Where do I fit

[1agos]

I cruise from March to December, we did around 900 miles this year, I don't cruise in winter preferring to plug into the grid at a marina. So should I be classed as a Continuous Cruiser or do I have a Home Mooring even though I am only home 3 months a year( I only pay for the months I am in the marina).

 

Summary of Guidance for Boats without a home mooring

 Boats without a home mooring must be engaged in genuine navigation throughout the period of the licence.

 

 

From the Guidance notes:

1 ‘Home Mooring’ is “a place where the vessel can reasonably be kept and may lawfully be left”.

 

 

 

As per the Summary I don't navigate throughout the period.

 

As per the guidance I have a place to lawfully leave the boat although only in winter but can't reasonably keep it there during my cruising period.

 

It would appear we don't fulfil either of the requirements.

 

I have a CC license at the moment.

 

What are your thoughts.

 

 

[Paul C]

Pretty easy - you are a boater with a home mooring between Dec-Mar and you are a boater without a home mooring between Mar-Dec. You can use the slang term of continuous cruiser if you like, but its kinda ill-defined and somewhat misleading.

[frahkn]

I am not a lawyer but I do not think that you need to complete the CC declaration.

 

There is no specific CC license.

 

Frank.

[Paul C]

ETA: The T&Cs of the licence ask you to inform CRT if you change home moorings; or change from having a home mooring to not having one.

[Machpoint005]

It seems to me that the practical point is whether you have a home mooring at the time you renew your licence. If so, you don't need to make a continuous cruising declaration.

 

I do wonder, though, if you can be said to have a home mooring at times when you are neither there nor paying for it. What does the owner of the mooring site/rights have to say about it? Do you always go back to the same place? If you do, and the mooring is always available for you, you are effectively paying 3 months' fees for 12 month's mooring, so good luck to you.

[Paul C]

All sounds a bit "Ralph Freeman" - http://narrowboatworld.com/index.php/leatest/5499-campaign-continues-

It seems to me that the practical point is whether you have a home mooring at the time you renew your licence. If so, you don't need to make a continuous cruising declaration.

 

I do wonder, though, if you can be said to have a home mooring at times when you are neither there nor paying for it. What does the owner of the mooring site/rights have to say about it? Do you always go back to the same place? If you do, and the mooring is always available for you, you are effectively paying 3 months' fees for 12 month's mooring, so good luck to you.

[Phil.]

I am in the same position as you and I am going to maintain that I have a home mooring. As even when away cruising if I return to my Marina I can keep the boat there on an ad hoc basis and just pay on a daily or weekly basis. I don't suppose this will be an issue as when out cruising that is exactly what we will be doing so I doubt we will even pop up on the radar.

 

 

Edited to add we do pay a deposit to reserve our spot for the winter months

Edited March 5, 2015 by Phil.

[Arthur Marshall]

Aren't you just in the same position as a CCer who takes a winter mooring? According to the new T&Cs, once anyone is out cruising, they all have to follow the same rules. Presumably you don't need a CRT mooring permit to moor in the marina over winter, and that's really the only difference. I would think if you just took an EOG mooring over winter, you would then need a mooring permit.

[bottle]

There are one million answers to the question.

 

The one and only true answer is that given by C&RT when you ask them.

[by'eck]

I cruise from March to December, we did around 900 miles this year, I don't cruise in winter preferring to plug into the grid at a marina. So should I be classed as a Continuous Cruiser or do I have a Home Mooring even though I am only home 3 months a year( I only pay for the months I am in the marina).

 

Summary of Guidance for Boats without a home mooring

 Boats without a home mooring must be engaged in genuine navigation throughout the period of the licence.

 

 

From the Guidance notes:

1 ‘Home Mooring’ is “a place where the vessel can reasonably be kept and may lawfully be left”.

 

 

 

As per the Summary I don't navigate throughout the period.

 

As per the guidance I have a place to lawfully leave the boat although only in winter but can't reasonably keep it there during my cruising period.

 

It would appear we don't fulfil either of the requirements.

 

I have a CC license at the moment.

 

What are your thoughts.

 

 

 

That's pretty much my cruising regime except I generally spend the winter in a different marina each year. I therefore had no option but to register as a continuous cruiser - not that its been in the slightest bit restrictive for me.

[Alan de Enfield]

There are one million answers to the question.

 

The one and only true answer is that given by C&RT (IN WRITING) when you ask them.

[bottle]

Thanks Alan, yes should have put that.

[1agos]

Allan & Bottle... will do.

 

I always get a CC license as that's where I thought we fitted until today when I received the C&RT email sent out to all CC's licence holders.

