Feedback on hire boats : what hire companies should know (and act on) !

[Justin Smith]

If no ample bathroom shelves are provided, i would just put my toothbrush and toothpaste on the side of the sink or at the back of the sink between the taps. Much like i do anywhere else i go.

 

I struggle to understand the importance. 90% of your time as a hirer is spent outside of the boat

 

The wash basins are minute thus the space behind the taps is minute. I actually think I`d have been struggling to balance the glass in that little space. And I`m a bloke, most women take Gawd knows what into the bathroom with them. It annoyed my wife intensely that she had to put it on the floor. Then there`s the bath bag. Most people I know have a little bag where they put their tooth brush, toothpaste and any ointments and stuff they use. This invariably gets put it straight in the bathroom when they unpack. But there`s nowhere to put it if there are no shelves in the bathroom. The next place they`d put it would be their bedroom, but there was no shelves in there either, so it ended up along with all my clothes and everything else in the only available storage which was the drawers under the bed.

But this is all a bit irrelevant because even if some people apparently don`t think it matters to have shelves in the bathroom (though I`ll bet you`ve got them in your bathroom, or at the very least a window ledge ! ) it`s not actually difficult to sort out. As an example Silsden boats put loads of expensive stuff in that boat to make it well equipped (like a large invertor, which we never used, but we`ll move on) yet don`t put in something simple and cheap like adequate shelves in the bathroom and bedroom. We were asking ourselves if these boat designers actually ever go boating in the boats they design ......

Edited May 6, 2015 by Justin Smith

[Rose Narrowboats]

Hire boat design..my favourite topic

 

Any boats that are designed to score well under the Tourist Board (or whatever it's called at the moment) scheme currently administered for them by the BMF should be okay as I know it is something their inspectors look for. You've got to balance that against the amount of time to taken to clean the boat and more seriously against the amount of time taken returning lost property to hirers - to this end where there is a choice we will tend to use open fronted cupboards so people have more chance of spotting little Jonny's/Jessica's Game Boy before they are on the M6...

 

We got into trouble with a bathroom shelf once - a very nice frosted glass one it was too, above and behind the taps. The boat came back with a stinging complaint that one of those on board had headbutted it and what were we thinking about putting where we had, etc etc. I was all set to string the boat fitting department up for this gross negligence until I remembered where it was (that was the first problem - it was exactly where I'd specified it) and secondly, it had been there for four years and no-one else had ever mentioned it, so I (with some reservations left it) and it's still there, with no problem another three years on.

 

We're not overly keen on hooks - too vulnerable in most locations, but each cabin has a wardrobe with coat hangers (matching of course, as specified in the Visit England scheme!) and there is a wet locker with more hanging space at the stern in all but one of our boats. To me, that wet locker is a must, but no one has ever complained about its abscence in Sunset to my knowledge. Her sister ship was 2' longer just to get it and I'm not sure I should have bothered now!

 

I think as a designer you have to be very careful about what you build. The OP's comment about whether the people who design these boats ever go boating on them is valid to a point - I suspect a lot of them don't or they'd make them easier to get on and off and handle better. However, when it comes to the internals, that's whole different ball game. What I want is irrelevant as it may not what the average customer wants - and most customers think they need a big inverter for example , possibly on the grounds that bigger must mean the boat as a whole is better - think electric windows and alloy wheels. You'd be amazed at some of the gadgets people have tried to bring on to our boats - that's a whole post in itself!

 

It fascinates me what some people regard as important on a holiday or in the design of boat and I can only hope we have ours about right because there are few recurring themes. Of those that do recur we can either do nothing about them (such as my favourite: "boat too narrow") or are related to safety (no seat for the helmsman, no steps onto the coach roof). It's also harder than you'd think to design a boat that looks good on a plan and in pictures that works as well as it looks for the majority when in use. We concentrate on the in use bit, possibly at the expense of some sales but I'd rather a customer return with their expectations exceeded than build something which looks great on the website but doesn't work in practice.

 

The people I do have sympathy for are the ones who complain we do not provide deckchairs. We used to, but after an accident involving a large quantity of wine, an improperly opened deckchair which collapsed, resulting in a cut hand and a compensation claim we were instructed to remove them by our insurers. What I felt was really unfair about that was that other companies insuring with the same firm were not told the same thing. So prospective customers, please bring your own - we even have a cupboard to store them in!

