Minimum distance? The enforcement officers have it in black and white.

[Jerra]

CC-er though...wouldn't normally have a local job, so would be able to visit that town for a full 14days.

An interesting point Dean but I get the impression many CCers who aren't tied to an area still work, what many do and call working from home whether on land or on a boat. They still have to work so aren't as free as you suggest.

 

It would be interesting to know what proportion of CCers work in a local area, what proportion work from home and the rest who I assume are either retired or of independent means. Sadly I doubt if the figures exist anywhere

[cotswoldsman]

 

It would be interesting to know what proportion of CCers work in a local area, what proportion work from home and the rest who I assume are either retired or of independent means. Sadly I doubt if the figures exist anywhere

Why would that be interesting?

[Steilsteven]

Intention is a notoriously subjective quantity to apply objective values to. A retired, boat owning couple of relatively independent financial means and a decade or two of hard earned freedom in front of them, might, in fact almost certainly would adopt, an entirely different approach to mobility than a weekender or a hire boat captain.

 

A day here, a week there, a month in some handy location, is much more likely to be the pattern of someone under no legal pressure from the continuous aspect of cruising. Their overall intention may be to navigate as many canals as they can before health and mortality decide otherwise, but the immediate intention might be decided by nothing more objective than the weather on a given day. Keeping moving in a leisure craft on an exclusively recreational transport system is more a state of mind than a quantifiable activity. The rules are an attempt to address factors that have been allowed to develop since the canals were a working transport hub, but fail to do so because they don't account for how people use the cut in practice.

Totally agree, have a greenie.

 

Keith

[bassplayer]

Why would that be interesting?

Maybe there's nothing decent on TV...

Edited July 20, 2015 by bassplayer

[Jerra]

Why would that be interesting?

Simply because any data about anything which gives more insight into things is (to me at least) interesting. I think it is something to mind with having an enquiring mind.

 

However to bring it to boating things, perhaps if CRT realised the proportions of CCers who fell into any particular category they might (note the word might) be able to act accordingly. For example it is often (on here at least) stated that CMers/bridge hoppers/p takers (call them what you will) are so few they are no problem to anybody. If it could be proved this was the case (with data to back it up) then CRT might (again note the word) be able to stop spending a fortune on something which has little or no effect.

 

However John you question (as very often now) came over as very defensive. It seems it is impossible to mention CCing without your hackles rising so to speak. I realise you will say your hackles weren't rising but that is how you come over.

 

CCing is a perfectly legal way to use the canals and it is possible to mention/discuss it without being against it. Please try to remember that.

 

Incidentally the reason I think it is interesting is all I should have need to put in the post but I am sure there would have been some sort of comeback from somebody it that was all I said.

[Doodlebug]

I thought you were allowed 14 days in one place. How long would it take to get back to Bristol and return with your,Windlass/socks/solar panel?

 

You might have spent 14 days in bristol, set off, returned for one day (7 days later) and then if CRT caught you they would think you have been there 21 days. Potentially leaving you with 175 pounds to pay for overstaying.

 

In theory.

 

-----

 

Don't know if this is much help but we CC and both have work. My girlfriend is full time at university and I work 3/4 days a week and work from home the other 3.

 

Our cruising circle is 291 miles long (there and back). Admittedly we don't always make it to the far reaches of that every year. Depending on winter moorings etc. We take a weeks holiday at least each year to head off exploring.

 

If we didn't bother to go off exploring and only cruised in the area that is easy for work it is a distance of 140 miles (there and back). Though we don't do that.

 

This year we might only manage 200.

 

It all comes down to where you work, what transport you use and I suppose whether the salary justifies the commuting costs. Otherwise it might be easier to live in the middle of a cruising circle.

[cotswoldsman]

Simply because any data about anything which gives more insight into things is (to me at least) interesting. I think it is something to mind with having an enquiring mind.

 

However to bring it to boating things, perhaps if CRT realised the proportions of CCers who fell into any particular category they might (note the word might) be able to act accordingly. For example it is often (on here at least) stated that CMers/bridge hoppers/p takers (call them what you will) are so few they are no problem to anybody. If it could be proved this was the case (with data to back it up) then CRT might (again note the word) be able to stop spending a fortune on something which has little or no effect.

