Canalplan timings.

[Southern Star]

How accurate do other folk find the timings on Canalplan? We've got from Brinklow to Rugeley, and put 27 hours on the engine meter. According to Canalplan, from here back to Brinklow should be 23 hours. It doesn't matter, I'm just wondering whether I'm travelling at a lower speed than they calculate, or whether this discrepancy is the typical experience of others?

[Burgiesburnin]

The first time that we rented I printed out the Canalplan because I had a fear of getting the boat back late. I always felt that I was slower than they though the route should take.

The discrepancy that you mention is about the same as I experienced.

[john6767]

The time you get from canalplan depends totally on the average speed and locks per hour fingeres that you us. If you use values that match what you do then you will get the right time!

[GeoffS]

You can set the timings in Canalplan to suit your own normal speeds. I don't bother with that anymore though but use Canalplan to tell me how many Locks and Miles its going to be and then I add these together and divide by 3 which is my long term average speed. Sometimes its a bit slower sometimes quicker but over a long period it has been accurate.

[StephenA]

The defaults that Canalplan uses are:

 

 

Some people say that it over estimates, some that it under estimates. You can always adjust these if you know that they don't match your normal working pattern but at the end of the day Canalplan is there really just as a guide to give you an idea if something is possible.

[Burgiesburnin]

I used the default ones as I didn't know any better.

I only learned later that you could set the other stuff.

[alan_fincher]

Unless we hit queues at locks, we have always tended to get along faster than CanalPlanAC's default settings predict.

 

We therefore use modified settings that mean our actual experience comes closer to what CanalPlanAC comes up with. In particular, we tend to do locks a lot quicker than their defaults.

 

We couldn't work out initially last year why it was predicting a day on the Leeds and Liverpool would not see us getting anything like as far as we anticipated. Then we discovered it was set to 10 minutes delay at each moveable bridge, and we had (I think) something like 18 to do that day, for which it was allowing no less than 3 hours. We set it to zero minutes instead of 10, and suddenly things looked far more sensible. (We had someone on a bike doing most of these bridges, so they were not really taking any time out of our cruising day at all.....)

[StephenA]

We couldn't work out initially last year why it was predicting a day on the Leeds and Liverpool would not see us getting anything like as far as we anticipated. Then we discovered it was set to 10 minutes delay at each moveable bridge, and we had (I think) something like 18 to do that day, for which it was allowing no less than 3 hours. We set it to zero minutes instead of 10, and suddenly things looked far more sensible. (We had someone on a bike doing most of these bridges, so they were not really taking any time out of our cruising day at all.....)

 

But if there are only a couple of you and you need to pull over, put crew off, wait for the bridge to open, go through, pull back in and wait for crew to get back on then 10 minutes isn't that unreasonable (especially as it can't factor in time for traffic delays).

[Jess--]

I generally look at the mileage and work out my timings based on an average of 2 mph (usually I'm not far out)

[alan_fincher]

 

But if there are only a couple of you and you need to pull over, put crew off, wait for the bridge to open, go through, pull back in and wait for crew to get back on then 10 minutes isn't that unreasonable (especially as it can't factor in time for traffic delays).

 

Absolutely - and if it's Plank Lane, 10 minuts probably will not see your first break in the traffic, based on the only time we have tried it.

 

I'm an enormous fan of CanalPlanAC, but was only stressing that if the timings matter to people, they need to do their own tweaking.

 

Sometimes you need to tweak "regionally" as well. When we went both ways over the Pennines last year, on both the L&L & the Rochdale it is very much the norm for every broad lock to be about 10 feet deep, and typically often only have two working top paddles. We simply could not knock these locks off at the same speed as on the Southern GU, with average falls more like 6 feet, and often 6 top end paddles. Simply adjust the defaults to acknowledge your time per lock is likely to be longer.

 

I could be facetious, and suggest it needs parameters like "typical queing time at Wardle lock", which you would then set to about 3 hours at the busiest times, but I realise Nick can't cater for people who wish to do macramé at every lock, and to only ever open one paddle by about 25% until the lock has nearly made a level.

 

Wonderful piece of software, and constantly improving.

I generally look at the mileage and work out my timings based on an average of 2 mph (usually I'm not far out)

 

I bet that doesn't work too well if you are going up through Tardebigge that day, though!

[StephenA]

 

Absolutely - and if it's Plank Lane, 10 minuts probably will not see your first break in the traffic, based on the only time we have tried it.

 

I'm an enormous fan of CanalPlanAC, but was only stressing that if the timings matter to people, they need to do their own tweaking.

 

Sometimes you need to tweak "regionally" as well. When we went both ways over the Pennines last year, on both the L&L & the Rochdale it is very much the norm for every broad lock to be about 10 feet deep, and typically often only have two working top paddles. We simply could not knock these locks off at the same speed as on the Southern GU, with average falls more like 6 feet, and often 6 top end paddles. Simply adjust the defaults to acknowledge your time per lock is likely to be longer.

 

I could be facetious, and suggest it needs parameters like "typical queing time at Wardle lock", which you would then set to about 3 hours at the busiest times, but I realise Nick can't cater for people who wish to do macramé at every lock, and to only ever open one paddle by about 25% until the lock has nearly made a level.

 

 

 

theoretically each bit of canal can have its own speeds and we did look at building in some analysis (based on GPS tracking) which would start building up "real" speed data for each length which could then be compared with your speed over those sections and use that to auto adjust your speed settings.. The "tracking" feature of the Boat Index would be used as the basis of these calculations.

