Man jumped into canal after 'fire ball' on canal boat

[Rob@BSSOffice]

THE owner of a canal boat was forced to leap into the cold water after the vessel went up in flames.

And the dramatic incident on the Trent and Mersey Canal, off Newport Lane in Middleport, also resulted in the death of the man’s pet dog.

 

Crews from Hanley and Sandyford were called out to the fire at 8.30am this morning.

 

Incident commander Martin Hall, based at Sandyford, said the boat was well alight on arrival.

He said: “It appears the fire was caused when the owner had been refilling an onboard generator. The fumes and petrol had created a fireball.

 

“The owner was forced to jump into the water while the other occupant was able to get off onto the footpath.

Read more: http://www.stokesentinel.co.uk/Man-jumped-canal-ball-canal-boat-Middlport-update/story-26026779-detail/story.html#ixzz3RldvzXH5

Generators are a popular topic on CWDF and the BSS often alerts owners to the risk from carbon monoxide poisoning from the exhaust fumes.

But every so often people using generators on boats are involved in very serious fires. We have news of another sad event linked to the potential refilling of a generator. I know it will be heartbreaking for the owner to lose a pet dog, never mind their boat and belongings. At least we can be thankful that both occupants escaped.

To help support our our advice to refuel (and run) portable generators ashore, the BSS has reminder stickers 'Refuel Ashore'. They are are available to stick on portable petrol tanks, spare fuel cans and portable generators.

They are free, just email the BSS office directly (please don't use the PM service for this) using the email address below.

And we can also provide copies of the Fire Kills / BSS booklet Fire Safety on Boats which is also available on our website www.boatsafetyscheme.org/stay-safe

[DeanS]

Very sad.

 

What might cause a generator to ignite when refilling?

I ask, as some are too large to move onto the towpath to refill.

[GoodGurl]

i suspect he was filling it whilst it was running or still hot?

Edited February 15, 2015 by GoodGurl

[frangar]

There are quite a few things...

 

Spilling fuel over a hot exhaust...petrol vapour finding a source of ignition..like a cooker or stove....etc

 

I've heard & seen the fireball from a grp cruiser that went up after the owner refuelled the engine and the pilot light on the gas fridge found the vapour. We was moored about a mile away....it was a Big Bang...wasn't much left when we went past the next day...bits of boat over quite a big area. Gas fridges are now a no no on petrol boats but anything petrol powered has similar possibilities.

 

Cheers

 

Gareth

[blackrose]

Any other ignition source in the engine room too. Do alternators spark? Never actually seen a spark but I imagine there are small sparks inside.

 

Going off topic slightly, I don't know anything about boats with inboard petrol engines, but they seem inherently dangerous to me. Any leaks from joints in fuel hoses or carbs, etc, could potentially lead to the boat filing with fumes. Isn't it a bit like storing a petrol generator in an engine room?

 

I guess petrol inboards must have other safety features?

Edited February 15, 2015 by blackrose

[bigcol]

So So sad.

 

Last year I bored the forum re power generation

I bought a suitcase Genny

Insurance company's have a get out clause re storage of petrol.

Plus the operation, storage and filling.

 

To be fair I found it impossible for me to lift

To find a place secure to run as well.

 

With Petrol generators for some they are a must

Only had mine for 2 months.

The fumes are the most dangerous

The smell of petrol stayed around for ages, even if very careful

 

I think we all get complacent, but with petrol, you just carnt!

 

In the end got a secondhand diesel

 

Col

[bigcol]

Re blackroses post

 

Many years ago we had a petrol sports cruiser.

Use to fill up with 5 gallon petrol cans as marina petrol was so much expensive. 3 or 4 of these in the car!! With kids!! How stupid and nieve was I.

Our engine bay had fans to run before any start up, also advise to run father switching the engine off.

Then we change so the fans continuesley ran.

 

I've seen a couple of boats go up after just filling up with petrol, fill up, put away, everyone seated,

A fag well away from the fill up point on boat. Boom!!!!

 

A spark, with petrol we didn't use to respect it at all when we were younger,

but now I'm a old git, I'm bit more sensible I hope.

[Nightwatch]

Big col.