 

However John you question (as very often now) came over as very defensive. It seems it is impossible to mention CCing without your hackles rising so to speak. I realise you will say your hackles weren't rising but that is how you come over.

 

CCing is a perfectly legal way to use the canals and it is possible to mention/discuss it without being against it. Please try to remember that.

 

Incidentally the reason I think it is interesting is all I should have need to put in the post but I am sure there would have been some sort of comeback from somebody it that was all I said.

Firstly yes I am very defensive of ccers after nearly 9 years on here with all the normal ccer threads it is my default position. I think it is a great way of life and needs to be defended from those that misunderstand what it is all about.

For example the it is perfectly possible to work and cc you just need to plan your location and route. For example to work in Wolverhampton and cc is easy giving you most probably nearly 200 miles of cruising.

Edited July 20, 2015 by cotswoldsman

[jenlyn]

Simply because any data about anything which gives more insight into things is (to me at least) interesting. I think it is something to mind with having an enquiring mind.

 

However to bring it to boating things, perhaps if CRT realised the proportions of CCers who fell into any particular category they might (note the word might) be able to act accordingly. For example it is often (on here at least) stated that CMers/bridge hoppers/p takers (call them what you will) are so few they are no problem to anybody. If it could be proved this was the case (with data to back it up) then CRT might (again note the word) be able to stop spending a fortune on something which has little or no effect.

 

However John you question (as very often now) came over as very defensive. It seems it is impossible to mention CCing without your hackles rising so to speak. I realise you will say your hackles weren't rising but that is how you come over.

 

CCing is a perfectly legal way to use the canals and it is possible to mention/discuss it without being against it. Please try to remember that.

 

Incidentally the reason I think it is interesting is all I should have need to put in the post but I am sure there would have been some sort of comeback from somebody it that was all I said.

You strike me sometimes as being a bit of a Cc stalker

[Woodstock]

A friends daughter has just put a deposit on a boat which she will live on with her husband and 2 sons and I quote part of her conversation from the weekend

We're going to moor it at Branston because that's where we work

 

For those who don't know the area- there isn't a Marina, they're going to live on the towpath in one place

 

They have done little if any research and don't understand the obligations of ccing. They see it as a cheap and idyllic way of living and don't know much about boats- they've had one holiday on the broads

 

Is this a widespread issue and if so how can people be educated in advance. I don't know if they're a one off or there's lots of people with this mentality who don't research and just rush in

[Jerra]

You strike me sometimes as being a bit of a Cc stalker

There are times you strike as a complete .............

[Steilsteven]

A friends daughter has just put a deposit on a boat which she will live on with her husband and 2 sons and I quote part of her conversation from the weekend

We're going to moor it at Branston because that's where we work

 

For those who don't know the area- there isn't a Marina, they're going to live on the towpath in one place

 

They have done little if any research and don't understand the obligations of ccing. They see it as a cheap and idyllic way of living and don't know much about boats- they've had one holiday on the broads

 

Is this a widespread issue and if so how can people be educated in advance. I don't know if they're a one off or there's lots of people with this mentality who don't research and just rush in

They should have a look at the Canal and River Trust website for all the info on moorings and continuous cruising.

They will soon discover the flaw in their plans.

Yes, there are too many people who rush in and then come unstuck.

 

Keith

[matty40s]

A friends daughter has just put a deposit on a boat which she will live on with her husband and 2 sons and I quote part of her conversation from the weekend

We're going to moor it at Branston because that's where we work

For those who don't know the area- there isn't a Marina, they're going to live on the towpath in one place

They have done little if any research and don't understand the obligations of ccing. They see it as a cheap and idyllic way of living and don't know much about boats- they've had one holiday on the broads

Is this a widespread issue and if so how can people be educated in advance. I don't know if they're a one off or there's lots of people with this mentality who don't research and just rush in

There are indeed a lot of new buyers with this kind of mindset.

Brokerages were supposed to be working with CRT from 2 years ago to try to stem this lack of knowledge, but still you see boat adverts "own your own home for £xxxx" with no other meaningful advice. Gizz yer money, London is right at the marina entrance is a common philosophy at one.

 

Some have never heard of CRT - which is probably why they have had to change the licence at point of sale process.

 

Branston is lovely, at the moment, but will soon be a massive housing estate with 48 hr moorings or NO Moorings due to residents complaints .

