Council Tax and Continuous Cruisers

[DeanS]

I guess the issue should be considered against a background of new age travellers and gipsies who have been using some council facilities for free for many years. In the minds of some, CCers are just an extension of those groups.

 

Do not confuse Constant Moorers with real CC-ers . Someone who has a home mooring in Manchester, may very well decide, for job purposes that they are going to go down to London, and breast up alongside another boater, and stay for 6 months, using the facilities, but paying no council tax in London. Those "in the minds of some" folk you reference are misinformed, and dont understand the full picture, and when MPs form part of that ill informed group, it is beyond acceptable. This discussion of CMers...CC-ers has been going on for years, and by now any person in any form of authority in CRT or the Council should be educated enough to never get the 2 terms confused. end of. rant over.

[floatsyourboat]

 

Do not confuse Constant Moorers with real CC-ers . Someone who has a home mooring in Manchester, may very well decide, for job purposes that they are going to go down to London, and breast up alongside another boater, and stay for 6 months, using the facilities, but paying no council tax in London. Those "in the minds of some" folk you reference are misinformed, and dont understand the full picture, and when MPs form part of that ill informed group, it is beyond acceptable. This discussion of CMers...CC-ers has been going on for years, and by now any person in any form of authority in CRT or the Council should be educated enough to never get the 2 terms confused. end of. rant over.

This is my position Dean.

I am a new liveaboard and very shortly will be a genuine CC who will end up spending some time in London and seriously thinking f that if this artical and all the comments below it represent the kind of prejudice people will feel towards me!

Thus why I want to learn more about tax and how to inform people when they rant at me for using services.

There seems to be a growing " lack of" fear in society nowadays with people turning against each other which I find worrying!

The New World Order at work perhaps!!

[GUMPY]

Did anyone actually read the article?

From the responces here I would say not.

The article had very little to do with CC or council tax, for me it was more about people not showing consideration for others.

Everyone here just seems to want to trot out their angst against those that do not agree with their "view"

[jenlyn]

In which case I can do very little more to help you understand.

 

The thread is (allegedly) about CCers not paying council tax, and refers to a newspaper article.

The newspaper make very little reference to this - instead discussing the 'problems' of allowing 1000 boats to moor in central London.

Richard Parry says he can do little about this.

 

Ange says that me quoting his statement is "dissing" CCers

You then ask for the relevance of Richard Parry's statement.

 

I am struggling to see how what I have posted can be either "dissing" CCers, or that I can be blamed for Richard Parry's statement being of no relevance to CCers (which is in any case not what the article was about')

I suppose one factor would be that you posted your article on a thread headed "continuous cruisers". By doing that, you made quite clear your agenda.

[MtB]

Did anyone actually read the article?

From the responces here I would say not.

The article had very little to do with CC or council tax, for me it was more about people not showing consideration for others.

Everyone here just seems to want to trot out their angst against those that do not agree with their "view"

 

 

It seems not even the OP read it, given the title he gave the thread.

 

MtB

[Bee]

This is an 'argument' that has being going on for ever and will continue for ever. People like to be outraged and have someone to blame. If you can point a finger at someone who is 'getting away with it' you can heap the blame for all the ills of the world on them. It is an unpleasant side of human nature and one that cunning politicians in particular use all the time, e.g. single mothers, the unemployed, gypsies, Kosovans, immigrants in general and so on and on and on, to add to the list just buy the Daily Mail.

[MtB]

But to answer the OP's question, he could explain to his critics he would love to pay Council Tax but there is no mechanism for him to pay it, so he can't.

 

I predict if you pitch up at the council offices saying you are a resident and asking to pay your Council Tax the first thing they would want to know is your address and postcode, which obviously you can't give them. At which point I doubt it could be taken any further.

 

The best form of response to his critics would therefore be to ask HOW he can go about paying it. They are unlikely to have a coherent response.

 

 

MtB

 

 

 

(Edit to clarify an ambiguity.)

Edited January 3, 2015 by Mike the Boilerman

[fudd]

Yes I understand that but non boating people will still be left with the question why have you used services but not paid from what I have read!

There appears to be a lot of resentment which I find worrying.

.

[floatsyourboat]

 

 

It seems not even the OP read it, given the title he gave the thread.

 

MtB

Actually I did read it along with every single comment left below the article and decided to open up the debate wider as a CC myself who intends to visit the area in question, as there was a lot of talk from an MP expressing ignorance about people who live aboard with council tax being part of the debate.

Still asking for PayPal donations for the forum Mike while being a pedantic pain in the ass or is your sense of humour clearly not making me smile from ear to ear as usual;))

Edited January 3, 2015 by floatsyourboat

[Alan de Enfield]

I suppose one factor would be that you posted your article on a thread headed "continuous cruisers". By doing that, you made quite clear your agenda.

 

Its hard work today .............

