How wide is a General Area?

[matty40s]

 

I would ventre to suggest that because their sighting records are patchy and don't/can't detect all boat movements they resort to the legally meaningless and deliberately vague term; "general area", in order to fire a waring shot towards you on the off chance that you have been overstaying at the same place.

 

I wouldn't waste time trying to ascertain from CRT what they mean by "general area". Instead I would be asking them to provide you with all the sighting records of XXXXXX so that you can check them against your actual movements. Only then will you have a true idea about what their records might "suggest".

I am pretty sure that in my trip to the BCN CHALLENGE and back -over 200 miles and 170 locks in two weeks, I was not logged by a single boat checker to my knowledge.

That is a BIG hole in an organisations data.

following on from the New Years data blackout.

I am currently planning a swift Leicester ring tour to pull in some outstanding jobs, and then probably disappearing off grid for the Smudge Festival at Northampton, where again, I will not be logged.

My character witnesses so far this year are smudge at New Year, richard parry at Bradley Workshops and most of the IWA leadership at the NIWA festival - I am quite sure I can cement myself as a valid person according to some kind of recording data.

[StarUKKiwi]

I take the view that this sort of tripe should be returned with a brief note indicating that you don't expect any more of it to be sent, and that it will be ignored if they do send any more. You could also point out that they are a navigation authority charged with maintenance and repair, and not an organization created and financed for the purpose of boat spotting and surveillance of individuals and their boats.

Any signs or indications from recipients that irrelevant and pointless enquiries such as this will be given any attention or credence will only encourage more of it.

That, is the best response I have ever seen, thank you and the greenie is from me!

[DHutch]

GPS tracker for every boat, done....

 

 

 

Daniel

[Tony Dunkley]

GPS tracker for every boat, done....

 

 

 

Daniel

 

Better suggestion . . . . . how about a competent, professional and sensible Navigation Authority that focuses it's attention on real issues ?

Edited June 26, 2015 by Tony Dunkley

[Higgs]

GPS tracker for every boat, done....

 

 

 

Daniel

 

 

Absolutely not. I'm not part of a haulage firm to be tracked. In fact, I haven't been on CRT water for over 2 years.

Edited June 26, 2015 by Higgs

[larkshall]

Ive suggested GPS trackers in a slightly different context. before.

 

I for one am going to fit one. linked to an electronic ships log.

[Alan de Enfield]

There's no change there, as the 14 day rule applied to us with moorings just as it does to anyone else.

 

The difference is that :

 

Boats without a home mooring have to be in a new 'place' (parish, area, - whatever the term is this week) every 14 days, whilst boats with a home mooring can move to a new 'location' (just a few 100 yards if they want) every 14 days.

 

The 14 day rule applies to all, but the distance required between moorings is different.

 

C&RTs new T&Cs have tried to overrule the 1995 Act and they are illegally trying to make boats with a home mooring comply with the rules for boats without a home mooring.

[spadefoot]

Perhaps CRT's system is not really up to the job. Not "fit for purpose" as they say. Maybe, they should ping an email to boaters every time they are clocked. Maybe, every boater should request sightings data from CRT regularly, once a fortnight perhaps. This could help form a "boaters' database" independent of CRT's records, which could be very helpful for anyone unfairly flagged up on CRT's radar.

[bassplayer]

Dare I mention it again. If CRT really want to work with their customer give us the option to update the data ourselves to fill in the gaps. Like some do with meter readings. CRT can do spot checks to make sure we're not telling porkies

[Naughty Cal]

Perhaps CRT's system is not really up to the job. Not "fit for purpose" as they say. Maybe, they should ping an email to boaters every time they are clocked. Maybe, every boater should request sightings data from CRT regularly, once a fortnight perhaps. This could help form a "boaters' database" independent of CRT's records, which could be very helpful for anyone unfairly flagged up on CRT's radar.

You can of course always keep your own log of your movements without wasting CRT's time. That way if you ever do find yourself on CRT's radar you can provide them with the evidence to prove that you have been moving more then their data suggests.

[Lady Muck]

Are you in London, Eggpie? They will send you letters like that if you spend most of your time in Hackney even though that 'general area' is quite big and encompasses more than one canal.

Got a friend who cced the Harlow area for two decades - only a range of about six miles. Old enforcement team were happy with that pattern of movement and my friend never had a ticket. Now with the new regime they are in trouble.

You can of course always keep your own log of your movements without wasting CRT's time. That way if you ever do find yourself on CRT's radar you can provide them with the evidence to prove that you have been moving more then their data suggests.

 

Weve always kept a log, not for this purpose, because it was drilled into my partner by his boat nut grandpa that you kept a log. We often mark our mooring spots with dates in our Nicholsons, usually for the purpose of finding the good ones again.

[spadefoot]

You can of course always keep your own log of your movements without wasting CRT's time. That way if you ever do find yourself on CRT's radar you can provide them with the evidence to prove that you have been moving more then their data suggests.

You're really good at missing the point aren't you. I keep a log as I'm sure a lot of others do. CRT treat us all as individuals, I didn't say "boater's database" I said "boaters' database". In other words, a large amount of information held by boaters collectively, which would or could be used at important times to show how well or badly CRT's system works.

[Paul C]

I've just received this nugget from CRT:

 

"Weve been looking at our sighting records and they suggest that your boat XXXXXX has been moored in the same general area for more than 14 days."