[bassplayer]

There are indeed a lot of new buyers with this kind of mindset.

Brokerages were supposed to be working with CRT from 2 years ago to try to stem this lack of knowledge, but still you see boat adverts "own your own home for £xxxx" with no other meaningful advice. Gizz yer money, London is right at the marina entrance is a common philosophy at one.

Some have never heard of CRT - which is probably why they have had to change the licence at point of sale process.

Branston is lovely, at the moment, but will soon be a massive housing estate with 48 hr moorings or NO Moorings due to residents complaints .

It's ironic really. People presumably move to a residence overlooking a canal because they like the charm of the canal and the narrow boats (only shiny ones mind).

[Nightwatch]

I'm a continuous leisure boater. I live on my boat with my better half and two dogs for leisure. We enjoy it, we see parts of the system, eventually anyway, that we haven't seen before.

 

I think that those that work in a particular place, and rely on being within reasonable distance of place of work, or even schools for children, must find it tiresome and sometimes difficult to stay within the guidelines of boating and not having a mooring.

 

I know that we had to be patient and wait until we could both give up work before moving onboard to avoid to having to keep going over the same ground over and over again. If people like to do this then that's fine by me. We didn't want to.

 

Martyn

[nicknorman]

Firstly yes I am very defensive of ccers after nearly 9 years on here with all the normal ccer threads it is my default position. I think it is a great way of life and needs to be defended from those that misunderstand what it is all about.

 

But there is a difference between defending (CCers etc) and being defensive. The former is perfectly reasonable, but only kicks in when said thing is under attack. The latter as a "default position" brings to mind "the lady doth protest too much" in other words, behind defensiveness is often a feeling of guilt or whatever. But since you have nothing to feel guilty about its hard to see where your defensiveness comes from other than it being a misplaced desire to defend those not under attack. It does you and your cause no favours, and whilst I am being up-front the same applies to Steve. If you could bring yourself to avoid the one-liner snipes and sarcasm aimed at putting down whoever dares to mention the subject, your "proper" points would receive more respect.

[jenlyn]

But there is a difference between defending (CCers etc) and being defensive. The former is perfectly reasonable, but only kicks in when said thing is under attack. The latter as a "default position" brings to mind "the lady doth protest too much" in other words, behind defensiveness is often a feeling of guilt or whatever. But since you have nothing to feel guilty about its hard to see where your defensiveness comes from other than it being a misplaced desire to defend those not under attack. It does you and your cause no favours, and whilst I am being up-front the same applies to Steve. If you could bring yourself to avoid the one-liner snipes and sarcasm aimed at putting down whoever dares to mention the subject, your "proper" points would receive more respect.

The usual rubbish from the usual suspect. I think perhaps you should take a look in the mirror.

Some pretty hypocritical remarks from you in that post.

(please note, three lines).

[Locksprite]

When I first met my wife, almost twenty five years ago, she was good friends with a number of boaters who might be described as part of an "alternative" lifestyle community. Though not a boater herself, I remember her first showing me her friend's vessels, which ranged from pristine to dilapidated, and thinking what a friendly, non-judgemental bunch they appeared.

 

All the boats were licensed but few seemed to move, and those not very far. They were quite near a busy canal hub, but moored on the edge of it, and as far as I could tell didn't cause anyone harm or inconvenience. I find it sad that such groups, which are probably closer to a bargee community than subsequent boating groups, should be seen as a problem requiring uncompromising solutions. It shows how things have changed in the last quarter century I suppose.

[nicknorman]

When I first met my wife, almost twenty five years ago, she was good friends with a number of boaters who might be described as part of an "alternative" lifestyle community. Though not a boater herself, I remember her first showing me her friend's vessels, which ranged from pristine to dilapidated, and thinking what a friendly, non-judgemental bunch they appeared.

 

All the boats were licensed but few seemed to move, and those not very far. They were quite near a busy canal hub, but moored on the edge of it, and as far as I could tell didn't cause anyone harm or inconvenience. I find it sad that such groups, which are probably closer to a bargee community than subsequent boating groups, should be seen as a problem requiring uncompromising solutions. It shows how things have changed in the last quarter century I suppose.