[DHutch]

Good thread.

 

We typically use the defaults, if only for speed and lack of better data, but also becuase we find they are quite good.

 

We good crew you can knock time off on the locks, but unless steaming hard we often balance that out with slight reduced over water speed, certainly on shallower narrow canals.

 

I think to get better you would have to have a lot more feedback, live progress etc. Certainly the likes of Google maps must get a lot of data back from users.

 

Daniel

[David Schweizer]

I have never used Canal Plan, but as an excercise, I compared the journey we have recently competed between Napton Junction and Venetian Marina (via Autherley Junction) with the daily log I keep. Canal Plan estimated 65 hours for the journey, we actually took 64.5 hours, so pretty accurate.

 

I have just entered our return journey via Middlewich and Harecastle etc which they estimate at 64 hours, which should be easily achievable in less than two weeks. We will see.

[StephenA]

Good thread.

 

We typically use the defaults, if only for speed and lack of better data, but also becuase we find they are quite good.

 

We good crew you can knock time off on the locks, but unless steaming hard we often balance that out with slight reduced over water speed, certainly on shallower narrow canals.

 

I think to get better you would have to have a lot more feedback, live progress etc. Certainly the likes of Google maps must get a lot of data back from users.

 

Daniel

 

Its getting the data and working out what is "abnormal" in the data sets. For example taking 25 minutes from Norbury Bridge to the embankment narrows on the other side of the junction is not right (unless you've stopped for fuel, a pump out, or a quick beer),

[WJM]

I always run slightly quicker than the defaults.

[b0atman]

Single handing then I seem to average 3 lock miles per hour luckily am travelling the L&L with another boat otherwise it would be 1 Lmp/h .

With the heat yesterday 1 bridge had expanded and jammed against the stone work so closed bridge and modified stonework To get bridge to open .

[cuthound]

For a typical (for me) 6-8 hours cruising per day, I usually improve on Canalplan's defaults by 30-40 minutes. This I find is a useful buffer for unplanned delays.

 

If in a hurry I can then cruise for the time saved to get ahead of schedule.

[StephenA]

For a typical (for me) 6-8 hours cruising per day, I usually improve on Canalplan's defaults by 30-40 minutes. This I find is a useful buffer for unplanned delays.

 

If in a hurry I can then cruise for the time saved to get ahead of schedule.

 

That's a very sensible thing to do.

[Southern Star]

Thanks for all of the info.

 

I will have a play with the defaults. My boat is fairly slow, in nearly a year I have never overtaken another boat, but have waved other boaters past on many occasions, the engine has a sweet spot at around 1400 rpm and any faster than that, the engine just doesn't sound as happy. I was on the T&M today, and I took timings between mileposts, these varied between 24 and 29 minutes depending on how many moored boats I was passing so I guess I'm travelling at just over 2 mph.

 

I'm not bothered though if I'm slow, I'm at Rugeley tonight and I have to be at Wrenbury on the Llangollen Canal on the 30th July to meet my kids from the train so I have all the time in the world.

[Theo]

I find that the really important information on CanalPlan is the overnight stops. If we have a deadline to arrive as long as we are ahead of them we are fine.

 

N

[mark99]

I use default but set the cruising time per day to 5 hours (default is 7). That's about my comfy limit as I do all the steering.

 

However what we do is use it to see roughly how long we need to book a holiday for.

 

If I was a ccer retired I would just cruise to "feel on the day".

 

If have have a persistent routing fault it's always feeling we are chasing the fecking clock!

Edited July 2, 2015 by mark99

[Big Bob W]

Really useful tool.

I find the defaults more or less spot on. The only thing to remember is to factor in a bit extra for queuing at locks etc during busy periods.

[DHutch]

I have never used Canal Plan, but as an excercise, I compared the journey we have recently competed between Napton Junction and Venetian Marina (via Autherley Junction) with the daily log I keep. Canal Plan estimated 65 hours for the journey, we actually took 64.5 hours, so pretty accurate.

Not bad that eh!

Its getting the data and working out what is "abnormal" in the data sets. For example taking 25 minutes from Norbury Bridge to the embankment narrows on the other side of the junction is not right (unless you've stopped for fuel, a pump out, or a quick beer),

Indeed, obviously with google maps there are thousands of users (if not more) using it from a mobile phone, relaying there position back as they go. They must feed this data back in, and I assuming it also provides the basis of traffic information that allows them to re-route you if there is a build up somewhere, and or adjust the time accordingly.

I often find I can set out on a 2h+ plus trip, leaving at half four on a Friday, and it will correctly forecast my eta within a few minutes even when passing Birmingham and Bristol. ON a Sunday morning there same trip will have the forecast right within a minute basically every time.

...I'm at Rugeley tonight...

Not more than 15-20minutes down the road!

 

Daniel

[George94]

I have been working on a journey time spreadsheet which is able to factor in tides on the Thames. It's quite a challenge because as you move along the tide could change direction, which means that the adjustment for current has to vary dynamically.

 

Obviously, the sheet needs to be linked to a tide table.

 

A complication is that the further upriver towards Teddington you go, the shorter the time between low and high tide, and the longer the time between high and low.

 

I will get there one day, but progress is slow. Even slower than fighting a 4 knot tide in a five knot boat.

[pipistrelle]

We found it quite useful as novice cruisers. The one annoying thing was arriving at Watford Locks and Canalplan giving no indication that we would likely have to wait a few hours because of them bringing up six boats each direction (this was Easter weekend), but hey ho. We did 11-12 hour days and it was pretty accurate.