 

For context, imagine a journey of ABCD (actually much longer). Having travelled to D, the boat turns round and returns to somewhere fairly near C, but definitively not C. Lets call it C2.

 

I'm assuming that the spotters have missed the trip to D (definitely far enough), and I'd have accepted the warning if I'd overstayed at C (which the message suggests they accept I haven't done), so this must mean that they think C and C2 are too near each other.

 

How big is a "general area". Is it bigger than a neighbourhood or a place? Is there a map? If its okay to warn boaters who moor too near previously visited spots, how exactly should one make a return journey these days?

 

 

I can point out their error, with documentation

 

Okay I'll ask: what is the detail of the actual cruising that you've done that disproves their assertion? Ie what is the relevant documentation you have? I suspect its simply a case of their gaps in data logging throwing up a false positive - but it would be worth seeing in context your actual, detailed, movement log to see how far out they were.

[patty-ann]

These "spotters/checkers" that collate data cannot possibly see all movement of all boats..therin the argument I guess for tracker devices on board..but that can be seen as "big brother watching" and I feel thats a route that needs avoiding. Its infringement of our personal space.

Keeping a valid log can only assist both parties. However this I suppose could be open to "tweaking" by boaters in order to be seen to comply.

Action should only be taken on solid evidence or fact and its up to the individual if concerned too collate their own evidence.

This evidence then presented as fact should negate any false impressions CRT have on their sketchy reports.

I am not a cc, I have a mooring in a Marina and I chug out when my time permits but I tend to go same route, moor in same places as still building confidence to handle boat and have assistance of sister but I write extensive diaries plus a blog thus have contemporaneous records of what where Ive been.

You could set up on line blog and just write few words when move....peace of mind and dated on line record.

[bassplayer]

 

 

 

Okay I'll ask: what is the detail of the actual cruising that you've done that disproves their assertion? Ie what is the relevant documentation you have? I suspect its simply a case of their gaps in data logging throwing up a false positive - but it would be worth seeing in context your actual, detailed, movement log to see how far out they were.

Oh dear...false positive?

 

How about everyone being able to contribute to the same database?

[Paul C]

Oh dear...false positive?

 

How about everyone being able to contribute to the same database?

 

Are you asking what a false positive is?

 

I saw/read your previous suggestion. What would eggpie have entered into the database (is another way of asking the same question I previously asked)?

[bassplayer]

 

Are you asking what a false positive is?

 

I saw/read your previous suggestion. What would eggpie have entered into the database (is another way of asking the same question I previously asked)?

Are you suggesting eggpie would tell porkies? If you read my post you'd also see how CRT could wean out those who give false information. It works for major utility companies.

[Bobby-Joe]

What sort of log would be sufficient for them? I usually put everything on face book so if i was to make an album of mooring pics with dates would this do?

 

We are planning on getting a mooring when wev got our boat but if theres none in the area we plan on being we were going to cc till one cropped up.

Our business is in sheffield so fella needs to get back there wed planned lurking about from about barnby dun upto keadby back down to bramwith area turn round n go up the new junction. Would that be considered ok?

[RLWP]

Are you suggesting eggpie would tell porkies?

 

 

OK, ok - I'm gone

 

Richard

[Paul C]

Are you suggesting eggpie would tell porkies?

No

[bassplayer]

 

 

OK, ok - I'm gone

 

Richard

You've just made me feel hungry. Very good Richard!

[eggpie]

They will send you letters like that if you spend most of your time in Hackney

That's my point. I'd expect someone who stayed anywhere most of the time to get that letter (even if I don't necessarily agree with it). I received that for not moving far enough one time (although I didn't even do that..) If CRT can't define the size of a general area, how exactly are we supposed to avoid it? What happens to London Boaters when their arbitrary "general area" becomes the size of London?

 

I agree with you and everyone else about keeping a log, although lazily mine has tended lately to be more of the dated phone picture variety, so that's probably what I'd send them. Although I think I prefer Tony's suggestion of a carefully crafted response including the word "tripe"..

[Lady Muck]

That's my point. I'd expect someone who stayed anywhere most of the time to get that letter (even if I don't necessarily agree with it). I received that for not moving far enough one time (although I didn't even do that..) If CRT can't define the size of a general area, how exactly are we supposed to avoid it? What happens to London Boaters when their arbitrary "general area" becomes the size of London?..

If there are still what they deem to be too many cruisers in town, then they will make it bigger. Thats what I reckon.

[Bod]

You can of course always keep your own log of your movements without wasting CRT's time. That way if you ever do find yourself on CRT's radar you can provide them with the evidence to prove that you have been moving more then their data suggests.

 

This will only work if the Trust accept your records, as being better than theirs!

 

Bod

[Murflynn]

 

How big is a "general area". Is it bigger than a neighbourhood or a place? Is there a map? If its okay to warn boaters who moor too near previously visited spots, how exactly should one make a return journey these days?

 

 

about 3 inches on my map.

no there isn't unless you want to borrow mine.

by train.

 

 

 

I still fail to understand this pre-occupation with defining the rules on CCing unless those who are thus pre-occupied know they are already on the borderline of failing to comply because they are using the canal as a convenient place to live on their boat while they commute to the same place of work for months/years on end, which of course is not and never will be 'cruising'.