Another down in a lock

[sueb]

I agree that signs should be where they will most easily be seen and I can't think of anywhere other than on the lock gate. As you cruise into the lock, the beam will be beside you, not above and most boaters will be keeping an eye on the side of their boat as well as the front. The signs are large and eye catching and I don't think they could be in a more obvious position. No matter where you put them, even if the signs were six feet square and hung over the lock, there would be folk who don't see them.

 

Haggis

We will have to agree to disagree. I was always too busy looking at where the front of the boat was going to notice anything written on a gate beside me (momentarily). I did spend most of the time watching the proximity of front gates to the bows.

[Martin Megson]

Just had a walk up. CRT and Anglo a Welsh on site but no forecast yet.

[Athy]

We once saw a brand new broads cruiser holed and taking on water on its first outing. Two weeks later it was fixed and back out on hire.

Boatyards can move with remarkable speed when the need arises.

On our very first hire boat holiday 20 years ago (blimey, is it really that long?) on the Canal du Nivernais, we were told of a very fat German hirer who had suffered a heart attack and passed away in the small bathroom of his GRP cruiser. The boatyard crew had cut out part of the boat's exterior, extracted the teutonic corpse, repaired the hull hole and had the boat ready for the next hirers the following week!

[Tam & Di]

We will have to agree to disagree. I was always too busy looking at where the front of the boat was going to notice anything written on a gate beside me (momentarily). I did spend most of the time watching the proximity of front gates to the bows.

 

I must admit to finding it odd that with 25 years of boating experience (according to your profile) you were never relaxed enough to be able to look anywhere other than at the far gates in a lock. I've always found that once I am familiar with the length of my craft and the locks I am using I'll be looking all around me at all times, and certainly would see any sign on the top gates as I passed. With a 70' boat in a 72' lock I would fetch up next to the top gates anyway, and with a 30' boat in a 72' lock I'd not need to look at the bottom gates as I'd know from the position of the stern how far away I am.

 

I do find it sad though that CRT feel the need to put up such signage. I suspect that the majority of those who should read the sign do not truly understand the significance of it anyway.

[TaffyRon]

I like to think I know a bit about boating but I will admit, locks still scare the s out of me, im paranoid about cills, but then my boat and contents is all I have, if I had a hire boat I could prob enjoy the canal more and ignore the cills....

 

basically, those who did this are probably laughing about this, its not their boat

Edited November 3, 2014 by TaffyRon

[Rob-M]

basically, those who did this are probably laughing about this, its not their boat

They won't be laughing if they get hit with a bill for the recovery and repair costs, when I last hired a boat a couple of years ago getting caught on the cill was a specific exclusion of the insurance cover and as the hirer I would have been liable.

[Guest]

I like to think I know a bit about boating but I will admit, locks still scare the s out of me, im paranoid about cills, but then my boat and contents is all I have, if I had a hire boat I could prob enjoy the canal more and ignore the cills....

basically, those who did this are probably laughing about this, its not their boat

I think the scariest moment we have ever had was getting the gunwale of the boat caught under a metal plate that was protruding from the wall of one of the very broad hydraulic locks on the A&CN. Given the width of the lock and it's length it was probably a chance in a million to get caught under it. As the levels rose the boat started to take on an alarming tilt and Jan attracted my attention realising something was badly wrong.

 

Fortunately it's a simple press of one 'emergency stop ' button to close all the sluices on these locks and the situation was quickly prevented from getting worse.

 

I bit of 'jiggling' then freed the boat. It was a reminder about staying vigilant as to what the boat is doing as it rises or falls. So although I don't find them scary as such you do indeed have to keep your wits about you for sure.

[MartinC]

Although we hear very little of the final outcome of these sort of incidents I am surprised that no insurer appears to have rejected any claim of this type. There is adequate provision to do this, if it proved that the steerer or crew were drunk. Some policies have a specific exclusion of claims where crew are drunk and others have exclusions such as reckless behaviour.

 

A rejected claim would then mean that the hire company would look to the hirers for a significant amount of money (well over the deposit). However, if the hire company were aware of the risks arising from the hire, they might well find that, legally, they would loose any right of redress, A couple of cases like this might solve the problem by natural market forces, i.e. the hire comany could decide if the hire receipt justified the potential loss of money.