It's a matter of scale. One such small group of "bargees" (I really hate that term!) is no great problem especially in the context of an under-used canal system of 25 yrs ago. But if the concept proliferates, and in the current generally busy canal system, then it can be a problem as per London etc. And before anyone says it, London seems to be getting slightly better but only because of the enforcement regime.

 

Like any limited resource, when pressure on that resource increases one has to be more careful and regulatory in how it is used.

[cotswoldsman]

But there is a difference between defending (CCers etc) and being defensive. The former is perfectly reasonable, but only kicks in when said thing is under attack. The latter as a "default position" brings to mind "the lady doth protest too much" in other words, behind defensiveness is often a feeling of guilt or whatever. But since you have nothing to feel guilty about its hard to see where your defensiveness comes from other than it being a misplaced desire to defend those not under attack. It does you and your cause no favours, and whilst I am being up-front the same applies to Steve. If you could bring yourself to avoid the one-liner snipes and sarcasm aimed at putting down whoever dares to mention the subject, your "proper" points would receive more respect.

This might come as a surprise but I am not looking for respect I simply post as I see it. Not sure what my cause is other than to debate on all sorts of subjects.

[nicknorman]

This might come as a surprise but I am not looking for respect I simply post as I see it. Not sure what my cause is other than to debate on all sorts of subjects.

I didn't mean respect for you, I meant respect for your argument/point. Surely there is no point in putting forward an argument with no hope or desire that the point will be respected? Well I suppose a humorous post maybe, but even humour can be respected!

 

Anyway, I've made my point and debating it further is unlikely to achieve anything.

Edited July 20, 2015 by nicknorman

[rufus2015]

I was talking to a CRT person the other day, and he said the trust is now just a business to get as much money in as possible, while spending as little as possible, maintainance work is not being done because its too expensive. His hours have been cut, and he's doing more work for less money. Staff morale is at rock bottom.

[matty40s]

Yet they can turn their collective noses up at £400k of roving winter moorings.

[cotswoldsman]

I didn't mean respect for you, I meant respect for your argument/point. Surely there is no point in putting forward an argument with no hope or desire that the point will be respected? Well I suppose a humorous post maybe, but even humour can be respected!

Anyway, I've made my point and debating it further is unlikely to achieve anything.

Respected by who? I would rather ensure I state my opinion than play to the audience if people do not like what I say that is fine, at least I have expressed my view.

[Locksprite]

It's a matter of scale. One such small group of "bargees" (I really hate that term!) is no great problem especially in the context of an under-used canal system of 25 yrs ago. But if the concept proliferates, and in the current generally busy canal system, then it can be a problem as per London etc. And before anyone says it, London seems to be getting slightly better but only because of the enforcement regime.

 

Like any limited resource, when pressure on that resource increases one has to be more careful and regulatory in how it is used.

Well yes, I agree that unchecked live aboard groups could constitute a problem to navigation and use of the tow paths, but the people I'm referring to weren't in that category at all, they simply enjoyed living in close proximity to one another. In many ways they represented security for boaters and other canal users on one of the remoter rural stretches.

 

While there are hotspots of overcrowding there are also miles of canal, especially near me in the north, where you wouldn't encounter another boat from one pound to the next, nor indeed through a day's cruising. Addressing that reality by one size fits all legislation is simply poor management and lazy thinking. My concern is it's not the reality of what or how people use the canals that's the issue, but the fact some people use them as a certain kind of unapproved "getaway" from modern living, while other shinier, official kinds, are seen as representing tradition, even when that tradition is a fantasy based on something (working boats), that expired long ago.

[Paul C]

Well yes, I agree that unchecked live aboard groups could constitute a problem to navigation and use of the tow paths, but the people I'm referring to weren't in that category at all, they simply enjoyed living in close proximity to one another. In many ways they represented security for boaters and other canal users on one of the remoter rural stretches.

 

While there are hotspots of overcrowding there are also miles of canal, especially near me in the north, where you wouldn't encounter another boat from one pound to the next, nor indeed through a day's cruising. Addressing that reality by one size fits all legislation is simply poor management and lazy thinking. My concern is it's not the reality of what or how people use the canals that's the issue, but the fact some people use them as a certain kind of unapproved "getaway" from modern living, while other shinier, official kinds, are seen as representing tradition, even when that tradition is a fantasy based on something (working boats), that expired long ago.

 

That's a good argument for regionalisation of the rules. It will probably happen via local council byelaws.