I don't know about others but the last two posts I find myself trying to read them as verses of prose.

 

They don't rhyme though.

 

Martyn

[MtB]

Filling the petrol tank on a genny results (at best) in the same volume of petrol vapour flowing OUT as petrol added. The vapour is heavier than air and behaves in the same way as LPG, so flows straight into the bottom of the boat if done on board.

 

If done on a regular basis over an extended period of time quite a lot of petrol vapour can accumulate in the bilges (depending on how well ventilated - usually not well at all) and if ignited in this restricted space by an electrical spark or a gas fridge flame low in the boat, a very big bang will result.

 

The risk from a single filling of a petrol genny is quite low I suspect but for regular users, the risk rises by several orders of magnitude. And yes a spark can easily occur on the slip rings in an alternator. Other sources of low-down sparks are operation of the battery master switch and the engine starter motor.

 

Something I don't know is the upper and lower explosive limits of concentration of LPG and of petrol vapour in air. With methane (natural gas) the explosive concentration range in air is 5% to 15%. Outside this the gas will not explode (so they tell us!). I'll have a google for the values for LPG and for petrol vaour. They could be a lot wider. The wider the range, the higher the risk.

 

 

MtB

[MtB]

Edit to add:

 

Ok here we are. Some lower and upper explosive limits:

 

Methane (natural gas) 5.0% to 15.0%

Propane 2.1% to 9.6%

Butane 1.8% to 8.4%

Gasoline (petrol) 1.2% to 7.1%

 

So petrol is especially dangerous having a lower explosive limit of only 1.2% in air. Almost twice as dangerous as propane, in terms of low concentrations being explosive.

(Source https://www.google.co.uk/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=1&ved=0CCMQFjAA&url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.mathesongas.com%2Fpdfs%2Fproducts%2FLower-%2528LEL%2529-%26-Upper-%2528UEL%2529-Explosive-Limits-.pdf&ei=BmPgVP33DrCR7Abut4CwDw&usg=AFQjCNG1smUDvDlRuEDeBkBqADWzSECaEQ&sig2=h2aiJc8H1hFyNnQyQ5QULw&bvm=bv.85970519,d.ZGU&cad=rja)

[Martin Megson]

Filling the petrol tank on a genny results (at best) in the same volume of petrol vapour flowing OUT as petrol added. The vapour is heavier than air and behaves in the same way as LPG, so flows straight into the bottom of the boat if done on board.

 

If done on a regular basis over an extended period of time quite a lot of petrol vapour can accumulate in the bilges (depending on how well ventilated - usually not well at all) and if ignited in this restricted space by an electrical spark or a gas fridge flame low in the boat, a very big bang will result.

 

The risk from a single filling of a petrol genny is quite low I suspect but for regular users, the risk rises by several orders of magnitude. And yes a spark can easily occur on the slip rings in an alternator. Other sources of low-down sparks are operation of the battery master switch and the engine starter motor.

 

Something I don't know is the upper and lower explosive limits of concentration of LPG and of petrol vapour in air. With methane (natural gas) the explosive concentration range in air is 5% to 15%. Outside this the gas will not explode (so they tell us!). I'll have a google for the values for LPG and for petrol vaour. They could be a lot wider. The wider the range, the higher the risk.

 

 

MtB

 

Thanks for that very useful info Mike. I tend to run my suitcase genny on the rear deck as its safely outside the cabin. I often fill it there too assuming any vapour will drift away in the breeze. However, on a still day I now realise that it could well seep through the deck board gaps into the engine bay and sump. I shall certainly be putting it on the bank to fill in future.

 

Edit for typo

Edited February 15, 2015 by Meggers

[junior]

RIP little dog.

Edited February 15, 2015 by junior

[Emerald Fox]

"What might cause a generator to ignite when refilling?" - lit fag in mouth?

 

"the BSS has reminder stickers 'Refuel Ashore'." - sensible.

[nora]

Thank you Junior, yes rest in peace little dog, god bless. nora

[blackrose]

Big col.

I don't know about others but the last two posts I find myself trying to read them as verses of prose.

 

They don't rhyme though.

