New vs Old - Maintenance Costs

[Richardcn]

Hi all

 

A few times during our quest for a boat we have come across something 'a little older than the norm' but recently there have been a couple of "one owner from new" within that category which, to my mind, have made them appealing enough to look at more closely. Indeed, there is one that we are 'looking at' at the moment and it has brought the previously avoided (and 'how long is a piece of string' type) question to the fore. So in taking on a boat from a well respected builder circa 1980 are the costs versus a circa 2000+ boat that much greater in the long term? And if so what, in particular, should be considered? Of course, I understand that older things generally need more care (including me and the missus ?).

 

Any help always very much appreciated.

[Naughty Cal]

You still need to maintain a new boat.

[blackrose]

It really depends on the condition of the boat. If hull repairs are required on the circa 1980 boat then maintenance costs could be far higher. Of course, the newer boat might also need major hull repairs, but that's less likely.

[Richardcn]

You still need to maintain a new boat.

 

Naturally.

 

It really depends on the condition of the boat. If hull repairs are required on the circa 1980 boat then maintenance costs could be far higher. Of course, the newer boat might also need major hull repairs, but that's less likely.

But assuming that you owned both a new and an old boat with sound hulls would there be any differences in the amount and cost of the maintenance required?

Sorry if it seems like a stupid question, I do feel a little silly asking it. I feel like I should already be able to guess at the answer, having been on the planet more than 50 years and having owned older vehicles but I am putting all that aside in my determination to assume nothing in a world that I know so little of ?

 

Edited to re-add a smiley

Edited October 25, 2014 by Richardcn

[Alan de Enfield]

Assuming that boats had :

 

The same thickness hull

The same type of insulation

The same type of fit out

The same type of engine

The engine had been regularly serviced (with evidence)

The paint was in the same condition

etc

etc

there should be little difference in the purchase price -

 

As far as maintenance goes the 'biggies' are

 

Engine

gear box

Hull

 

If those can be shown to be comparable, then there is little reason for a price difference.

 

A 30 year old engine that has all of the work done - on time, every time (from changing oil to replacing engine mounts) could be a far better proposition to a 5 year old engine that has done 250 hours and never had an oil change, the old acidic oil sitting in the sump doing all sorts of nasties, then the bilge pump packed in and the rear end of the boat sank leaving the engine submerged for weeks until it could be 'seen to' - who 'saw to it' and what did they do ?

 

The answer is in the detail and the boats' history.

[bottle]

Brand new or previously owned, maintenance costs will be the same.

 

Where the answer becomes more complicated is knowing the unknown.

 

A perfectly maintained 30 year old will probably be a better than a non maintained 20 year old and all the permutations in between. (goes for people as well)

 

Whatever boat you decide on, do as much research as possible on its history.

 

Oh! do not forget to always have a contingency fund for emergencies, new or previously owned

[Richardcn]

Assuming that boats had :

 

The same thickness hull

The same type of insulation

The same type of fit out

The same type of engine

The engine had been regularly serviced (with evidence)

The paint was in the same condition

etc

etc

there should be little difference in the purchase price -

 

As far as maintenance goes the 'biggies' are

 

Engine

gear box

Hull

 

If those can be shown to be comparable, then there is little reason for a price difference.

 

A 30 year old engine that has all of the work done - on time, every time (from changing oil to replacing engine mounts) could be a far better proposition to a 5 year old engine that has done 250 hours and never had an oil change, the old acidic oil sitting in the sump doing all sorts of nasties, then the bilge pump packed in and the rear end of the boat sank leaving the engine submerged for weeks until it could be 'seen to' - who 'saw to it' and what did they do ?

 

The answer is in the detail and the boats' history.

Brand new or previously owned, maintenance costs will be the same.

 

Where the answer becomes more complicated is knowing the unknown.

 

A perfectly maintained 30 year old will probably be a better than a non maintained 20 year old and all the permutations in between. (goes for people as well)

 

Whatever boat you decide on, do as much research as possible on its history.

 

Oh! do not forget to always have a contingency fund for emergencies, new or previously owned

Thank you, all great advice, just what we were looking for . It's help like this from the forum that will (hopefully) help us to transfer some of our previous life experiences and skills over to this new watery world and ultimately will (hopefully) help us to get the right boat at the time and at the right price!

[GUMPY]

My boat is 1993 bought it 2 years ago and in the last 2 years we have had to replace the folowing;

Solid fuel stove (nearly killed us)

Diesel heater (unsafe)

Waterpump

Shower pump

Fridge

Cooker (oven packed up)

Toilet (pump out tank rusted through)

Inverter/charger

these are all things that die with age so be prepared for at least some to go. It wont happen for a while on a newer boat

[Richardcn]

My boat is 1993 bought it 2 years ago and in the last 2 years we have had to replace the folowing;

Solid fuel stove (nearly killed us)

Diesel heater (unsafe)

Waterpump

Shower pump

Fridge

Cooker (oven packed up)

Toilet (pump out tank rusted through)

Inverter/charger

these are all things that die with age so be prepared for at least some to go. It wont happen for a while on a newer boat

Ouch! Were you aware that ANY of those were on their last legs when you purchased the boat, did you have survey done? Sounds like you've been pretty unlucky to have that lot in only 2 years! Are you liveaboard? How much do you reckon that lot came to?