Edited May 6, 2015 by Rose Narrowboats

[Paul C]

My boat has steps to the roof - why would you not put them on a 2 berth hireboat, are you expecting someone to always stay on the boat in a lock while going up?

[mango]

My only significant concern with hire boat design is the use of single-lever shower controls. When fed from a calorifier, the water can be extremely hot and could scald a child or elderly person if the lever is accidentally knocked. I have raised my concern with a couple of operators without any response, even to say that there has never been an accident.

 

I have a lot of sympathy for hire operators, having seen what some people do to hire boats. There has got to be an easier way to earn a living.

[Rose Narrowboats]

My boat has steps to the roof - why would you not put them on a 2 berth hireboat, are you expecting someone to always stay on the boat in a lock while going up?

Yes.

 

The hire boat industry's assessment was that inexperienced crews controlling a boat in a lock with a rope presented too great a risk of injury.

 

ETA - most would take steps as in invitation to use the roof for other purposes. 20 or so years ago a child was on the roof of one of our boats when they bumped the bank whilst coming alongside. The child fell in between the boat and the bank and was crushed. The inquest found no fault on our part...but that is hardly the point. To be fair, steps had no bearing on that particular case as he'd been lifted up there by his parents for a better view.

 

I regularly use the roof to get on and off the boat in a lock (I don't like slimey ladders) but again just that process is best avoided unless you are keen on corporate manslaughter charges. Imagine we told some to just jump off the roff onto the lockside, they miss, go down the side of the boat, smash their ribs, puncture their lungs and die whilst trapped down there. The consequences would be felt accross the whole boating community - think lifejackets in tunnels after least years tragedy in Harecastle.

My only significant concern with hire boat design is the use of single-lever shower controls. When fed from a calorifier, the water can be extremely hot and could scald a child or elderly person if the lever is accidentally knocked. I have raised my concern with a couple of operators without any response, even to say that there has never been an accident.

 

I have a lot of sympathy for hire operators, having seen what some people do to hire boats. There has got to be an easier way to earn a living.

All ours have mixer valves on the calorifiers - this stops any accidents at any tap. I suspect most if not all operators do the same (hence no accidents) but unless they are plumbers the staff don't know about them.

 

There must be many easier ways to earn a living - unfortunately I enjoy this one! Building the unbreakable boat is a rewarding challenge. I'm close - a Steve Priest shell is a good starting point.

Edited May 6, 2015 by Rose Narrowboats

[mango]

My boat has steps to the roof - why would you not put them on a 2 berth hireboat, are you expecting someone to always stay on the boat in a lock while going up?

Many hire boats don't have easy access to the roof, and I am not surprised. A hire operator is responsible for users' safety, which does not apply in the case of private boats.

All ours have mixer valves on the calorifiers - this stops any accidents at any tap. I suspect most if not all operators do the same (hence no accidents) but unless they are plumbers the staff don't know about them.

That's great, but have a look at some of the larger operators.

[Paul C]

Yes.

 

The hire boat industry's assessment was that inexperienced crews controlling a boat in a lock with a rope presented too great a risk of injury.

 

 

Kinda understandable, I wasn't personally thinking of controlling with a rope though, I was thinking of narrow locks. If I were going up a broad lock, and the only boat in it, I'd always use a rope though. Maybe I'm doing it wrong?

[Rose Narrowboats]

 

Kinda understandable, I wasn't personally thinking of controlling with a rope though, I was thinking of narrow locks. If I were going up a broad lock, and the only boat in it, I'd always use a rope though. Maybe I'm doing it wrong?

Each to their own, but from a hiring perspective:

 

You still need to control the boat (ahead and astern) in a narrow lock. Personally, I always sit the boat against the gate, but I wouldn't recommend that to hirers due to the risk of getting caught up

 

In a wide lock we'd still recommend one stays on the boat and always use the paddle on the same side as the boat. The water will go under the boat, hit the wall on the other side, boil up and pin the boat against the wall it is against. Oh, and don't wind it all the way up in the first millisecond. As the lock fills and the pressure differential drops, open the other paddles as appropriate. I've yet to find a more efficient method regardless of experience and works everywhere I can think off. Even if it goes wrong, I'd still rather the boat bump a wall than someone's finger got taken off round a bollard.

