Feedback on hire boats : what hire companies should know (and act on) !

[mango]

 

A centre line is a handling rope, and unsuited for mooring.

 

Unlike the for and aft ropes, it's point of action is high up, which means that if it is used for mooring, it will have a tendency to cause the boat to roll as boats pass, and if the ground is soft will work its pin loose in no time.

 

If you need additional security in mooring, then unhitch the centre rope, and use it to set a spring line, but using it in its rooftop position is a waste of time.

Justin was referring to short term use at a lock, usually tied to a bollard.

[Justin Smith]

 

A centre line is a handling rope, and unsuited for mooring.

 

Unlike the for and aft ropes, it's point of action is high up, which means that if it is used for mooring, it will have a tendency to cause the boat to roll as boats pass, and if the ground is soft will work its pin loose in no time.

 

If you need additional security in mooring, then unhitch the centre rope, and use it to set a spring line, but using it in its rooftop position is a waste of time.

 

I would agree that its high up attachment is not best suited to mooring (other than as a temporary thing), but they`re never long enough to run from the front of the boat via a bollard or pin to the back of the boat so how (other than using the high up attachment) could it be used as a third rope ? Ever since that aforementioned incident with the dining boat on the K&A I`m never 100% relaxed about having only two lines when using mooring pins, particularly in soft ground. Even if the centreline is of limited use it does help me relax, even if it`s only psychological !

[mayalld]

 

I would agree that its high up attachment is not best suited to mooring (other than as a temporary thing), but they`re never long enough to run from the front of the boat via a bollard or pin to the back of the boat so how (other than using the high up attachment) could it be used as a third rope ? Ever since that aforementioned incident with the dining boat on the K&A I`m never 100% relaxed about having only two lines when using mooring pins, particularly in soft ground. Even if the centreline is of limited use it does help me relax, even if it`s only psychological !

 

The point is that it is worse than useless.

 

The most likely outcome of using a centre line in soft ground is that the boat will roll about, make you uncomfortable, and the pin will pull out.

 

The pin will then bang into the side of the boat.

 

A spring doesn't HAVE to go to both front and back.

 

Tie up as normal with fore and aft ropes at 45 degrees, then at one end or the other set a second rope running in the opposite direction.

[Rose Narrowboats]

 

The point is that it is worse than useless.

 

The most likely outcome of using a centre line in soft ground is that the boat will roll about, make you uncomfortable, and the pin will pull out.

 

The pin will then bang into the side of the boat.

 

A spring doesn't HAVE to go to both front and back.

 

Tie up as normal with fore and aft ropes at 45 degrees, then at one end or the other set a second rope running in the opposite direction.

Fully agree!

[Justin Smith]

How many on Canalworld are hirers ? And how many of you hire a boat and find stuff, often small things, on them really annoying ? Sometimes you tell the hire companies staff and sometimes you can`t be arsed, but even if you do bother mentioning it you wonder whether anyone in a position to actually do anything about it ever gets to hear about it ? I think us long suffering hirers should get on here and boat hire company owners who are really bothered about their boats should read it and act on it !

 

Our biggest gripe about many hire boats is lack of shelves. Surely they`re a relatively easy and cheap thing to fit yet so many hire boats have hardly any. We`ve just hired Katie`s Drum from Silsden boats and in many ways it was a well equipped boat, but unfortunately that was pretty much outweighed by the fact there was a chronic lack of shelves. There were none in either bathroom, just a narrow ledge in one and none at all in the other ! Where do the boats` designers expect you to put your toilet bag ? Even your toothbrush and cup (or your falsies if necessary ! )...... On the toilet or on the floor one assumes ? ! ? The bedrooms only had a pair of 4" x 12" (approx) shelves which didn`t even have a lip on them. Useless. I ended up putting my stuff in the living area next door to our cabin but those in the middle and back cabin didn`t even have that (rather impractical) option. Yet there was plenty of room for shelves, particularly at the foot end of the bed where nobody is going to bang their heads on them. What gives ?

 

It`s also very annoying that nearly all hire boats have never got any hooks anywhere. OK maybe one or two in the bathroom(s) but that`s about it. Never for anything like coats and stuff. Us hirers usually end up having to hang them off curtain rails or whatever else can be pressed into service, particularly when they`re wet and need drying out....

