Running a gas fridge

[Bro]

I know gas powered fridges are fitted to some boats but are new installations approved for use in boats nowadays? If so are there any particular safety issues (for burning, ventilation, whatever)?

 

I have it in mind to use Dometic RM5310 gas/12v fridge, or similar, which might run on 12v when engine is running and gas when not.

 

All comments gratefully accepted.

[MtB]

I know gas powered fridges are fitted to some boats but are new installations approved for use in boats nowadays? If so are there any particular safety issues (for burning, ventilation, whatever)?

 

I have it in mind to use Dometic RM5310 gas/12v fridge, or similar, which might run on 12v when engine is running and gas when not.

 

All comments gratefully accepted.

 

 

The main problem is a gas fridge must be installed in accordance with the manufacturer's instructions, and most (all?) gas fridge instructions do not say they are suitable for installation in boats.

 

 

(Edit to add a missing worm.)

Edited September 22, 2015 by Mike the Boilerman

[Timx]

• I have a three way fridge, have had it go on gas, but a struggle, and hard to know its lit without feeling outside for vent heat. Not had it work on 12 or 240, not found anyone who sorts them out, but has just passed its BSS and did not want to ask for advice in case he failed it.[had boat three yrs now ] Trying to find a competent person to sort out a little fridge has so far been impossible.

[MtB]

 

• I have a three way fridge, have had it go on gas, but a struggle, and hard to know its lit without feeling outside for vent heat. Not had it work on 12 or 240, not found anyone who sorts them out, but has just passed its BSS and did not want to ask for advice in case he failed it.[had boat three yrs now ] Trying to find a competent person to sort out a little fridge has so far been impossible.

 

 

What do you mean by 'sorts them out'? Get it working on 12v and 240v? Or something else?

I'm sure the board can offer a bit of guidance to help you 'sort it out' yourself...

[blackrose]

I have the Dometic RM5310. I would either run it on mains at the mooring or gas when not. You can run it on 12v with your engine running, but don't forget to go back to mains or gas when you switch the engine off otherwise it will flatten the batteries quick. It's not a very efficient 12v fridge.

 

As far as I can make out, the main reason Dometic say they're not suitable for installation on boats is because they must stay level, so it's not such an issue on canal boats. However, that probably won't help you if you have any warranty issues.

Edited September 23, 2015 by blackrose

[colmac]

We have one working on gas only. Apart from being a bit small and difficult to light we have no problems with it. Now, I was given to understand that gas fridges can no longer be fitted on boats but I am sure there are those on this site with a better understanding of these things who will clarify this.

[alan_fincher]

. Now, I was given to understand that gas fridges can no longer be fitted on boats but I am sure there are those on this site with a better understanding of these things who will clarify this.

 

There was a period when the BSS did not allow them as a new fit or a replacement.

 

However that was dropped very many years ago, (for privately owned boats), and trhe BSS no longer restricts them being installed.

 

However independently the BSS people recommend use of electric fridges as better practice, but do not insist on it.

 

In my view they have never been able to present data that suggests there are great dangers from a gas fridge properly installed. It is of course possible to find evidence where an LPG fridge that is improperly installed or not properly maintained has killed, but this is no different from solid fuel stoves or generators or a badly made engine exhaust has resulted in fatalities. Many things that aren't installed and kept in good order have the potential to be a killer.

 

However finding a professional prepared to fit one may be harder, as their codes of conduct, (or other factors), may make them unwilling to, even though the BSS allows it.

Edited September 23, 2015 by alan_fincher

[system 4-50]

Somewhere I've seen a figure of 7 degrees as the maximum tilt for this sort of fridge. Obviously this could easily be exceeded on a yacht, but not on a canal boat, and as fridge manufacturers don't know the difference between yachts and canal boats, they say they are unsuitable for boats.

I don't know if over "n" degrees they are dangerous or they just don't work efficiently. Do our gas gurus know?

[sueb]

If you need a gas fridge serviced take it to a caravan repair place. Ours was very reliable and I loved it.

[alan_fincher]

Somewhere I've seen a figure of 7 degrees as the maximum tilt for this sort of fridge. Obviously this could easily be exceeded on a yacht, but not on a canal boat

 

 

You clearly were not one of those observing what happened to us in a lock a few weeks back then!

 

I have to say that with one end of the boat hung on the bottom gates, with the other end rapidly falling in the lock, the number of degrees tilt on my gas fridge was the last thing that actually passed through my mind as it was happening!

[bizzard]

My Electrolux 122 gas-12v is something like 25 years old as I bought it 15 years ago s/h. It's been excellent, though I do service it yearly.

[X Alan W]

 

• I have a three way fridge, have had it go on gas, but a struggle, and hard to know its lit without feeling outside for vent heat. Not had it work on 12 or 240, not found anyone who sorts them out, but has just passed its BSS and did not want to ask for advice in case he failed it.[had boat three yrs now ] Trying to find a competent person to sort out a little fridge has so far been impossible.

 

A good few of this type of fridge have a small viewing window ( to check if it's alight) it's in the bottom left corner, a small round window, when looking inside the unit if fitted you should be able to see a blue pilot type flame

[bizzard]

Or hold your hand over the exhaust, it should be warm.

[system 4-50]

 

You clearly were not one of those observing what happened to us in a lock a few weeks back then!

