Don't trust the Trust anymore.

[Guest]

Or just spoof the GPS location from the comfort of your own bed...

 

Indeed anything can be faked.

[RLWP]

I became Ill, and wanted to keep on the water but just do the minimum amount of miles, and stay within the rules, the enforcement officer where I am now has told me I haven't moved enough and will be on a reduced term licence next year

 

I suspect this will be at the crux of this. John's interpretation of enough vs the enforcement officer's

 

Richard

[Chewbacka]

The full transcript will be available to everyone next week.

What amazed me is that CART never asked or bothered to get a full transcript. Even though there was no judgement or ruling etc. The Judge does however offer some very sensible opinions and advice to CART concerning such matters as ccers who require regular medical attention and even goes as far as expressing an opinion on the different expectations CART should have from older ccers or ccers with medical problems

If C&RT had a copy of the transcript then they may have had to disclose it under a FOI request. No copy, so they have nothing to disclose. That does not mean that their law firm does not have a copy, just that C&RT don't.

[tidal]

 

There is also this-

 

http://www.waterexplorer.co.uk/

 

Or is that what you were talking about?

 

and this

http://www.e-canalmapp.co/

 

And neither of them are the one I was thinking about

[Rob-M]

I wonder how many who voted supporting CRT are CC'ers or/and live aboards? I wonder how many cruise regularly outside of thier marina....or even have a boat?

 

It's only when you use a boat in CRT waters that you are likely to come across CRT nonsense.

 

Indeed, as someone else mentioned, CRT's plan is working.

I have boated several hundred miles this year including many local trips up and down the Gloucester and Sharpness whilst my home mooring was there but also on the Severn, Droitwich, Worcester Birmingham, Grand Union, Coventry, Trent and Mersey, Staffs and Worcs, Stourbridge, BCN and not had any issues with CRT. In fact those CRT staff that I have met have been friendly and helpful, certainly not had any CRT nonsense.

 

Edit to add: Also, I keep a log for personal use such as engine hours, time between places etc and I use a GPS tracker to overlay my journey on to a Google Map but it is for my own personal use not to prove where I have been.

Edited September 15, 2015 by Rob-M

[magnetman]

 

This thread isn't about hordes of boats mooring wherever they like for as long as they like. It about the alleged harassment and threatening of someone who appears to be doing nothing more than the law permits.

Apologies.

[bassplayer]

I have boated several hundred miles this year including many local trips up and down the Gloucester and Sharpness whilst my home mooring was there but also on the Severn, Droitwich, Worcester Birmingham, Grand Union, Coventry, Trent and Mersey, Staffs and Worcs, Stourbridge, BCN and not had any issues with CRT. In fact those CRT staff that I have met have been friendly and helpful, certainly not had any CRT nonsense.

 

Edit to add: Also, I keep a log for personal use such as engine hours, time between places etc and I use a GPS tracker to overlay my journey on to a Google Map but it is for my own personal use not to prove where I have been.

I've always said most of the CRT front line are helpful and nice. I've praised them up at times on this forum.

 

It's the unnecessary signs, enforcement and lack of maintenance in places too.

[Naughty Cal]

I've always said most of the CRT front line are helpful and nice. I've praised them up at times on this forum.

 

It's the unnecessary signs, enforcement and lack of maintenance in places too.

Do you believe that there should be no enforcement then?

[Tony Dunkley]

 

I suspect this will be at the crux of this. John's interpretation of enough vs the enforcement officer's

 

Richard

 

The 1995 BW Act allows that, in circumstances such as those stated by the OP, 'enough' movement is in fact, no movement.

[Paul C]

 

The 1995 BW Act allows that, in circumstances such as those stated by the OP, 'enough' movement is in fact, no movement.

 

The OP hasn't detailed - neither do I expect them to detail - the extent of the illness/medical condition. Whether CRT can reasonably ask for detail is another matter - I'd respect anyone who didn't want to give their medical information to CRT.

[mayalld]

 

The 1995 BW Act allows that, in circumstances such as those stated by the OP, 'enough' movement is in fact, no movement.