 

My parents have just stayed with us for a few days and I had to laugh. They took their stuff upstairs and unpacked. When I next went into the bathroom, there, on the already overcrowded windowsill, were two toiletry bags ! ! They`d have loved Katie`s Drum from Silsden boats, or to be fair, one of many other hire boats with the same flaw ! ! !

Edited May 15, 2015 by Justin Smith

[Justin Smith]

 

The point is that it is worse than useless.

 

The most likely outcome of using a centre line in soft ground is that the boat will roll about, make you uncomfortable, and the pin will pull out.

 

The pin will then bang into the side of the boat.

 

A spring doesn't HAVE to go to both front and back.

 

Tie up as normal with fore and aft ropes at 45 degrees, then at one end or the other set a second rope running in the opposite direction.

 

But if you`re adding a third line just in case a pin gets pulled out and it`s the other pin which gets pulled out, how does that help you ?

[Justin Smith]

 

Oh go on then.

Leeds Liverpool.

The Gargrave CRT water tap is OOU and it`s replacement is unusable for a long boat with its water filler at the front (as most do) heading West. The lock prevents the boat getting near enough for a standard length water hose to reach. Someone "in the know" told me this has been the case for about three years.......

Bridge 192 is so heavy that it`s on the verge of being unopenable, certainly for most women. All the dog walkers in the area knew that most boaters struggle with it so it must have been like that for some time.

The winding hole at Booth`s Bridge (just Nth of Keighley) desperately needs dredging, we grounded whilst turning. Of all the bits of a canal which should be kept well dredged it`s surely the winding holes....

Offtopic and negative but all very annoying, and all requiring rectification. I sent CRT an E Mail reporting the above but it remains to be seen if they`ll actually do anything.

 

The Leeds Liverpool is spectacular, surely one of the best, though all the swing bridges are a PITA, esp the ones which must have 50 (or more) boaters through them for every farm tractor !

 

I have heard back from the CRT and this is what they say :

 

With regard to the water point at Gargrave, we are looking at improvement works to these services in the future and possible reinstatement of the waterpoint, I have highlight the issue of the hose length asking for this to rectified in the meantime.

 

With regard to Bridge 192 the local supervisor sent his team to investigate and found the ball race was dry so filled it with water and is now ok, we will be asking for the servicing of the bridge to be increased due to this issue.

 

With regard to the turning point at Booth`s Bridge we had been keeping the water levels down in the area due to a leak into a residents property which has now been rectified and the water levels should be back up to normal in the area and turning here should be easier than you experienced recently.

 

I`m pleased they have given me an individual response, though if bridge 192 really was that easy to fix (can any other boaters on the L&L confirm that it`s been eased ? ) we must conclude it was never repaired because nobody reported it. If that`s the case I`m amazed, absolutely astounded in fact. How many boaters (all the dog walkers round there knew how heavy it was, it must have been like that for months ? ) have nearly put their backs out heaving that bridge open then closing it again, and nobody ever thought to tell the CRT !

Edited May 29, 2015 by Justin Smith

[Guest]

I have heard back from the CRT and this is what they say :

 

With regard to the water point at Gargrave, we are looking at improvement works to these services in the future and possible reinstatement of the waterpoint, I have highlight the issue of the hose length asking for this to rectified in the meantime.

 

With regard to Bridge 192 the local supervisor sent his team to investigate and found the ball race was dry so filled it with water and is now ok, we will be asking for the servicing of the bridge to be increased due to this issue.

 

With regard to the turning point at Booth`s Bridge we had been keeping the water levels down in the area due to a leak into a residents property which has now been rectified and the water levels should be back up to normal in the area and turning here should be easier than you experienced recently.

 

I`m pleased they have given me an individual response, though if bridge 192 really was that easy to fix (can any other boaters on the L&L confirm that it`s been eased ? ) we must conclude it was never repaired because nobody reported it. If that`s the case I`m amazed, absolutely astounded in fact. How many boaters (all the dog walkers round there knew how heavy it was, it must have been like that for months ? ) have nearly put their backs out heaving that bridge open then closing it again, and nobody ever thought to tell the CRT !

This simple truth is that reporting things and giving CRT the opportunity to fix it doesn't suite everybodies agenda, as it would give them nothing to moan about when stuff doesn't get sorted.

 

I am sure stuff must get reported that then take an age to get fixed but yes first port of call should always be CRT rather than moaning about it on here or Narrowboat World. Some just prefer to do the latter first.