 

As Phil said our cruising patten will keep us of radar but it would be nice to get confirmation from C&RT so will contact them by letter today.

 

Thanks to all

[Machpoint005]

Of course, if you are not paying for the mooring it cannot really be said to be yours. But how long can you leave it before telling CRT? I'm pretty sure we all agree that it must be something between a week (to allow the declaration to arrive at CRT) and a year (by which time the licence will have expired anyway, but it would be taking the piss before then).

 

Which goes back to my point that as far as I can tell, you only need to tell CRT when you change home mooring. It is no business of theirs what your financial arrangements with the site owner might be when you are intending to go back to the same place.

 

And no, I never read Narrowminded World. I can get more professionally worded bigotry from the Daily Moan if I should happen to need a fix.

[Ricco1]

It seems that CRT are going to be pretty busy over the coming weeks, answering the various letters that will be coming their way following their recent 'reminder' campaign. That would be great, it could create jobs from nothing. Unfortunately though CRT appear to have limited funds so every pound spent replying in vague terms to the specific questions contained within the letters will no doubt lead to less dredging, less maintenance of facilities etc.

[BrumSaint]

I will say up front I moor in a marina, so this issue doesn't really (at the moment) affect me.

 

However I can not see why people who are 'Continuous Cruisers' and do genuinely cruise are so concerned by this. The letter from C&RT says

 

If we've any concerns about a boater's past cruising pattern, we will get in touch about six weeks before the licence renewal date, to let them know which of the following two categories applies and what they need to do:

 

At this stage you ask for their evidence of your cruising pattern and if you disagree with C&RT's details you have the time and opportunity to discuss it with them and sort it out. If you accept their evidence then I guess (referring back to another thread) it is at this stage, if you were unable to resolve the issue, that you would inform C&RT that if they refused your licence you would challenge it in a court of law.

 

C&RT are not going to wait for you to apply to renew your licence and then just inform you it is not being renewed. There will be time to discuss it with them and if need be seek other help and advice.

 

I assume that if you disagree with the local enforcement office's or the licensing team's assessment of your cruising pattern that you make representations to the next level of management.

 

I'm not sure if there is any sort of formal appeal process beyond that, but maybe that is something the various 'boating' organisations could take up with C&RT and ask to be put in place, perhaps with some form of independent adjudicator (I don't think the current ombudsman would be the correct office for this).

 

This would be a win win for C&RT, if there has been a flaw in their assessment of the cruising pattern it is corrected before the matter is put in the hands of the lawyers (thus saving money). If it does go to court then C&RT have extra ammunition to argue their case with.

 

 

 

 

 

[Mike Todd]

I cruise from March to December, we did around 900 miles this year, I don't cruise in winter preferring to plug into the grid at a marina. So should I be classed as a Continuous Cruiser or do I have a Home Mooring even though I am only home 3 months a year( I only pay for the months I am in the marina).

 

Summary of Guidance for Boats without a home mooring

 Boats without a home mooring must be engaged in genuine navigation throughout the period of the licence.

 

 

From the Guidance notes:

1 ‘Home Mooring’ is “a place where the vessel can reasonably be kept and may lawfully be left”.

 

 

 

As per the Summary I don't navigate throughout the period.

 

As per the guidance I have a place to lawfully leave the boat although only in winter but can't reasonably keep it there during my cruising period.

 

It would appear we don't fulfil either of the requirements.

 

I have a CC license at the moment.

 

What are your thoughts.

 

 

The following response may (or may not) help, but I did ask the question:

 

Hi, Mike

 

Many thanks for your email and for passing on your comments regarding changes to T&Cs.

 

We assume, for licensing purposes, that you will renew your mooring when it expires as you have agreed to have a home mooring for the duration of the licence, or notify us in line with the terms and conditions that you have a new home mooring. We would not expect you to change your licence start date. A change of your Home Mooring during the period of your licence does not mean that you have to apply for a new licence, as long as you obtain a new Home Mooring and promptly notify us as required by Condition 3.4 of the draft amended terms and conditions. You can change your Home Mooring on several occasions as long as you have a genuine Home Mooring at some location for the duration of the licence. If at any time you do not have a Home Mooring, we will treat you as a continuous cruiser in accordance with Condition 2.2.

 

Does the above explain in a little more details and clarify your below query?

 

Thanks,

Sian

 

Sian Ferry

Project Manager

Canal & River Trust

 

0203 2044425

07766 775546

The Toll House, Little Venice, Delamere Terrace, London W2 6ND

 

 

-----Original Message-----

From: Mike Todd

Sent: 31 January 2015 15:02

To: licensing

Subject: Licence T

 

It would appear from your new T&C's that it is only possible to change the home mooring for a boat at the same time as renewing a licence, without having to surrender one licence and apply for a new one. This surely cannot be your intention. BWML, in common with most marinas, offers mooring permits for less than one year. Does this mean that they cannot be used legitimately other than with boat licences of an identical period? There are plenty of boaters who move from one marina/mooring to another during a year.

