Can't undo the gas!

[Loafer]

Sorry, I beg to differ, many aircraft go into the hangar with empty tanks - otherwise how do you carry out fuel tank maintenance?

 

There are exceptions to every rule. A whole fleet of Tucanos at RAF Linton-On-Ouse get put to bed, every day, with full tanks.

 

I've never really known one to need fuel tank maintenance, so it probably is quite rare.

 

Refuelling can't take place during high risk of lightning so OCCASIONALLY they'd get put away not full - but usually get refuelled later when the lightning risk has reduced to zero. The view is that part-filled aviation fuel tanks are an explosion hazard, whereas a full one isn't.

 

As far as can recall!

[Naughty Cal]

I hope you don't miss out breakfast, elevenses and a deep fried Mars bar for supper!

And brunch

[Phil Ambrose]

And general between meal grazing.

Phil

[bottle]

little and often is the best practice.

[Lmcgrath87]

little and often is the best practice.

I manage the 'often' bit, just struggling with the 'little'

[nb Innisfree]

Has said "hubs" failed his bottle changing certificate too?

My missus doesn't need any certificate, she's very good at bottle changing, as soon as it's empty it's straight in the bin and a new one uncorked and pouring.

[spannerman]

 

There are exceptions to every rule. A whole fleet of Tucanos at RAF Linton-On-Ouse get put to bed, every day, with full tanks.

Standard operating procedure for the aircraft type perhaps. As a counter argument, an E3-D Sentry never routinely sits on the ground with full fuel tanks.

 

I've never really known one to need fuel tank maintenance, so it probably is quite rare.

Having spent nigh on 35 years in aviation maintenance, predominately in the Depth environment, I would suggest it is a very common occurrence

 

Refuelling can't take place during high risk of lightning so OCCASIONALLY they'd get put away not full - but usually get refuelled later when the lightning risk has reduced to zero. The view is that part-filled aviation fuel tanks are an explosion hazard, whereas a full one isn't.

Well, at least we can agree on something - your last sentence

As far as can recall!

 

My bold

Edited November 6, 2015 by spannerman

[nicknorman]

Ref aircraft tanks, no I would not say it is not universal practice to always put aircraft away full. Certainly not with our helicopters as (apart from the wondrous EC225) you couldn't take off with full fuel and full passengers. The last thing you wanted to be doing at 6am was de-fuelling. Instead they were put away with a moderate fuel state that would be the minimum, and then topped up on the morning according to the weather and payload.

 

Our tanks also has crash proof (resistant!) rubber bags for fuel tanks, so they required maintenance from time to time. Light aircraft tend not to be put away full either in my experience.

 

In fact it is when you are not going to put it away that it is perhaps important to refuel, since outside overnight there can be big temperature changes that could cause condensation, inside the hangar much less so. If you are concerned about sparks or other ignition sources getting into the fuel tanks and igniting the vapour, I suggest that you have more important things to worry about than overnight fuel state.

Edited November 6, 2015 by nicknorman

[Emerald Fox]

And debate "What's the best make of spanner for the job"

 

When I passed my bus driving test in St Albans many moons ago, the driving examiner asked me one last question:

"What's the biggest nut on a bus?"

....

 

"The Nut behind the steering wheel!" he said.

[Emerald Fox]

Just done mine . 2 minute job. Old one out new one in.

 

Hmmm.... I'm imagining our scene. Gas flickers and splutters and goes out.

Get clothes on for going outside, grab headtorch. Walk along bank, step in dog's poo. Leave boots outside, get trainers on and walk along gunwhale.

Walk back along gunwhale as have forgotten Calor gas spanner. Tie the string to belt loop (so it can't drop into canal).

Back to gas locker, open lid, close gas bottle tap, put spanner to nut. Stop. Walk back to kitchen along gunwhale to get hammer. Back to gas locker, tap spanner (clockwise) with hammer, keep turning, remove nozzle carefully, place somewhere so it doesn't drop to bottom of gas locker.