 

Martyn

 

Yes, I find the writing style rather odd too.

Filling the petrol tank on a genny results (at best) in the same volume of petrol vapour flowing OUT as petrol added. The vapour is heavier than air and behaves in the same way as LPG, so may flow straight into the bottom of the boat if done on board, depending on the position of the generator and configuration of the boat.

 

If done on a regular basis over an extended period of time quite a lot of petrol vapour can accumulate in the bilges (but, as volatile organic compounds, petrol vapours will tend to evaporate rather than accumulate).

Edited February 15, 2015 by blackrose

[wreckferret]

The explosive percentage mix is interesting Mike, thanks for that. I was aware of the methane values from my coal mining days but not the others.

Bare in mind that even if outside these concentrations the mix will still burn which whilst not as catastrophic could still have serious consequences.....

[MtB]

Yes I agree with Blackrose's edits, except the last bit. Petrol vapour is already vapour so suggesting it might evaporate is pretty meaningless.

 

I suspect he means disperse. The risk of accumulation of petrol vapour inside a boat strikes me as virtually non-existent if only done occasionally. But even so, if a litre or three of vapour enters the hull of the boat and mixes to the right concentration of 1.2% in air, that's 200 or 300 litres volume of combustible mixture which will increase in volume by perhaps a hundredfold in a tenth of a second if ignited.

 

MtB

The explosive percentage mix is interesting Mike, thanks for that. I was aware of the methane values from my coal mining days but not the others.
Bare in mind that even if outside these concentrations the mix will still burn which whilst not as catastrophic could still have serious consequences.....

 

 

 

Yes I was contemplating this too. The concentration in air will never be uniform and there will be bits that are explosive and bits that aren't.

 

MtB

Edited February 15, 2015 by Mike the Boilerman

[wreckferret]

Things did on occasion get interesting when we would get concentrations of methane way above 15%. Dilution meant bringing levels back down through the explosive range !!

[bigcol]

Big col.

I don't know about others but the last two posts I find myself trying to read them as verses of prose.

They don't rhyme though.

Martyn

Hi Martyn. And Blackrose. Lol I agree, I don't even understand what I had written,

And re the positioning of the lines and sentences, No!!!

 

I was a poet and didn't even know it!!

 

Col

Edited February 15, 2015 by bigcol

[bigcol]

RIP little dog.

Terrible for the owner

Yes. Rest in peace little dog

 

Col

[bassplayer]

I learnt my lesson with petrol when I tried pouring some on an unlit BBQ just as one 'bright spark' decided to throw a lit match in at the same time! Lets just say I has no hairs left on my arm....

[blackrose]

Yes I agree with Blackrose's edits, except the last bit. Petrol vapour is already vapour so suggesting it might evaporate is pretty meaningless.

 

Yes, I meant that the vapour is more likely disperse into the atmosphere.

 

I may be wrong but I think the greatest risk is when actually refuelling, rather than bilges full of accumulated petrol fumes which could ignite at a later time. I think it's different with LPG which is more likely to accumulate.

[furnessvale]

Very sad.

 

What might cause a generator to ignite when refilling?

I ask, as some are too large to move onto the towpath to refill.

I would hope that any gennie in this category was mounted permanently in a safe manner.

 

George ex nb Alton retired

Edited February 15, 2015 by furnessvale

[MtB]

I would hope that any genie in this category was mounted permanently in a safe manner.

 

George ex nb Alton retired

 

About the only safe and commonly used way is in one of those pig ugly metal frames made of angle iron and overhanging the stern of the boat.

[smileypete]

Biggest risk can be when petrol containers and tanks may contain a mix of unsaturated petrol vapour and air, and so a flame from lit vapour can travel in and make them explode!

 

If the tank or petrol can explodes or ignites inside, it may spread petrol and vapour over a wide area causing a large fireball, particularly bad in a confined space!

 

Air can get in when the container is emptied, but also in cold temperatures when the petrol doesn't vapourise so well. So an open petrol can or tank should always be treated as an explosion hazard, and closed ASAP after filling, don't get distracted away - eg by the dog.

 

cheers, Pete.

~smpt~

Edited February 15, 2015 by smileypete