[Paul C]

Each to their own, but from a hiring perspective:

 

You still need to control the boat (ahead and astern) in a narrow lock. Personally, I always sit the boat against the gate, but I wouldn't recommend that to hirers due to the risk of getting caught up

 

In a wide lock we'd still recommend one stays on the boat and always use the paddle on the same side as the boat. The water will go under the boat, hit the wall on the other side, boil up and pin the boat against the wall it is against. Oh, and don't wind it all the way up in the first millisecond. As the lock fills and the pressure differential drops, open the other paddles as appropriate. I've yet to find a more efficient method regardless of experience and works everywhere I can think off. Even if it goes wrong, I'd still rather the boat bump a wall than someone's finger got taken off round a bollard.

 

Interesting off-topic stuff here: I agree with the general principle of always having the boat under control in a lock. I also agree that when going down in a broad lock without a fender guard (one of those large plates placed half a narrowboat width from the edge, on each of the gates) there is a danger depending on the heights of the boat's front fender and the gate top/balance beam and the gap between. Going down a narrow lock, the bottom gates are usually double, or if they're single (most of the Birmingham canals, for example) have a guard, so the danger is not there.

 

Regarding position in the lock: going down, the best place is always the front of the lock (IMHO). Going up, if the boat is short enough not to be adversely affected by the flow of water entering, then the back of the lock is probably the most stable (but would need someone to control the boat, including not getting the rudder caught in the gates - but then that's the job of the rear fender really...) If the boat isn't short enough to do this, then the front (you'll be on the cill, not the gate(s), I'd have thought for most locks...) with the throttle in idle forwards is best. Ropes are meaningless/unhelpful, and trying to stay in the middle is akin to balancing on a knife edge.

 

HOWEVER the fender should be attached in such a way as to never pose a danger of hanging the boat up. For example, if could be mounted in such a way as it benignly flops up if caught; or a weak link put into chains which hold it more precisely and don't allow it to flop up.

 

For broad locks, if you assume that the paddle the same side as the boat will stick the boat to that wall, then sooner or later you'll be caught out and the boat will be all over the place. And even if the flow characteristics do do this, its still more stable to tie the boat up so the centre line is at an angle and stabilise the boat against the wall using idle forwards throttle. If its still not stable, use a bit more than idle.

 

But, I can see issues here if hirers don't know how to (safely) tie knots etc.

Edited May 6, 2015 by Paul C

[matty40s]

I have to say I`m somewhat surprised that most people on here have considered their hire boats had plenty of shelves and hooks. Both my wife and me find most hire boats to be poor in this regard particularly in the bedrooms and bathroom(s). Last year we hired Alpha Phantom on The Broads and this was part of my review for it at the time :

In fact there`s very little room in the bedrooms full stop.................... there`s no storage space at all in the rear bathroom (not even a shelf for your toothbrush ! ).

As I said Katie`s Drum (Silsden boats) was also very poor in this regard. In fact as we were unloading our boat I got talking to another group who`d had a similar boat and they too thought the provision of shelving was poor, particularly having none at all in the toilets. We agreed that was unforgiveable.

 

 

Do tell us which lovely routes you cruised soon, we look forward to hearing your tales of missing bollards and leaking gates.

[spadefoot]

Who on earth takes a toothbrush on holiday?

[Rose Narrowboats]

Who on earth takes a toothbrush on holiday?

When Cascade was brand new, she hadn't made it to Hillmorton (3hrs) before we had the first call out because "the power had gone off".

 

It wasn't so much the fact that they had plugged an iron into a 400w inverter that I found disturbing, more that someone wanted to iron within three hours of being on holiday - boating can't be that bad can it?!

Edited May 6, 2015 by Rose Narrowboats

[Jim Riley]

Op concerned about where to put falsies? An old bra of similar cup size nailed to the wall should cradle them nicely.

[spadefoot]

Op concerned about where to put falsies? An old bra of similar cup size nailed to the wall should cradle them nicely.

Ha ha, and leave it there when you give the boat back.

[Justin Smith]

Hire boat design..my favourite topic

 

Any boats that are designed to score well under the Tourist Board (or whatever it's called at the moment) scheme currently administered for them by the BMF should be okay as I know it is something their inspectors look for. You've got to balance that against the amount of time to taken to clean the boat and more seriously against the amount of time taken returning lost property to hirers - to this end where there is a choice we will tend to use open fronted cupboards so people have more chance of spotting little Jonny's/Jessica's Game Boy before they are on the M6...