Nozzle drops to bottom of gas locker. Say F...ishfingers!

Haul out old empty (OK - full with propane at atmospheric pressure) bottle and edge along gunwhale with it banging against leg, dump on deckboards. Back to gas locker, remove plastic plug from new bottle, reach down for nozzle, stick in hole and begin twisting with fingers until tightish, apply spanner, do up hand tight and then an extra UNK! Make sure strap secures bottle firmly muttering that must get something done about that awkward clip.

Open gas bottle valve hoping for no sudden explosion(s). All quiet. Close lid and jump off and walk back pleased that job done. Step in dog poo again. Wonder why Maffi don't come up this way ever and clear it up.

Leave trainers outside, turn on cooker knob holding match nearby the hob, knowing that there might already be some air in the pipe and might take a few seconds for gas to come through.

10 minutes?

Really not fun when raining/cold.

[Naughty Cal]

 

Hmmm.... I'm imagining our scene. Gas flickers and splutters and goes out.

Get clothes on for going outside, grab headtorch. Walk along bank, step in dog's poo. Leave boots outside, get trainers on and walk along gunwhale.

Walk back along gunwhale as have forgotten Calor gas spanner. Tie the string to belt loop (so it can't drop into canal).

Back to gas locker, open lid, close gas bottle tap, put spanner to nut. Stop. Walk back to kitchen along gunwhale to get hammer. Back to gas locker, tap spanner (clockwise) with hammer, keep turning, remove nozzle carefully, place somewhere so it doesn't drop to bottom of gas locker.

Nozzle drops to bottom of gas locker. Say F...ishfingers!

Haul out old empty (OK - full with propane at atmospheric pressure) bottle and edge along gunwhale with it banging against leg, dump on deckboards. Back to gas locker, remove plastic plug from new bottle, reach down for nozzle, stick in hole and begin twisting with fingers until tightish, apply spanner, do up hand tight and then an extra UNK! Make sure strap secures bottle firmly muttering that must get something done about that awkward clip.

Open gas bottle valve hoping for no sudden explosion(s). All quiet. Close lid and jump off and walk back pleased that job done. Step in dog poo again. Wonder why Maffi don't come up this way ever and clear it up.

Leave trainers outside, turn on cooker knob holding match nearby the hob, knowing that there might already be some air in the pipe and might take a few seconds for gas to come through.

10 minutes?

Really not fun when raining/cold.

What you need is a gas locker that is under the cockpit covers.

 

No need to get wet changing the bottle and no risk of standing in dog deposits.

[Emerald Fox]

I try to put my bus to bed each night with the tank full or reasonably full, in case it is called out to be used on an Express route, eg. if the Kokkola-Oulu bus breaks down, or the Oulu-Turku bus.

It's 200 kilometres between Oulu & Kokkola, and my bus is the only one on that line.

Buses could be summoned from Alavieska or Kannus but they would take 40 minutes to get to Road 8, and I'm right on it and live 10 minutes bicycle ride from my 'garage/depot' (the home for 1 bus!).

(so far I've only had to go and personally rescue those Oulu-Kokkola Expresses twice in 2 years, but there was a third time when an Express driver broke down here and grabbed my bus himself).

It's quite scary when you think how remote we are here from 'civilization'. So we try not to think about it!

[Rickent]

My bus just goes back to the depot each night and sleeps there.

Back to the subject of gas, my gas locker is in the bow and spanner is attached to chain in said locker, it is under cover and there is a light overhead so it really is a 2 minute job. The hardest part is walking the plank with the full gas bottle.

[MtB]

You lot need a changeover valve. Turn the lever 180 degrees when the gas runs out then change the empty bottle in daylight, at your leisure...

 

Just remember to do it though, haha!

[Guest]

You lot need a changeover valve. Turn the lever 180 degrees when the gas runs out then change the empty bottle in daylight, at your leisure...

 

Just remember to do it though, haha!

Or even better one that changes over automatically.

 

Just don't run both cylinders down though, check occasionally to see if one has emptied.