 

Not so.

 

Tony Dunkley's interpretation of the 1995 Act says that.

[Tony Dunkley]

 

The OP hasn't detailed - neither do I expect them to detail - the extent of the illness/medical condition. Whether CRT can reasonably ask for detail is another matter - I'd respect anyone who didn't want to give their medical information to CRT.

 

Details need not be divulged to anyone. The necessity to exceed the 14 day limit arose from the necessity to attend Doctor / Hospital appointments, and that in itself is quite sufficient.

[johnswateryadventures]

Thank you all for your replies, they have been interesting reading.

 

The point I am interested in is that if you are constantly cruising and through no fault of your own become ill, are the trust going to help you or harrass you ? I don't want them to come round with flowers and chocolates, but allowing an overstay costs them nothing, and affects no one else. Its just common courtesy.

 

What I want to do is get a mooring for the rest of this year, but there are none anywhere near where I am now, it is not an easy option. And I am already getting treatment at the hospital here, as you know that takes weeks to set up. In the end it will come down to whether the trust allows me to stay in the area for my medical treatment or not, if they don't I will take them to court. There can't be a situation where constant cruisers are denied medical treatment, or enforcement officers personal opinions on whether someone can move boats by just looking at them overrides doctors recommending they don't.

 

To make it clear, I don't want to stay here, and I am not trying to engineer a free mooring. I had planned to be 100 miles away by now.

[johnswateryadventures]

Thank you all for your replies, they have been interesting reading.

 

The point I am interested in is that if you are constantly cruising and through no fault of your own become ill, are the trust going to help you or harrass you ? I don't want them to come round with flowers and chocolates, but allowing an overstay costs them nothing, and affects no one else. Its just common courtesy.

 

What I want to do is get a mooring for the rest of this year, but there are none anywhere near where I am now, it is not an easy option. And I am already getting treatment at the hospital here, as you know that takes weeks to set up. In the end it will come down to whether the trust allows me to stay in the area for my medical treatment or not, if they don't I will take them to court. There can't be a situation where constant cruisers are denied medical treatment, or enforcement officers personal opinions on whether someone can move boats by just looking at them overrides doctors recommending they don't.

 

To make it clear, I don't want to stay here, and I am not trying to engineer a free mooring. I had planned to be 100 miles away by now.

[bassplayer]

Do you believe that there should be no enforcement then?

Yes, it's the police's job to enforce the law.

[Paul C]

 

Details need not be divulged to anyone. The necessity to exceed the 14 day limit arose from the necessity to attend Doctor / Hospital appointments, and that in itself is quite sufficient.

 

Yeah its a tricky one to judge because there's just so little solid information in the original post. It mentions hospital appointments, and I agree with you that should be enough.

 

Given the above, all the talk about logging is irrelevent. The boater wants to be in the same place (for the appointments). If its a longer term issue (we simply don't know - but there is a suggestion it could be given the OP wants to do much less cruising) then that too must be judged on its merits, not guesswork.

 

EDIT: cross posted with the reply from the OP above.

Edited September 15, 2015 by Paul C

[RLWP]

Thank you all for your replies, they have been interesting reading.

 

The point I am interested in is that if you are constantly cruising and through no fault of your own become ill, are the trust going to help you or harrass you ? I don't want them to come round with flowers and chocolates, but allowing an overstay costs them nothing, and affects no one else. Its just common courtesy.

 

What I want to do is get a mooring for the rest of this year, but there are none anywhere near where I am now, it is not an easy option. And I am already getting treatment at the hospital here, as you know that takes weeks to set up. In the end it will come down to whether the trust allows me to stay in the area for my medical treatment or not, if they don't I will take them to court. There can't be a situation where constant cruisers are denied medical treatment, or enforcement officers personal opinions on whether someone can move boats by just looking at them overrides doctors recommending they don't.

 

To make it clear, I don't want to stay here, and I am not trying to engineer a free mooring. I had planned to be 100 miles away by now.

 

Thanks for coming back and clarifying that John. Are you prepared to say whereabouts you are?

