you are a vehicle welder (like me) you will have seen many basket cases and advised they were not worth throwing good money at. In the case of cars my personal strap line would be "You'd be better off financially and save years of pain by pushing it over a cliff and starting with a better one". I guess with a boat you'd have to adjust the "push off a cliff" bit to "sink in deep water", but i'd also guess that's not allowed so you'd be stuck with disposal cost. If I were you I'd get a quote for that from the scrappy you mentioned, you might be surprised - they'll know you're in a sticky position and price accordingly.

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MtB Veteran II

MtBDonate to Canal World

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I think getting a hull survey would be an Extremely Good Idea for a different reason to all the other posts.

 

Once you've bought it and had it docked, be there when the surveyor does his examination, chat to him,ask endless questions and generally watch his every move. You'll learn an absolute tonne of stuff about boats in general as well as yours, then at the end of the survey you'll be a whole lot better informed about bad a basket case you have on your hands, and whether to weigh it in or get the Halfords buzz welder out!

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Murflynn Veteran

Murflynn

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reading the posts you have already made your mind up to go for it, its not much money to loose - worst that can happen is you loose a few £ but have fun in the process and a story to tell.

no, the worst is that you assume responsibility for a wreck that has to be disposed of in an acceptable manner.

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John V Veteran

John V

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Posted (edited)

Now I have electrickery, I can chuck in my sixpennyworth.

You will not be able to get a true idea of the work involved until she is out of the water.

The most important bit of the boat is the bit you can't see 'cos its covered by water !

If that bit is beyond hope then however good the rest of the boat, the whole lot is beyond hope.

If the stern gear is missing/faulty and the engine is surplus to requirements then the boat is no longer "boat value" but "hulk value".

A surveyor will base his recommendations of the hull thickness required on the thickness of the original scantlings

As an example 5.5mm was what was given for Sabina

 

Important things to find out.

is she stable if she takes the ground ?

is there a good beach or hard where you can beach her for inspection.

If this is possible then, if you really are keen, beaching her for a few tides would allow a much better inspection and give you some chance at making a realistic estimation of the work involved.

Remember if you are intending to make this your home and are intending to occupy it for many years then it is essential that the below waterline steel work is spot on. The cost of having it towed to drydock/slipway for regular maintenance will be very heavy so you really need to consider gritblasting and 2 packing the hull after the steelwork is done. You do not want that steel deteriorating however slowly, if you are living in it.

 

With an old commercial vessel the condition of the engine room plating, contrary to your belief is often better than the rest of the hull except in the immediate proximity of the propeller, this is because with an older vessel, due to the different attitude to pollution there was a lot of grease and oil/diesel in the bilges which tends to help preserve.

 

If the vessel has been lying at a buoy or to anchor for 15 years I would expect the corrosion to be worst around the waterline

and you may find you have to put a belt all the way round.

 

You say you are an automotive welder, I don't want to teach sucking eggs but AFAIK ships plating/welding is a very different animal from most other forms of welding. If you are working on clean un-corroded steel then MIG is the common method but if you are working with rusty, salt impregnated steel often of some pretty hefty gauges then many of the old boys prefer a stick welder. With large seams distortion is a problem and often boat seams will be stitch welded

 

Do not under estimate how long it is likely to take and the cost (not just financial). If your family is not 100% behind you and fully appreciate this is going to take dogged determination and Years of very hard work then forget it.

 

Work out the amount of steel plate you will need.....and double it

Work out the time it will take.....................................and double it

Work out the cost......................................................and double it

 

Good luck which ever way you jump but remember a lot of people start down that road but very very few get to the end.

 

 

edit to protect me from the wrath of the spelnig and punchyouashun faeries.

Edited by John V
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Alan de Enfield Veteran II

Alan de Enfield

Posted
Posted (edited)

Loads of cheap potential livaboards on the site. Wooden hulls £10k upwards.

 

Solid hull with good engines - 'going concern'

 

http://www.findafishingboat.com/macduff/ad-70126

 

a2799a69-f1ae-4d92-8b9c-626d8d77310f_lar

 

And for £3500 you can have this 12 metre :

 

http://www.findafishingboat.com/fishing-trawler/ad-73379

 

6b45c384-ba93-4222-89e7-08e4a03ed12e_lar

Edited by Alan de Enfield
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Woodsy Collaborator

Woodsy

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Posted (edited)

Further to John V's post above (62), it is my understanding (from older generation shipwrights) that welding plates onto riveted hulls can be fraught with danger and should be only undertaken by a very skilled boilermaker.

I would suspect that as the vessel is an old fishing boat an area at significant risk of corrosion would be under the fish hold (ice & salt being used to keep the catch fresh), which then drains & collects into the fish hold bilges, this is most likely the compartment bilges that have been concreted up and therefore very difficult to confirm the bottom plates condition, without removing the boat from the water, historically the forefoot / bottom of anchor chain lockers can be another problem area, as well as the area of hull that is just above and below the waterline.

Basically to ensure you know full well what you are getting into, as mentioned above, it would be best to get the vessel out of the water for a full hull survey, and also confirm if any specialist welding procedures & equipment (old school techniques) will be required to effect any repairs to riveted hull sections.

Edited by Woodsy
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Paul G2 Rising Star

Paul G2

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Posted

Would definitely go along with that Alan.....nice looking boat (I suspect the fuel consumption would be awesome though)

under certain circumstances I could be tempted smile.png

 

That 12 meter has a Gardner 6LX in it. Depending on their condition, £3,750 might be a good price for just the motor and gear.

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Paul G2 Rising Star

Paul G2

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Id like to think as im a welder by trade and building beautiful structures out of metal is something I regularly do it would look quite nice indeed.infact the new addition on deck would be shorter in height than the current wheelhouse and the same length and position as the current setup above deck including wheelhouse,you truly have no idea what you are talking about concerning what I can or cannot build or how I would do it . nevertheless Thank you Paul and to everyone who has chatted to me,I think I obviously need to think about passing on this one and saving for longer.i may still hire the gauge and test it.if nothing else it will be easy to say no if i find problems and its all experience after all. If I do buy it I'll let you all know.happy new year to all.

 

I certainly didn't mean to disparage your welding ability. However, you could be the best welder in the world and your two story idea still won't work.

 

There isn't a way on earth that you are going to make that, or any boat like it, into a two deck boat and keep the forward cabin roof below the existing pilot house roof. The hull is not deep enough for what you want to do, it's really as simple as that.

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