Edited November 6, 2015 by MJG

[MtB]

Or even better one that changes over automatically.

 

Just don't run both cylinders down though, check occasionally to see if one has emptied.

 

 

NO!

 

Then they both empty, invisibly, and you're back to square one.

[Guest]

NO!

 

Then they both empty, invisibly, and you're back to square one.

That's why I said check periodically to see if one has emptied,

 

 

at your leisure in the light and when it's not peeing down.

[Southern Star]

I try to put my bus to bed each night with the tank full or reasonably full, in case it is called out to be used on an Express route, eg. if the Kokkola-Oulu bus breaks down, or the Oulu-Turku bus.

It's 200 kilometres between Oulu & Kokkola, and my bus is the only one on that line.

Buses could be summoned from Alavieska or Kannus but they would take 40 minutes to get to Road 8, and I'm right on it and live 10 minutes bicycle ride from my 'garage/depot' (the home for 1 bus!).

(so far I've only had to go and personally rescue those Oulu-Kokkola Expresses twice in 2 years, but there was a third time when an Express driver broke down here and grabbed my bus himself).

It's quite scary when you think how remote we are here from 'civilization'. So we try not to think about it!

That must be a beautiful drive, how on earth did you end up doing that?

[Delta9]

Ref aircraft tanks, no I would not say it is not universal practice to always put aircraft away full. Certainly not with our helicopters as (apart from the wondrous EC225) you couldn't take off with full fuel and full passengers. The last thing you wanted to be doing at 6am was de-fuelling. Instead they were put away with a moderate fuel state that would be the minimum, and then topped up on the morning according to the weather and payload.

 

Our tanks also has crash proof (resistant!) rubber bags for fuel tanks, so they required maintenance from time to time. Light aircraft tend not to be put away full either in my experience.

 

In fact it is when you are not going to put it away that it is perhaps important to refuel, since outside overnight there can be big temperature changes that could cause condensation, inside the hangar much less so. If you are concerned about sparks or other ignition sources getting into the fuel tanks and igniting the vapour, I suggest that you have more important things to worry about than overnight fuel state.

Would a non-full aircraft fuel tank be any sort of an explosion risk at all? As far as I'm aware Jet A is not that dissimilar from diesel so I can't see why an aircraft's tank (while stationary) would be any more dangerous than that of a narrowboat. Surely a half filled car petrol tank would be riskier as petrol has a lower flash point than jet A.

[MtB]

It's the vapour in a fuel tank that ingites. Fill it to the top and there is little space for any vapour.

[Delta9]

It's the vapour in a fuel tank that ingites. Fill it to the top and there is little space for any vapour.

How flammable is jet A fuel vapour when sat in a stationary fuel tank? I would guess at 'not very', about the same as the diesel vapour in a boat tank.

[Rickent]

You lot need a changeover valve. Turn the lever 180 degrees when the gas runs out then change the empty bottle in daylight, at your leisure...

 

 

 

 

Have one of those too. ..

 

 

 

have one of those too. ....

Just remember to do it though, haha!

Edited November 6, 2015 by Rickent

[RLWP]

How flammable is jet A fuel vapour when sat in a stationary fuel tank? I would guess at 'not very', about the same as the diesel vapour in a boat tank.

 

Not very

 

AVGAS is though

 

Richard

[Delta9]

 

Not very

 

AVGAS is though

 

Richard

Indeed. But surely no worse than a car's tank half full of petrol?

[RLWP]

Indeed. But surely no worse than a car's tank half full of petrol?

 

I think we start to run into stuff about risk and construction. It's easy to run away from a car fire, aeroplane fires kill you and people on the ground

 

Aeroplane fuel tanks are often part of the wing, full of baffles, stringers and rivets where car tanks are often a single piece these days. The possibility of leaks is greatly increased. Isn't it the SR-71 that leaks like a sieve on the ground?

 

I suspect a leaky fuel tank is safer in the air than on the ground. Airflow carries the stuff away

 

Where am I going with this?

 

Richard