[matty40s]

This simple truth is that reporting things and giving CRT the opportunity to fix it doesn't suite everybodies agenda, as it would give them nothing to moan about when stuff doesn't get sorted.

I am sure stuff must get reported that then take an age to get fixed but yes first port of call should always be CRT rather than moaning about it on here or Narrowboat World. Some just prefer to do the latter first.

Most stuff I report gets fixed pretty quickly.

I give precise location details,; precise nature of fault, and danger to users/public if applicable.

I also don't use the 0303 number, who don't usually have a clue what a lock is, never mind where it is you are reporting about. I use a contact met at a boaters meeting who does know what he is about.

[Guest]

Most stuff I report gets fixed pretty quickly.

I give precise location details,; precise nature of fault, and danger to users/public if applicable.

I also don't use the 0303 number, who don't usually have a clue what a lock is, never mind where it is you are reporting about. I use a contact met at a boaters meeting who does know what he is about.

Which of course is not really how it should operate. I used to find the biggest problem was getting those on the 0303 number to understand the geography/location of where I was talking about as they were completely unfamiliar with concepts like 'the sanitary station on Castleford Cut'. Somewhat unsurprising given they were probably a 100 miles away. So many organisations have gone down the same route of centralising initial contact with the public with too much resulting opportunity for things either to get lost in translation or completely lost all together.

 

Our local authority have done the same and I am still waiting on a replacement paper caddy from my recycling bin which went missing 5 weeks ago.

 

A couple of years ago I would have just been put through directly to the guy in charge of refuse collections and get it sorted.

[Justin Smith]

We`re going on the Broads again next year (cruisers with 3 separate bedrooms are more widely available / cheaper and we need a 3rd bedroom for his Grandparents whilst he`s an active toddler ! ) and can`t understand the apparent enthusiasm for "wet rooms" on the boats there.

Here`s a quote from "Norfolk Broads Direct" :

 

Toilet and shower (normally these are in the style of wet rooms, see each boat description for further details).

 

Also we hired Alpha Phantom in 2014 and one of the showers there was a wet room.

 

From memory none of the showers on any of the narrow boats we`ve hired have been wet room style.

I can`t see any advantages (other than for the disabled) of a wet room style shower, but can see loads of disadvantages, most obviously water all over the place ! Why do boat designers install wet room style showers ? How many boat owners have a wet room style shower ?

 

 

[FadeToScarlet]

 

I would agree that its high up attachment is not best suited to mooring (other than as a temporary thing), but they`re never long enough to run from the front of the boat via a bollard or pin to the back of the boat so how (other than using the high up attachment) could it be used as a third rope ? Ever since that aforementioned incident with the dining boat on the K&A I`m never 100% relaxed about having only two lines when using mooring pins, particularly in soft ground. Even if the centreline is of limited use it does help me relax, even if it`s only psychological !

Tying up with the centre rope will make the boat roll whenever anyone else comes past.

 

If you're only given a couple of little pins, I'd bring a few more with you. 3' long ground anchors are great for overnight stops in soft ground; or double pinning- putting a second pin in at an angle through the loop of the first, and bringing the rope through both loops- will be much more secure than a single pin in soft ground.

[Paul C]

I can`t see any advantages (other than for the disabled) of a wet room style shower, but can see loads of disadvantages, most obviously water all over the place ! Why do boat designers install wet room style showers ? How many boat owners have a wet room style shower ?

 

 

 

A wet room style shower makes much better use of the bathroom space on a boat. If you compare it with a regular shower cubicle, the cubicle's space is redundant 99% of the time, only to be used during having a shower. Water all over the place in a bathroom - not a problem - have a large shower curtain around the main standing area. Any leakage past this or lower down is easily dealt with by using the proper materials on the walls and sealing edges, floor etc properly.

[Justin Smith]

 

A wet room style shower makes much better use of the bathroom space on a boat. If you compare it with a regular shower cubicle, the cubicle's space is redundant 99% of the time, only to be used during having a shower. Water all over the place in a bathroom - not a problem - have a large shower curtain around the main standing area. Any leakage past this or lower down is easily dealt with by using the proper materials on the walls and sealing edges, floor etc properly.

 

But doesn`t that mean you get a wet floor every time you have a shower ? In my experience of cleaning floors if you don`t 100% dry them* you get dirt marks all over the place if you walk on them, even in slippers.

