What should I have done to get better service from my new batteries?

[forsberg]

It always pays to be specific but then again threads would die out fast.

Yes Lead-calcium will degrade over 25 degrees celsius, my point was that they the die fast over 50°C.

Very fast indeed, while other constructions have a fairly linear lifetime/ambient-temperature curve of 50 % per 10°C above 25°C,

(for the duration of that temperature so not as bad as it sounds, running them at 35°C for 2 hours will decrese lifetime with one hour but with no permanent loss beyond that.)

the lead-calcium is more logaritmic and takes massive irrevocable damage over 50°C.

So if you want to use them you might want to consider where you put them.

Nothing above as absolutes ofc, besides that batteries enjoy room temperature just as much as we do.

[EEng]

Instead of a straight parallel connection you could use FET's or diodes to isolate batteries and aid in balancing the charging.

[Phoenix_V]

I recently (October) renewed my battery bank after 7 years good service from a set of Vinces second hand ones.

 

 

I am looking at replacing a set of Vince's finest, they have served me well but dont appear to be made anymore

Matty40s What did you buy to replace them?

[rogeriko]

 

24v alternator.

 

MtB

 

Ha Ha Ha But you would need twice as many forklift cells as everyone else, you'd pay double.

Edited January 22, 2015 by rogeriko

[cuthound]

Instead of a straight parallel connection you could use FET's or diodes to isolate batteries and aid in balancing the charging.

I came across this on a telecoms installation in Sweden in the 1980's once. It ensures optimal charging, because the transistor shunts excess current past the cells that charged first. The main issue was damaging the transistors when the batteries were topped up.

[peterboat]

 

540 AmpHours at 5 hour rate is about equal to 700 AmpHours at 20 hour rate and about 900 AmpHours at 100 hour rate which is what most leisure batteries at rated at. Therefore they are actually cheaper than buying 8 110 leisure batteries.

 

2400 cycles means If you run them down and charge them up again every 4 days they will last for 26 years!!! 800/900 amphours is a lot of power

And that is why I have 2 volt cells one bank is 9 years old already and still going well

 

Peter

[smileypete]

I came across this on a telecoms installation in Sweden in the 1980's once. It ensures optimal charging, because the transistor shunts excess current past the cells that charged first. The main issue was damaging the transistors when the batteries were topped up.

 

There's a later patent on using switched capacitors for eq, quite simple to implement but ingenious too...

 

http://www.google.co.uk/patents/US5710504

 

cheers, Pete.

~smpt~

[cuthound]

There's a later patent on using switched capacitors for eq, quite simple to implement but ingenious too...

 

http://www.google.co.uk/patents/US5710504

 

cheers, Pete.

~smpt~

Thanks Pete, it is interesting. However most commercial enterprises now use VRSLA's even though they rarely last longer than 5-6 years, simply because the labour costs too maintain them are minimal, and outweigh the advantages of longer battery life from well maintained wet cells.

[Rambling]

I am considering as a long term residential mooring option (with no facilities) converting a camping trailer and having an LPG generator next yo the boat. Is LPG in the same space as the genny safe? Or do they have to be in separate sections. Obviously the generator will get hot.

 

Is there a safety issue or anything I should be aware of? I know I will have to have it cut out for ventilation. I have seen it on RVs in the US.

[sueb]

You should only run them between 8am-8pm. I've no idea about the safety aspects

[Phil Ambrose]

I would have thought that the bottle would have to be quite close to the genny ro run it, the bottle would I assume be outside the enclosure. I did look into converting a genny 5 years ago and found a company on line, the cost was not horrendus.

Phil

[Rambling]

There are loads available now, ready converted by the manufacturer, and covered by a warranty. . It's 60% more efficient apparently

[Martin Megson]

Would it be possible to fit the gas bottle to the outside of the trailer. Perhaps on a bracket attached to the tow bar similar to what they have on caravans.

[bottle]

Use the same set up as a caravan, gas bottle on the tow bar, (A-frame) fixing brackets etc. are available, generator in the trailer.

[Arthur Brown]

I don't think there is one answer to all the safety issues. HOWEVER keeping the space between the heat source and the fuel maximised and well ventilated is a good start.

[Theo]

Two thoughts. How are your batteries linked? if live and earth for the bank come off one battery that one is being hammered. Do you have an alternator controller to keep charging up at 14v

Each battery is linked to the busbars by equal lengths of cable as per the Gibbo ideal so hammering one battery should not be a problem.

 

N

Edited February 8, 2015 by Theo
fat foingers

[Theo]

If the numbers the OP gave us in his first post are correct and not a typo, ( charging rate is 1 to to 2 amps per battery) then that is his problem, it's far to low.

 

 

DaveGood

 

I agree that it is far too low, but it is all they will accept at 14.6V. That's one of the reasons that I think that they might be shot.

 

N

 

 

Not true.

 

I have a pair of 12v leisure batteries and I can GUARANTEE the charging current is the same in both. Always.

 

 

MtB

I suppose that is a good reason for having six 2V 660Ah (are they avaiable?) batteries wired in series rather that six 12V 110Ah batteries wired in parallel.

 

N

[Theo]

PS

 

Sorry that I have been out of communication for a while and thanks for all the excellent thoughts on this.

 

It looks as if I might be able to source a set of ex telecomms standby batteries in a month or three. The las set of these served us well as not liveaboards for 8 years. It was only when the source seemed to have dried up that I went for the present set. In the meantime I am in touch with the suppliers.