 

We got into trouble with a bathroom shelf once - a very nice frosted glass one it was too, above and behind the taps. The boat came back with a stinging complaint that one of those on board had headbutted it and what were we thinking about putting where we had, etc etc. I was all set to string the boat fitting department up for this gross negligence until I remembered where it was (that was the first problem - it was exactly where I'd specified it) and secondly, it had been there for four years and no-one else had ever mentioned it, so I (with some reservations left it) and it's still there, with no problem another three years on.

 

We're not overly keen on hooks - too vulnerable in most locations, but each cabin has a wardrobe with coat hangers (matching of course, as specified in the Visit England scheme!) and there is a wet locker with more hanging space at the stern in all but one of our boats. To me, that wet locker is a must, but no one has ever complained about its abscence in Sunset to my knowledge. Her sister ship was 2' longer just to get it and I'm not sure I should have bothered now!

 

I think as a designer you have to be very careful about what you build. The OP's comment about whether the people who design these boats ever go boating on them is valid to a point - I suspect a lot of them don't or they'd make them easier to get on and off and handle better. However, when it comes to the internals, that's whole different ball game. What I want is irrelevant as it may not what the average customer wants - and most customers think they need a big inverter for example , possibly on the grounds that bigger must mean the boat as a whole is better - think electric windows and alloy wheels. You'd be amazed at some of the gadgets people have tried to bring on to our boats - that's a whole post in itself!

 

It fascinates me what some people regard as important on a holiday or in the design of boat and I can only hope we have ours about right because there are few recurring themes. Of those that do recur we can either do nothing about them (such as my favourite: "boat too narrow") or are related to safety (no seat for the helmsman, no steps onto the coach roof). It's also harder than you'd think to design a boat that looks good on a plan and in pictures that works as well as it looks for the majority when in use. We concentrate on the in use bit, possibly at the expense of some sales but I'd rather a customer return with their expectations exceeded than build something which looks great on the website but doesn't work in practice.

 

The people I do have sympathy for are the ones who complain we do not provide deckchairs. We used to, but after an accident involving a large quantity of wine, an improperly opened deckchair which collapsed, resulting in a cut hand and a compensation claim we were instructed to remove them by our insurers. What I felt was really unfair about that was that other companies insuring with the same firm were not told the same thing. So prospective customers, please bring your own - we even have a cupboard to store them in!

 

An interesting post.

I agree with your implication that the location of shelves is important vis risk of heads being banged, but a bit of thought should get round that, it`s a compromise between an ideal location to avoid head butting and the ideal location for convenience in use. But using the former as an excuse so as not to fit them at all (as some yards seem to do) at all is unacceptable. I still can`t see why there can`t be a shed load of relatively deep shelves at the foot end of beds, how would people bang their heads on those ? ! ?

As for hooks being vulnerable I had concluded that was the major factor in there being few if any. What you have to remember is that having no hooks won`t stop hirers hanging stuff up, they`ll just use alternative options, usually the curtain rails or even the hopper windows. both of these are things you`d want damaging even less I`d have thought !

[Guest]

We have actually hired from Silsden boats and I can't recall storage, shelving or lack of hooks being an issue....

[Justin Smith]

 

Do tell us which lovely routes you cruised soon, we look forward to hearing your tales of missing bollards and leaking gates.

 

Oh go on then.

Leeds Liverpool.

The Gargrave CRT water tap is OOU and it`s replacement is unusable for a long boat with its water filler at the front (as most do) heading West. The lock prevents the boat getting near enough for a standard length water hose to reach. Someone "in the know" told me this has been the case for about three years.......

Bridge 192 is so heavy that it`s on the verge of being unopenable, certainly for most women. All the dog walkers in the area knew that most boaters struggle with it so it must have been like that for some time.

The winding hole at Booth`s Bridge (just Nth of Keighley) desperately needs dredging, we grounded whilst turning. Of all the bits of a canal which should be kept well dredged it`s surely the winding holes....

Offtopic and negative but all very annoying, and all requiring rectification. I sent CRT an E Mail reporting the above but it remains to be seen if they`ll actually do anything.

 

The Leeds Liverpool is spectacular, surely one of the best, though all the swing bridges are a PITA, esp the ones which must have 50 (or more) boaters through them for every farm tractor !

Edited May 6, 2015 by Justin Smith

[Rose Narrowboats]

 

An interesting post.

I agree with your implication that the location of shelves is important vis risk of heads being banged, but a bit of thought should get round that, it`s a compromise between an ideal location to avoid head butting and the ideal location for convenience in use. But using the former as an excuse so as not to fit them at all (as some yards seem to do) at all is unacceptable. I still can`t see why there can`t be a shed load of relatively deep shelves at the foot end of beds, how would people bang their heads on those ? ! ?