 

Did YOU read the Original Post ?

Did YOU read the article that was quoted/linked in the Original Post

 

Hopefully for the last time -

 

IT WAS NOT MY ARTICLE, THE ARTICLE WAS THE ONE THAT GENERATED THE ORIGINAL POSTERS THREAD.

THE ARTICLE WAS NOT ABOUT CCer's, & I HAVE NO IDEA HOW HE GOT THE THREAD HEADLINE FROM THE ARTICLE.

THE QUOTE I POSTED WAS FROM THE ARTICLE REFERENCED TO IN THE ORIGINAL POST.

THE QUOTE I POSTED WAS RICHARD PARRY's RESPONSE TO THE STATEMENT :-

 

.......Some insisting on an alternative lifestyle disregard basic rules over mooring, smoke and pollution, says Convery, and the CRT is failing to control them.

 

The response :-

 

Richard Parry, the trust’s chief executive, says: “Canals are almost linear villages, you have services and communities growing along the canal. We have to make sure it is done legitimately and doesn’t become an impediment to other users. We have been wrestling to come up with the right response.

“We have limited legal powers and actually we don’t want to be belligerent and to make the experience of using the waterways insufferable. If you adopt not to have a home mooring, provided that you move regularly, you can live that way.”

 

Hopefully that clear

 

(No CCers were harmed, intimidated or 'dissed' in the production of this post)

Edited January 3, 2015 by Alan de Enfield

[floatsyourboat]

 

Its hard work today .............

 

Did YOU read the Original Post ?

Did YOU read the article that was quoted/linked in the Original Post

 

Hopefully for the last time -

 

IT WAS NOT MY ARTICLE, THE ARTICLE WAS THE ONE THAT GENERATED THE ORIGINAL POSTERS THREAD.

THE ARTICLE WAS NOT ABOUT CCer's, & I HAVE NO IDEA HOW HE GOT THE THREAD HEADLINE FROM THE ARTICLE.

THE QUOTE I POSTED WAS FROM THE ARTICLE REFERENCED TO IN THE ORIGINAL POST.

THE QUOTE I POSTED WAS RICHARD PARRY's RESPONSE TO THE STATEMENT :-

 

.......Some insisting on an alternative lifestyle disregard basic rules over mooring, smoke and pollution, says Convery, and the CRT is failing to control them.

 

THERE WAS NO QUESTION OF CCer's IN THE STATEMENT OR THE ANSWER.

 

Hopefully that clear

 

(No CCers were harmed, intimidated or 'dissed' in the production of this post)

Sorry your are getting grief Alan I never imagined opening up a debate wider based upon comments left below the article would be so difficult for some people!!

But to answer the OP's question, he could explain to his critics he would love to pay Council Tax but there is no mechanism for him to pay it, so he can't.

 

I predict if you pitch up at the council offices saying you are a resident and asking to pay your Council Tax the first thing they would want to know is your address and postcode, which obviously you can't give them. At which point I doubt it could be taken any further.

 

The best form of response to his critics would therefore be to ask HOW he can go about paying it. They are unlikely to have a coherent response.

 

 

MtB

 

 

 

(Edit to clarify an ambiguity.)

But the ignorance and anger against our lifestyle choice still exists so despite your best intentions your answer is not going to wash with the non boaters!

[Alan de Enfield]

Actually I did read it along with every single comment left below the article and decided to open up the debate wider as a CC myself who intends to visit the area in question, as there was a lot of talk from an MP expressing ignorance about people who live aboard with council tax being part of the debate.

Still asking for PayPal donations for the forum Mike while being a pedantic pain in the ass or is your sense of humour clearly not making me smile from ear to ear as usual;))

 

You seem to be reading an awful lot into this article - he is a "Local Councillor" NOT an MP - a huge difference.

[bigste]

So tell me, if a boater has a home mooring in Nottingham can he legally go to London and moor for 6 months without moving. If so there is a big problem which causes constant mooring in London. Instead of paying a mooring charge of up to 10k the boater just pays for one at 3k knowing he can moor in London legally. Very odd.

[Paul C]

So tell me, if a boater has a home mooring in Nottingham can he legally go to London and moor for 6 months without moving. If so there is a big problem which causes constant mooring in London. Instead of paying a mooring charge of up to 10k the boater just pays for one at 3k knowing he can moor in London legally. Very odd.

 

Not completely true - while the requirement to move "from place to place" is gone, they'd still need to move on after 14 days (or less if signed).

[Alan de Enfield]

So tell me, if a boater has a home mooring in Nottingham can he legally go to London and moor for 6 months without moving. If so there is a big problem which causes constant mooring in London. Instead of paying a mooring charge of up to 10k the boater just pays for one at 3k knowing he can moor in London legally. Very odd.

 

No - he can go and moor in London for 14 days, move & moor for 14 days, move & moor for 14 days ad-infinitum.