 

N

[Theo]

I don't think there is one answer to all the safety issues. HOWEVER keeping the space between the heat source and the fuel maximised and well ventilated is a good start.

I have thought about this on and off since I saw a conversion service at Crick.

 

It occurred to me that I would not like to have another gas bottle dedicated to the generator. I had seen one boat where the onwer lifted the gas bottle and generator off his boat each time he wanted to use it.

 

My best solution would be to tee off the correct side (not sure if it would be the hp or lp side of the regulator) a long enough hose to reach the generator on the bank. I don't know if this could be arranged safely, though.

 

N

[smileypete]

PS

 

Sorry that I have been out of communication for a while and thanks for all the excellent thoughts on this.

 

It looks as if I might be able to source a set of ex telecomms standby batteries in a month or three. The las set of these served us well as not liveaboards for 8 years. It was only when the source seemed to have dried up that I went for the present set. In the meantime I am in touch with the suppliers.

 

N

 

What are your thoughts on post #20?...

 

Not always easy to do EQ 'off grid'...

 

One way could be to isolate a couple of batts at a time and use one of those £10 '600W DC converters' off EBay.

 

Or use a smallish unregulated solar panel. Some more details and ideas should be in the previous topics...

 

cheers, Pete.

~smpt~

 

Maybe just try one batt as a trial, usually works and you could save a few hundred.

 

There are batt post isolators available for a few pounds each.

 

cheers, Pete.

~smpt~

Edited February 8, 2015 by smileypete

[nicknorman]

I have thought about this on and off since I saw a conversion service at Crick.

 

It occurred to me that I would not like to have another gas bottle dedicated to the generator. I had seen one boat where the onwer lifted the gas bottle and generator off his boat each time he wanted to use it.

 

My best solution would be to tee off the correct side (not sure if it would be the hp or lp side of the regulator) a long enough hose to reach the generator on the bank. I don't know if this could be arranged safely, though.

 

N

A friend has a T off his gas system in the bow locker (not sure whether hp or lp, but presumably lp would be fine given an adequate sized regulator) to a bayonet connection on the side of one of his bow lockers (self-draining bow). He can then put his genny on the bank and plug in the hose.

[Theo]

What are your thoughts on post #20?...

Will the gizmo from Ebay do a proper job of equalisation with the short duration voltage spikes etc?

 

Maybe just try one batt as a trial, usually works and you could save a few hundred.

 

There are batt post isolators available for a few pounds each.

 

cheers, Pete.

~smpt~

I may well have a try if the contact with Batteries Direct doesn't come to anything.

 

N

Edited February 8, 2015 by Theo

[smileypete]

Will the gizmo from Ebay do a proper job of equalisation with the short duration voltage spikes etc?

 

These are the ones I meant:

 

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/10A-DC-DC-600W-10-60V-to-12-80V-Boost-Converter-Step-up-Module-Power-Supply-UK-/350975904870

http://www.ebay.co.uk/sch/i.html?_from=R40&_sacat=0&_sop=15&_nkw=600w+dc+converter&rt=nc&LH_PrefLoc=1

 

They deal with up to 60V input so should be reasonably OK with spikes.

 

One thing to bear in mind with boost converters like these, if the output voltage is pulled *below* the input voltage, the current limit is disabled and it may blow the fuse on it. This is because there's a built in diode between input and output:

 

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Boost_converter

 

So best to start when both sides are at the same voltage, and make sure the batts being eq'd are fully isolated.

 

You could go to semi-tractions like T105s, but more money and need eq current anyway, and - more of it too....

 

cheers, Pete.

~smpt~

Edited February 8, 2015 by smileypete

[nicknorman]

These are the ones I meant:

 

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/10A-DC-DC-600W-10-60V-to-12-80V-Boost-Converter-Step-up-Module-Power-Supply-UK-/350975904870

http://www.ebay.co.uk/sch/i.html?_from=R40&_sacat=0&_sop=15&_nkw=600w+dc+converter&rt=nc&LH_PrefLoc=1

 

They deal with up to 60V input so should be reasonably OK with spikes.

 

One thing to bear in mind with boost converters like these, if the output voltage is pulled *below* the input voltage, the current limit is disabled and it may blow the fuse on it. This is because there's a built in diode between input and output:

 

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Boost_converter

 

So best to start when both sides are at the same voltage, and make sure the batts being eq'd are fully isolated.

 

You could go to semi-tractions like T105s, but more money and need eq current anyway, and - more of it too....

 

cheers, Pete.

~smpt~

I have to say that seems a better solution for EQ-ing than endless generator running at low currents. If you have say 4 x 110AH you could EQ 2, powered by the other 2. Recharge and repeat the other way round. And if 4 x T105s, same applies.

[mayalld]

 

Finally someone with some sense!! I have been going on about this because I install houses with battery systems a lot larger than narrowboats, here are some photos to wet your appetite. https://www.flickr.com/search/?q=mykonos%20solar%20wind

 

Neil please give everyone the details of your quote.

 

When it comes to connecting lots of batteries together, even 2 or more, the problem is because every battery will have a slightly different INTERNAL RESISTANCE therefore they will not charge at the same rate no matter how you connect them. The battery with the lowest internal resistance will take more current than the others and charge quicker and get overcharged sooner. The battery with the highest internal resistance will charge slower and never reach full charge. Thats why its important to have one set of high amperhour batteries and be done with it. You dont see telecoms companys or computer backup companys with a room full of leisure batteries do you!

Yes, I have seen battery rooms many times.