[TaffyRon]

I think the scariest moment we have ever had was getting the gunwale of the boat caught under a metal plate that was protruding from the wall of one of the very broad hydraulic locks on the A&CN. Given the width of the lock and it's length it was probably a chance in a million to get caught under it. As the levels rose the boat started to take on an alarming tilt and Jan attracted my attention realising something was badly wrong.

Fortunately it's a simple press of one 'emergency stop ' button to close all the sluices on these locks and the situation was quickly prevented from getting worse.

I bit of 'jiggling' then freed the boat. It was a reminder about staying vigilant as to what the boat is doing as it rises or falls. So although I don't find them scary as such you do indeed have to keep your wits about you for sure.

agreed, I did something similar and got my tiller stuck under a hole in the brick sidewall, my wife couldnt hear my pleas to shut the paddles luckily I was able to push out with my feet, you need your wits, every lock is different, we also get pinched in lock 3 at hurleston and need all paddles top and bottom open to get up past the first 8 inches or so

[Jerra]

I doubt that putting the signs anywhere would make a difference. They become so common place that they just sink into the background of your attention.

 

Surely after the first couple of locks (and with hirers where possible hopefully they have been taken through one) you ar eaware of what the cill is and where it is.

 

The rest is purely lack of care and attention.

[bottle]

May I just make a point,

 

this boat is not a 'hire boat' it is a 'sponsored boat' and as I understand it, that is a 'private boat' that the owner has agreed for a hire company to hire out.

 

Lets have a little thought for the owners, it was probably their pride and enjoy.

[Jerra]

May I just make a point,

 

this boat is not a 'hire boat' it is a 'sponsored boat' and as I understand it, that is a 'private boat' that the owner has agreed for a hire company to hire out.

 

Lets have a little thought for the owners, it was probably their pride and enjoy.

It was almost certainly their pride and joy and extremely sad for them. However surely they must have known the risks of letting it be hired and found the risks acceptableto them.

 

Still heart breaking and potentially expensive for them.

[sueb]

 

I must admit to finding it odd that with 25 years of boating experience (according to your profile) you were never relaxed enough to be able to look anywhere other than at the far gates in a lock. I've always found that once I am familiar with the length of my craft and the locks I am using I'll be looking all around me at all times, and certainly would see any sign on the top gates as I passed. With a 70' boat in a 72' lock I would fetch up next to the top gates anyway, and with a 30' boat in a 72' lock I'd not need to look at the bottom gates as I'd know from the position of the stern how far away I am.

 

I do find it sad though that CRT feel the need to put up such signage. I suspect that the majority of those who should read the sign do not truly understand the significance of it anyway.

I was very relaxed thank you and I knew about lock dangers but I had no reason to have eyes on the back of my head to read the lock beam. I agree with your last paragraph.

[Dharl]

agreed, I did something similar and got my tiller stuck under a hole in the brick sidewall, my wife couldnt hear my pleas to shut the paddles luckily I was able to push out with my feet, you need your wits, every lock is different, we also get pinched in lock 3 at hurleston and need all paddles top and bottom open to get up past the first 8 inches or so

 

for exactly that reason Mrs Dharl and self have a code that if who ever is on the helm blows the horn for a long period of time when in a lock then the other person closes ALL paddles quickly! A short blast is just to get attention of the person lock side (fancy stopping after this lock for lunch? etc ).

 

Operation of locks is one thing that I have a healthy respect for and we have a 'briefing' each day before starting off...I think that s just my deep sea caution rubbing off!!

[bottle]

It was almost certainly their pride and joy and extremely sad for them. However surely they must have known the risks of letting it be hired and found the risks acceptableto them.

 

Still heart breaking and potentially expensive for them.

 

Yes of course there are risks but I bet that the sinking of their boat was the last thing they thought would happen.

[the barnacle]

i have the solution to the cill problem ---------------------- all boats should reverse into the lock when going downhill. (@;

[TaffyRon]

Easiest solution would be a length of scaffold tube welded to the rear fender (which is usually steel and rubber capped on hire boats) the same depth as the draft angled so the boat would slide off the cill, no I havent had a beer yet

Edited November 3, 2014 by TaffyRon

[DHutch]

 

..when I last hired a boat a couple of years ago getting caught on the cill was a specific exclusion of the insurance cover and as the hirer I would have been liable.