 

I have to say that with one end of the boat hung on the bottom gates, with the other end rapidly falling in the lock, the number of degrees tilt on my gas fridge was the last thing that actually passed through my mind as it was happening!

I'm assuming that your antics don't come under the category "easily"! Perhaps "routinely" would have been better.

[colmac]

Our gas fridge has the smallest viewing port to see if the pilot light is on but, if you lie on your belly with your head in the fridge it is possible to see it. Not to be confused with the oven though.

[alan_fincher]

Our gas fridge has the smallest viewing port to see if the pilot light is on but, if you lie on your belly with your head in the fridge it is possible to see it. Not to be confused with the oven though.

 

One of the problems is that what some have as a viewing "window" is actually a transparent tube with a flat surface at both ends, so you are actually trying to view through two layers of (often not particularly!) transparent perspex, not just the one. Add to that that often water droplets form on some of those surfaces, and it can be surprisingly hard to see the flame, particularly as they are meant to burn blue with no hint of yellow.

 

Yes we have on occasions provided amusement having someone half shut in the fridge door, with some kind of "blanket" thrown over the lot. At which point, of course you may not be able to reach and correctly operate the controls, making lighting the fridges on occasion actually a two person job!

[Paul C]

Do they have a flame failure device?

[alan_fincher]

Do they have a flame failure device?

 

Yes, of course they do.

 

Surely any gas flame in this kind of circumstance that burns continually unmonitored has to?

 

I don't think BSS allows anything whatsoever now to be fitted that does not, does it, (other than the "legacy" exemption for gas hobs already installed prior to a certain date - in 2000? possibly, if I'm remembering correctly).

 

[tongue_in_cheek] I suspect it is the total "over-zealousness" of the FFD fitted to LPG fridges that can make them such buggers to keep alight on occasions![/tongue_in_cheek]

[Paul C]

Somewhere I've seen a figure of 7 degrees as the maximum tilt for this sort of fridge. Obviously this could easily be exceeded on a yacht, but not on a canal boat, and as fridge manufacturers don't know the difference between yachts and canal boats, they say they are unsuitable for boats.

I don't know if over "n" degrees they are dangerous or they just don't work efficiently. Do our gas gurus know?

 

This link says "not suitable for boats of ANY kind"

 

http://www.obrienscamping.co.uk/caravan_fridges/RM5310.htm

[bizzard]

They need servicing from time to time, burners removing and cleaning, flue sweeping and the gas jet cleaning-probing. The jet will very, very gradually become reduced by goo, as do cooker jets and when it gets blocked to a certain degree and the flame reduces correspondingly it will not keep the fail safe therm-couple heated sufficiently to keep the burner alight and the fridge will shut down or will not remain alight when you let go the gas knob when starting up the fridge.

[cuthound]

These 3 way fridges are absorption type fridges. That is they have a refrigerant of water and (usually) ammonia, and cool by using a heat source to evaporate the ammonia.

 

The gas and 240v heaters are thermostatically controlled, but the 12v one isn't, hence the high current consumption. The 12v heater was only intended as a temporary measure whilst for example to keep the food cool whilst a caravan was being towed to a site.

 

The reason why the manufacturers don't recommend them for boats is as System 4-50 says, the manufacturers cannot be bothered stating which types of boat are or are not suitable. After all their main market is caravans.

 

If the fridge tilts beyond a certain angle the flame no longer heats up the refrigerant and moves off the flame failure device, causing the fridge to stop working.

 

I had one of these for 10 years in a shareboat, with no real issues. It is a pity they are no longer popular. They are a much more battery friendly solution than any electric fridge. Quieter too.

[MtB]

The other problem with gas fridges is as Bizzard mention, they need servicing, and it rarely gets done.

 

Nothing difficult about servicing a gas fridge technically, but emptying the fridge of food, withdrawing it from it's space and turning it around to access the burner at the back, all whilst maintaining the gas connection is a right faff. So no-one bothers.

 

In addition I've seen fridges built in and THEN the gas connection made, making servicing it impossible as it can't be removed without disconnecting the gas pipe.

Edited September 24, 2015 by Mike the Boilerman

[cuthound]

The other problem with gas fridges is as Bizzard mention, they need servicing, and it rarely gets done.

 

Nothing difficult about servicing a gas fridge technically, but emptying the fridge of food, withdrawing it from it's space and turning it around to access the burner at the back, all whilst maintaining the gas connection is a right faff. So no-one bothers.

 

In addition I've seen fridges built in and THEN the gas connection made, making servicing it impossible as it can't be removed without disconnecting the gas pipe.

On our first shareboat, the valley was "U" shaped. The fridge was in the end of the "U" so both front and back were accessible. (The back via a removable panel). The flue rose up through a wooden channel that also acted as the support leg for a high level cupboard. A well thought out design.

[MtB]

On our first shareboat, the valley was "U" shaped. The fridge was in the end of the "U" so both front and back were accessible. (The back via a removable panel). The flue rose up through a wooden channel that also acted as the support leg for a high level cupboard. A well thought out design.

 

 

Yes this is the way I like to see them. Very rare though. Even better if the fridge is installed at 'eye level' so the flame (and the gas piping) is not down at bilge level.

Edited September 24, 2015 by Mike the Boilerman

[sueb]

You have to empty an electric fridge every time you leave the boat.