When you say it`s redundant 99% of the time, a shower cubicle is a good place to put wet clothes after washing (or rain....) to drip dry.

 

* This is actually quite difficult to do in practice, even using a cellulose sponge, unless you can leave it for a while for the floor to air dry. And that could be quite a while if it`s cold or damp ! I normally use kitchen roll but it`s wasteful because it can only be used once.

Edited November 7, 2015 by Justin Smith

[Southern Star]

How many boat owners have a wet room style shower ?

 

 

Mine does, at 42' it's a fairly short boat compared to some and so basically the toilet and shower make use of the same small space, and in fact the shower head also doubles up as the mixer tap for the sink so it crams a lot into a small space. Naturally the floor does get wet, I wipe it afterwards with a J cloth and it will be dry in a fairly short time.

[Jim Riley]

I'm fitting the innards from a caravan in my boat, so using the complete shower/sink/cassette toilet mouldings. A rubber squeegee blade works wonders removing excess water, we use one at home after a shower to keep the bathroom dryer.

[Cas446]

The most annoying thing on some hire boats, but not all, is pathetically small coffee mugs, no pint glasses and then really tall unstable wine glasses. The last being particularly annoying as they can't be stood anywhere on the boat except the deck so you end up dancing over them to get in and out of the boat.

 

So big coffee mugs, a load of pint glasses and some short wine glasses so that they can be stood on the curve of the roof.

 

Haven't read many of the other posts so apologies if already mentioned.

 

My only other grumble was a ridiculously smokey engine we had once. It was so bad my eyes used to water and get really irritated when in locks. When I complained they tried to fob me off with 'all boats are smokey' which is clearly rubbish and just meant they knew there was a problem. I think the engine must have been changed since then, as it appeared on tv recently and it looked fine.

[Paul C]

 

But doesn`t that mean you get a wet floor every time you have a shower ? In my experience of cleaning floors if you don`t 100% dry them* you get dirt marks all over the place if you walk on them, even in slippers.

When you say it`s redundant 99% of the time, a shower cubicle is a good place to put wet clothes after washing (or rain....) to drip dry.

 

* This is actually quite difficult to do in practice, even using a cellulose sponge, unless you can leave it for a while for the floor to air dry. And that could be quite a while if it`s cold or damp ! I normally use kitchen roll but it`s wasteful because it can only be used once.

Long handled squeegee, doesn't need to be bone dry. Central heating with rad in bathroom made it hottest room on the boat!

Edited November 9, 2015 by Paul C

[magictime]

From memory none of the showers on any of the narrow boats we`ve hired have been wet room style.

I can`t see any advantages (other than for the disabled) of a wet room style shower, but can see loads of disadvantages, most obviously water all over the place ! Why do boat designers install wet room style showers ? How many boat owners have a wet room style shower ?

 

 

 

 

But doesn`t that mean you get a wet floor every time you have a shower ?

 

The bathroom in our 24-footer was a tiny room opposite the galley - about 2ft wide by 4ft long (if that) - which is pretty typical for a lot of the old Springer-style boats. In that sort of space, there's just no question of having a separate shower cubicle - if you want a shower as well as a toilet, a wet room is the only way to go. It worked OK for us. Not exactly spacious, but perfectly usable. The 'water everywhere' wasn't an issue - the whole room was lined in plastic and the (plastic) floor had drainage holes in it. After a shower, the bathroom mat would be chucked back on the floor and hey presto, carpeted toilet compartment.

 

OK, that room was particularly small, but space on any boat is at a premium and I could absolutely see the sense in planning a boat with, say, a 4ft square wet room rather than a 4ft by 6ft bathroom with separate shower cubicle.

[Justin Smith]

 

 

The bathroom in our 24-footer was a tiny room opposite the galley - about 2ft wide by 4ft long (if that) - which is pretty typical for a lot of the old Springer-style boats. In that sort of space, there's just no question of having a separate shower cubicle - if you want a shower as well as a toilet, a wet room is the only way to go. It worked OK for us. Not exactly spacious, but perfectly usable. The 'water everywhere' wasn't an issue - the whole room was lined in plastic and the (plastic) floor had drainage holes in it. After a shower, the bathroom mat would be chucked back on the floor and hey presto, carpeted toilet compartment.