The difference between him and a CCer is that he does not need to be a new place every 14 days, just in a new location

[LoneWolf]

So tell me, if a boater has a home mooring in Nottingham can he legally go to London and moor for 6 months without moving. If so there is a big problem which causes constant mooring in London. Instead of paying a mooring charge of up to 10k the boater just pays for one at 3k knowing he can moor in London legally. Very odd.

 

no

[Martin Megson]

Its quite simple really.

If you live in one town, your children attend the local school, you are registered with a local doctor etc then get a permamnet mooring, declare it and pay council tax. If you declare you are a CC'er, then move around and enjoy the beautiful scenery and variety of our amazing canal and river network.

Edited January 3, 2015 by Meggers

[BruceinSanity]

Surely the point is that Council Tax is a *property* tax, payable by the person who owns or rents residential property. Lots of people don't pay it. If we had lived with our daughter in her house rather than CC'ing for six years, we still wouldn't have been liable for CT, but would have been entitled to all the local services as local residents.

 

I agree that this stuff is driven by envy and the desire to blame the "other" for the ills of life, like blaming heavy traffic on the M4 on high levels of immigration.

[Lady Muck]

My mother doesnt pay it for the granny flat on her house - its exempt due to the restrictions that were put in place when they applied for planning permission.

And schools are paid for by central government, not council tax.

[angeldust]

It is interesting, however, that when I was referred to a Consultant for a medical problem, all he seemed to want to talk about was the fact that as someone who lives on a boat I did not pay Council tax, even though I told him I did, (C&RT Residential mooring and all that!)

[Bobbybass]

I predict if you pitch up at the council offices saying you are a resident and asking to pay your Council Tax the first thing they would want to know is your address and postcode, which obviously you can't give them. At which point I doubt it could be taken any further.

 

 

 

 

 

 

I pitched up at Rugby hospital a few years back...with (as it turned out) pneumonia.

My boat was moored behind Tescos at the time.

 

The A&E computer could not cope with me having no address....until the womnan said..."Aha...you move about and live in different places. You're a TRAVELLER !"

 

At that...she 'clicked some magic button...and I was admitted.

 

She said "as a traveller...you're an ethnic minority..and as such we like to give preferential treatment"...and so..I didn't have to wait my turn..I was next 'in'.

 

As they spent a long time dignosing me....they said "you must be hungry...we'll send out for some food".

I wasn't ( of course) hungry..but they returned with sandwiches...crisps..and a bottle of water..

My wife had those....

 

I was admitted..and spent some time there... anything I wanted...was mine...including a nurse leaving the ward at 6am..and making me a nice tray with tea..and slices of hot buttered toast.

 

I liked being a traveller..it beats paying council tax...and paying your way !

[MtB]

Good thing you didn't mention you are also a landlord then, or you'd have been in last with no toast!

 

MtB

[Guest]

I pitched up at Rugby hospital a few years back...with (as it turned out) pneumonia.

My boat was moored behind Tescos at the time.

 

The A&E computer could not cope with me having no address....until the womnan said..."Aha...you move about and live in different places. You're a TRAVELLER !"

 

At that...she 'clicked some magic button...and I was admitted.

 

She said "as a traveller...you're an ethnic minority..and as such we like to give preferential treatment"...and so..I didn't have to wait my turn..I was next 'in'.

 

As they spent a long time dignosing me....they said "you must be hungry...we'll send out for some food".

I wasn't ( of course) hungry..but they returned with sandwiches...crisps..and a bottle of water..

My wife had those....

 

I was admitted..and spent some time there... anything I wanted...was mine...including a nurse leaving the ward at 6am..and making me a nice tray with tea..and slices of hot buttered toast.

 

I liked being a traveller..it beats paying council tax...and paying your way !

If correct that must be a local policy because I know of no NHS wide policy that promotes preferential treatment for 'travellers'. The Urgent Care Centres in the hospitals I was responsible for all dealt with patients in order of clinical need, or if there was no clear medical priority waiting in order of arrival.

[floatsyourboat]

 

You seem to be reading an awful lot into this article - he is a "Local Councillor" NOT an MP - a huge difference.

my mistake Alan but he's still someone with influence who could be a major pain in the neck these people are like a dog with a bone.

I'm not reading anymore into it other than what has been written all of which seems to be very negative towards boaters!

It is interesting, however, that when I was referred to a Consultant for a medical problem, all he seemed to want to talk about was the fact that as someone who lives on a boat I did not pay Council tax, even though I told him I did, (C&RT Residential mooring and all that!)

but that's a NI matter not council tax surely?

I would happily pay for some services at point of contact that way when they behave in an entitled way I can remind them who pays their bloody wages!

[Delta9]

 

She said "as a traveller...you're an ethnic minority..and as such we like to give preferential treatment"...and so..I didn't have to wait my turn..I was next 'in'.