Interesting. Thats a new one on me.

Easiest solution would be a length of scaffold tube welded to the rear fender (which is usually steel and rubber capped on hire boats) the same depth as the draft angled so the boat would slide off the cill

Cant really see.how that works?

 

Daniel

[Dar Kuma]

why is everyone posting twice in their responses....

 

why is everyone posting twice in their responses....

[J R]

Just to add something to the mix. All the hire boat co's at the western end of the K & A do their show outs with professionaly qualified personnel. This year all the hire boat companies (day boat and longer hire periods) have been working to the '3 strikes and you are out'. For example, a stag booze cruise. One complaint and you get a warning. Second complaint you loose your deposit. Third complaint the hire boat company will come out and take back the boat with the police if necessary. Yes, it has happened a number of times this year.

 

You can tell anybody until the cows come home how a 20 ton boat works and how to handle it. The cills have been there for over 200 years; if they choose, for what ever reason to ignor advice then that is an unfortunate consequence for all concerned.

 

Out of interest, how many boats go through locks on the system each year and don't get cilled. IMO the boats that do not make it are a fraction of the movements involved so should be treated accordingly as a small stastical loose. Sad but true.

[DHutch]

why is everyone posting twice in their responses....

Most seem not to be, it can be down to the server being slow, but my phone often seems to normally.

 

 

Daniel

[Dyertribe]

There are some photos on the K&A facebook page. Its a hire boat (again) and without wishing to make judgements, it was commented that there are quite a lot of empty beer cans visible in the photo!

 

.............Dave,

Just to play Devils advocate the cans might have been in a bag waiting to be recycled?

[Dyertribe]

There are some photos on the K&A facebook page. Its a hire boat (again) and without wishing to make judgements, it was commented that there are quite a lot of empty beer cans visible in the photo!

 

.............Dave,

Just to play Devils advocate the cans might have been in a bag waiting to be recycled?

There are some photos on the K&A facebook page. Its a hire boat (again) and without wishing to make judgements, it was commented that there are quite a lot of empty beer cans visible in the photo!

 

.............Dave,

Just to play Devils advocate the cans might have been in a bag waiting to be recycled?

[Mike Todd]

 

This

 

About ten years ago there was a record number of sinkings, around 30 across the system. There were several debates and I was in one at Gloucester. Among the themes were

 

Where the hell do you put the signs so the boater is guaranteed to read them?

 

How do you do this without cluttering the locks with signs?

 

How do you avoid the safety precautions becoming a hazard in their own right (not relevant to cills, but fences around locks, intended to keep the public from falling, create more problems than they solve for example)

 

It's debatable whether the signs save ANY accidents, as aware boaters know to avoid the cill and gormless ones don't see the signs...

I doubt whether many cillings occur to people who did not know about the need to keep forward of the cill. Or indeed to people who failed to move their boat forward of the marker. The usual cause (and we all have come close to it at some time) is to fail to notice that the boat has then drifted backwards before it is suffiociently far down to avoid the problem. Not helped by the fact that in most locks the boat will drift backwards at some point if left free to do so and, in any case, some move backward is necessary to allow the bottom gates to open.

 

The main (or at least one) problem, I guess, is that too much alcohol dulls whatever sensibilities one had in the first place which is why it is illegal to steer (or even be in charge of) a boat and drink (tell that to all those one sees going along with a wine or beer glass/can in hand!)

[MtB]

I doubt whether many cillings occur to people who did not know about the need to keep forward of the cill. Or indeed to people who failed to move their boat forward of the marker. The usual cause (and we all have come close to it at some time) is to fail to notice that the boat has then drifted backwards before it is suffiociently far down to avoid the problem. Not helped by the fact that in most locks the boat will drift backwards at some point if left free to do so and, in any case, some move backward is necessary to allow the bottom gates to open.

 

The main (or at least one) problem, I guess, is that too much alcohol dulls whatever sensibilities one had in the first place which is why it is illegal to steer (or even be in charge of) a boat and drink (tell that to all those one sees going along with a wine or beer glass/can in hand!)

 

 

Is it? Can you cite a reference for that please, as I don't think it's true. Yet.

 

 

MtB