 

Also, what happens when a boater moves from having a Home Mooring to CC'ing during the period of a licence?

 

Both of these were permissible previously but the attempt to tidy up and tighten definitions does not seem to have has sufficient scrutiny to cover all reasonable circumstances, only the more obvious ones in the minds of the revisers.

 

But I may be mis-reading your changes.

 

[Arthur Marshall]

Does that mean you have to notify CRT when you take your mooring in the winter, and then notify them when you give it up & return to CCing, even though it doesn't actually make any difference to them as presumably you won't need a CRT mooring permit in the marina? I suppose it would stop them chasing you because they haven't spotted you in 17 different places over the winter, but it seems a bit daft.

[bottle]

I know I said that C&RT would know the definitive answer but I will now put my opinion.

 

 

When you renew your licence declare whatever you are doing at that moment in time

 

ie. if on a paid mooring give them the mooring address, if CCing declare CCing.

 

If you change from one to the other just tell them.

[blackrose]

 

What are your thoughts.

 

My thoughts?

 

Sorry but I honestly wonder why you even worry about this nonsense.

 

It's only the people who obey the rules who think about this stuff, and you can be sure that those who flout the rules aren't bothered in the slightest.

[1agos]

Received an email back from CRT, of interest if you have a similar cruising/mooring pattern to mine.

 

 

Many thanks for your e-mail and apologies for the delay in our reply.

 

From March to December you are a continuous cruiser but when you are on your winter mooring you are a boat with a home mooring for the duration of the mooring contract.

 

The easiest and simple way for us to manage this is for you to tell us by e-mail or letter when you are taking up you winter mooring and where it is. We will then update our computer records. When you are ready to go cruising again tell us by e-mail or letter and we’ll change your status back to continuous cruising.

 

By notifying us of your change of mooring status at the appropriate time you are ensuring that you fulfil our requirements.

 

I hope that answers your question.

 

Have a lovely 2015 cruise.

 

Kind regards,

[valrene9600]

Simple.

[thunderbird]

I cruise from March to December, we did around 900 miles this year, I don't cruise in winter preferring to plug into the grid at a marina. So should I be classed as a Continuous Cruiser or do I have a Home Mooring even though I am only home 3 months a year( I only pay for the months I am in the marina).

 

Summary of Guidance for Boats without a home mooring

 Boats without a home mooring must be engaged in genuine navigation throughout the period of the licence.

 

 

From the Guidance notes:

1 ‘Home Mooring’ is “a place where the vessel can reasonably be kept and may lawfully be left”.

 

 

 

As per the Summary I don't navigate throughout the period.

 

As per the guidance I have a place to lawfully leave the boat although only in winter but can't reasonably keep it there during my cruising period.

 

It would appear we don't fulfil either of the requirements.

 

I have a CC license at the moment.

 

What are your thoughts.

 

 

I don't think you are the only boater with this query!!

[Keeping Up]

I don't think you are the only boater with this query!!

 

I'd agree with that! One thing that is certain is that there will always be people both with and without moorings, especially here on the Forum, who look down their noses because you don't fit into "their" category. We have a home mooring but spend 6 months a year cruising; I have been told by at least two cc'ers here that I'm not qualified to post anything on the Forum relating to life afloat or cc'ing because I have a mooring, and I have been told here by marina-based boaters that I am almost a cc'er and therefore I am "just" a member of the great unwashed so I'm not qualified to comment on anything! But sod'em I know what I am and what I am entitled to do/be/say, if it doesn't fit their nice pigeonholes that's their problem not mine!

[bassplayer]

 

I'd agree with that! One thing that is certain is that there will always be people both with and without moorings, especially here on the Forum, who look down their noses because you don't fit into "their" category. We have a home mooring but spend 6 months a year cruising; I have been told by at least two cc'ers here that I'm not qualified to post anything on the Forum relating to life afloat or cc'ing because I have a mooring, and I have been told here by marina-based boaters that I am almost a cc'er and therefore I am "just" a member of the great unwashed so I'm not qualified to comment on anything! But sod'em I know what I am and what I am entitled to do/be/say, if it doesn't fit their nice pigeonholes that's their problem not mine!

That's labels for you! The important thing is to enjoy what you do, and, as a wise old man once said to me, "Don't let the bastds get you down!".

 

Thanks for the power wash offer today BTW.