 

OK, that room was particularly small, but space on any boat is at a premium and I could absolutely see the sense in planning a boat with, say, a 4ft square wet room rather than a 4ft by 6ft bathroom with separate shower cubicle.

 

I can see your point on a 24ft boat, but Alpha Phantom is 42ft x 12ft ! In terms of floor area that`s the equivalent of an 84ft x 6ft narrow boat ! Hardy so short of space there ! !

[magictime]

 

I can see your point on a 24ft boat, but Alpha Phantom is 42ft x 12ft ! In terms of floor area that`s the equivalent of an 84ft x 6ft narrow boat ! Hardy so short of space there ! !

 

Not so short of space, no, but it's still going to take some planning to squeeze in three private bedrooms, a living area, a kitchen and two bathrooms! Saving even 4 square feet of space by choosing a wet room over a traditional shower room could be what makes it possible to fit a double bed rather than single bunks in that third bedroom, say.

 

Similarly, even on a 50ft narrowboat that few square feet saved on bathroom space could be what makes it possible to have, say, a proper double wardrobe in the bedroom. If I were having a boat built from scratch (unlikely!), I'd certainly give serious consideration to fitting a 4ft square wet room rather than a 'proper' 4ft by 6ft shower room in order to have extra space elsewhere.

[cuthound]

I stayed in a hotel with a wet room once.

 

Total disaster, the water from the shower soaked the toilet roll. Called room service and they said, "we are always getting calls about this".

 

Seemed beyond them to relocate the toilet roll holder!

 

Edited to make sense (they to them)

Edited November 9, 2015 by cuthound

[Justin Smith]

 

Not so short of space, no, but it's still going to take some planning to squeeze in three private bedrooms, a living area, a kitchen and two bathrooms! Saving even 4 square feet of space by choosing a wet room over a traditional shower room could be what makes it possible to fit a double bed rather than single bunks in that third bedroom, say.

 

Similarly, even on a 50ft narrowboat that few square feet saved on bathroom space could be what makes it possible to have, say, a proper double wardrobe in the bedroom. If I were having a boat built from scratch (unlikely!), I'd certainly give serious consideration to fitting a 4ft square wet room rather than a 'proper' 4ft by 6ft shower room in order to have extra space elsewhere.

 

I accept that almost all boats by their nature are going to be short of space, but unless very short of space (i.e. a 24ft cruiser) or a 35ft narrow boat, for me wet rooms are a "refinement" too far. It`s such a load of hassle that we actually used the onshore showers at the Norwich moorings rather than the shower on board. In fact, my in laws when they used to go caravanning (their caravan had a wet room) never used their shower, they always used the site`s showers. When we hired a camper van in NZ, that had a wet room, it was so much hassle to use it we never used the shower at all, we parked every other day at a site and used their facilities.

I do think it interesting that (from memory) none of the narrow boats we`ve hire have had a wet room, yet they have less space than the cruisers on the Broads !

[magictime]

 

I accept that almost all boats by their nature are going to be short of space, but unless very short of space (i.e. a 24ft cruiser) or a 35ft narrow boat, for me wet rooms are a "refinement" too far. It`s such a load of hassle that we actually used the onshore showers at the Norwich moorings rather than the shower on board. In fact, my in laws when they used to go caravanning (their caravan had a wet room) never used their shower, they always used the site`s showers. When we hired a camper van in NZ, that had a wet room, it was so much hassle to use it we never used the shower at all, we parked every other day at a site and used their facilities.

I do think it interesting that (from memory) none of the narrow boats we`ve hire have had a wet room, yet they have less space than the cruisers on the Broads !

 

It's all personal preference, I guess. I admit that we always used CRT showers when it was easy enough to do so, but then our wet room was particularly small and we also had to use a manual rather than an electric pump to get rid of the water afterwards. Now that really was a bit of a hassle! I'm not sure I see the hassle involved in using a decent-size wet room with a n electric pump, though.

[Justin Smith]

 

It's all personal preference, I guess. I admit that we always used CRT showers when it was easy enough to do so, but then our wet room was particularly small and we also had to use a manual rather than an electric pump to get rid of the water afterwards. Now that really was a bit of a hassle! I'm not sure I see the hassle involved in using a decent-size wet room with a n electric pump, though.

 

Everything (including the floor) gets wet. Having said that, as I`ve pointed out before, most hire boats have so few shelves/hooks fitted that it`s possible there won`t be much in there anyway !