As for hooks being vulnerable I had concluded that was the major factor in there being few if any. What you have to remember is that having no hooks won`t stop hirers hanging stuff up, they`ll just use alternative options, usually the curtain rails or even the hopper windows. both of these are things you`d want damaging even less I`d have thought !

We hope people will use the hangers provided in the wardrobes. The only places I can think we regularly use hooks are for tea towels and on the back of the bathroom door.

 

If I've envisaged your idea of shelves over the foot of the bed correctly, I'd be concerned that people could bash their head when they were making the bed. We have some shallow shelves in some of our boats but try to put deep shelves in alcoves (so basically it becomes an open fronted full height cupboard), but the most practical solution is drawers under the bed.

We have actually hired from Silsden boats and I can't recall storage, shelving or lack of hooks being an issue....

Different people, different priorities. I've seen our feedback forms before where the same feature (raised dinette) is mentioned in two successive hires - one week as a positive, the next as a negative.

[Guest]

Different people, different priorities. I've seen our feedback forms before where the same feature (raised dinette) is mentioned in two successive hires - one week as a positive, the next as a negative.

Precisely......

[Cruising Mike]

To be honest unless you hire for more than a week, i don't really see the point in 'unpacking' so to speak. I just tend to stuff the bags under the beds.

 

Only the food and the must-have drinks ever get unpacked.

[Pete of Ebor]

It's good to hear from someone involved with actually having to design a boat inteior, and the problems (..from all directions, not just from hirers..) that they have to solve, or at least mitigate. We've been hiring for nearly 25 years now, and the boats have changed significantly. No doubt, this is in response to customers wanting more of a 'floating cottage' nowadays. One great problem we have been finding over the last 10 years is the lack of big boats - by big I mean 10-12 berth, specifically without fixed doubles. We've had boats that claim to be 8 or 10 berth, but with 2 fixed doubles, which is not much use to a group of 8 individuals ! Some boats offer pipe-cots, again which are unsuitable for adults, though I'd be the first to admit that we're probably atypical hirers. We're off hire-boating again next week (from Middlewich) so look out for an update to this thread.

[MtB]

In fact as we were unloading our boat I got talking to another group who`d had a similar boat and they too thought the provision of shelving was poor, particularly having none at all in the toilets. We agreed that was unforgiveable.

I can understand wanting shelf next to the toilet, but in it? Surely not...

(Work is quiet today!!)

[Justin Smith]

We have actually hired from Silsden boats and I can't recall storage, shelving or lack of hooks being an issue....

 

So did you have shelves in your bedroom and bathroom ? Or is it just the boat we hired (and the group I got chatting to) which lack these ?

[Justin Smith]

We hope people will use the hangers provided in the wardrobes. The only places I can think we regularly use hooks are for tea towels and on the back of the bathroom door.

 

If I've envisaged your idea of shelves over the foot of the bed correctly, I'd be concerned that people could bash their head when they were making the bed. We have some shallow shelves in some of our boats but try to put deep shelves in alcoves (so basically it becomes an open fronted full height cupboard), but the most practical solution is drawers under the bed.

Different people, different priorities. I've seen our feedback forms before where the same feature (raised dinette) is mentioned in two successive hires - one week as a positive, the next as a negative.

 

If you mean just drawers under the bed I strongly disagree with you. Apart from being a bit awkward to get into they`re not practical for everything. For instance where would you put your alarm clock ? Or the aforementioned false teeth or the book you`re reading before retiring to bed ? Or if you want to keep separate some of the clothes you`ve worn the previous day and want to wear again the following day (i.e. not dirty but not clean unworn) where do you put them ? The implication of what you`re saying (and Silsden boats`) is that you keep everything from your toothbrush and toiletry bag to your clean unworn and dirty clothes all in the same awkward to access drawers. I found it such a PITA (the bathroom having no shelves at all) that I actually washed in the bleedin` kitchen ! RIDICULOUS.....

Edited May 9, 2015 by Justin Smith

[Guest]

So did you have shelves in your bedroom and bathroom ? Or is it just the boat we hired (and the group I got chatting to) which lack these ?

To be honest I can't recall the specific location of solving, but then as I said neither can I recall it being a particular issue. There was nine of us on a 59ft boat so I guess I would have.