 

Oh, and welcome to the forum

 

Richard

[Naughty Cal]

 

Thanks for coming back and clarifying that John. Are you prepared to say whereabouts you are?

 

Oh, and welcome to the forum

 

Richard

Good idea.

 

Someone in the area may have a free/spare mooring the OP could use to keep CRT happy for a while.

Yes, it's the police's job to enforce the law.

What do you expect the police to do about a boat owner not complying with the licence requirements?

 

It's bugger all to do with the police

[Tony Dunkley]

 

Not so.

 

Tony Dunkley's interpretation of the 1995 Act says that.

 

Yes, it does, and it's the same interpretation that any right thinking and reasonable individual or organization would also place upon it.

The problem in this instance, as in others, is that C&RT's way of assessing whether someone is fit to continue moving their boat about so strongly resembles the way the builders of the Burma Railway assessed the fitness to work of the PoW's in their care.

Edited September 15, 2015 by Tony Dunkley

[RLWP]

If it helps, Ian Rogers is responsible for enforcement ian.rogers@canalrivertrust.org.uk. Sean Williams is the welfare officer sean.williams@canalrivertrust.org.uk

 

I'm not sure if this is exactly their remit, the Mark Chester, Senior Waterways Chaplain is Mark Chester markwith29@gmail.com. You might find some help through him

 

Richard

[bassplayer]

Good idea.

 

Someone in the area may have a free/spare mooring the OP could use to keep CRT happy for a while.

 

What do you expect the police to do about a boat owner not complying with the licence requirements?

 

It's bugger all to do with the police

Maybe most of CRT's licencing requirements have got bugger all to do with the law? So the police rarely need to get involved.

[Jerra]

Maybe most of CRT's licencing requirements have got bugger all to do with the law? So the police rarely need to get involved.

Surely the police only get called in for criminal law?

[Tony Dunkley]

Thank you all for your replies, they have been interesting reading.

 

The point I am interested in is that if you are constantly cruising and through no fault of your own become ill, are the trust going to help you or harrass you ? I don't want them to come round with flowers and chocolates, but allowing an overstay costs them nothing, and affects no one else. Its just common courtesy.

 

What I want to do is get a mooring for the rest of this year, but there are none anywhere near where I am now, it is not an easy option. And I am already getting treatment at the hospital here, as you know that takes weeks to set up. In the end it will come down to whether the trust allows me to stay in the area for my medical treatment or not, if they don't I will take them to court. There can't be a situation where constant cruisers are denied medical treatment, or enforcement officers personal opinions on whether someone can move boats by just looking at them overrides doctors recommending they don't.

 

To make it clear, I don't want to stay here, and I am not trying to engineer a free mooring. I had planned to be 100 miles away by now.

 

John, it is not up to the Trust to decide whether or not you can stay close to where you're undergoing treatment. The decision that someone may stay in one place beyond the 14 day limit if circumstances made it reasonable to do so, was made by Parliament in 1995 and cannot be altered except by another Act of Parliament.

You don't need permission from C&RT to stay put whilst undergoing medical treatment, you already have that permission from a higher authority.

[Dave_P]

Yes, it's the police's job to enforce some of the law.

There you go, fixed it for you.

 

In fact many authorities exist which are tasked with enforcing different laws. For example, I work for a local authority. Local Authorities have various enforcement powers across a range of legal areas, such as parking offences, fly tipping, anti-social behaviour (sometimes in partnership with the police, sometimes not), noise complaints, the movement of gypsies and travellers.. I could go on...

 

Other authorities include, the Highways Agency, the DVLA, The HSE, HMRC, The serious fraud office, and, of course, Navigation Authorities (of which CRT is one)

[magnetman]

 

John, it is not up to the Trust to decide whether or not you can stay close to where you're undergoing treatment. The decision that someone may stay in one place beyond the 14 day limit if circumstances made it reasonable to do so, was made by Parliament in 1995 and cannot be altered except by another Act of Parliament.

You don't need permission from C&RT to stay put whilst undergoing medical treatment, you already have that permission from a higher authority.

"Reasonable" is the new "place"