[GUMPY]

Yes we had a survey, was aware of the diesel heater and the shower pump both spotted at survey.

Toilet £400

Cooker £400

Stove £300 inc new flue

Fridge £130

Inverter £700

Diesel heater £1100

Bearing in mind I did all the work myself and rewired the back end.

Forgot batteries £320

[Naughty Cal]

Ouch! Were you aware that ANY of those were on their last legs when you purchased the boat, did you have survey done? Sounds like you've been pretty unlucky to have that lot in only 2 years! Are you liveaboard? How much do you reckon that lot came to?

It isn't such a scary list!

 

Keeping a boat in full working order is a labour of love and isn't cheap.

[Richardcn]

Yes we had a survey, was aware of the diesel heater and the shower pump both spotted at survey.

Toilet £400

Cooker £400

Stove £300 inc new flue

Fridge £130

Inverter £700

Diesel heater £1100

Bearing in mind I did all the work myself and rewired the back end.

Forgot batteries £320

Still rather unlucky I'd have to say. Just for my own understanding though (anybody comment please):

 

Toilet waste tank - Are they often so inaccessible as to not be checked at survey?

Stove - Could a fault be missed if the stove was not tested (ie lit) and if so is it likely that the fault was already there at purchase? Or did subsequent wear and tear cause the problem. Sounds nasty either way!

Fridge/Cooker/Invertor - Were they already quite old (originals?) and so did you wonder how long any of them might last or were they just unlucky 'routine' failures?

 

They other items seem like normal things to go but you must have been wondering if the boat was trying to tell you something!

[John V]

Toilet tanks usually are fairly un-get-attable they also corrode from the inside, so there is often no sign until immediately before a leak!

[Alan de Enfield]

Toilet tanks usually are fairly un-get-attable they also corrode from the inside, so there is often no sign until immediately before a leak!

 

A cassette toilet does not suffer from this problem

[John V]

 

A cassette toilet does not suffer from this problem

 

No,,,,,,,,,, only the ones associated with them

[Hawkmoth]

 

A cassette toilet does not suffer from this problem

I agree with that statement, but, cassettes are not maintenance free, or immortal.

Bob

[GUMPY]

Still rather unlucky I'd have to say. Just for my own understanding though (anybody comment please):

 

Toilet waste tank - Are they often so inaccessible as to not be checked at survey?

Stove - Could a fault be missed if the stove was not tested (ie lit) and if so is it likely that the fault was already there at purchase? Or did subsequent wear and tear cause the problem. Sounds nasty either way!

Fridge/Cooker/Invertor - Were they already quite old (originals?) and so did you wonder how long any of them might last or were they just unlucky 'routine' failures?

 

They other items seem like normal things to go but you must have been wondering if the boat was trying to tell you something!

The top of the tank rusted through just a pinhole but enough to leak when it was full full. Only let that happen once.

The leak was in the only accessible place on the tank which looked fine until the pinhole appeared.

As for the stove it had the flue collar re-fitted by a well known boat repair company near Arm End which entailed removing and refitting the stove pipe. What happened is they left a pile of crap on the register plate and this caused smoke to come out of the cracks in the stove which had developed. To be honest it could have been rebuilt but I had lost confidence in it so sold it on to a refurbisher.

All items were the origional ones that came with the boat.

[Cheshire cat]

We had a toilet tank rot through at ten years old. The seams seemed to have rotted on the top surface. Managed a temporary bodge with Duc tape until we could get the bed out. Replaced the steel one with a plastic one. We were warned that the loo isn't as stable if you use a plastic one but we didn't notice the difference.

 

Our new boat has a cassette but that's purely accidental.

 

As others have said, hull and engine are the big expenses

[Bee]

A few thoughts, it is not just the age of the boat that determines how much maintenance costs. Complexity is an issue, if you can do without the fancy electrics, the blown air heating, the complicated plumbing and live with simple stuff you can maintain it easily yourself and there is less to fail a BSS on.

[trackman]

I'd say that our 8 year old boat has become marginally more expensive to maintain in recent years than we found it to be when new.

Things go wrong, like the fuel lift pump leaking and the alternator regulator failing, both in the last 2 or 3 years. These would have been warranty items if they failed when it was new, but when we had them happen they were fair wear and tear so we had to cough up!

On the other hand, when the boat was new I kept making improvements as I saw ways to make things better or easier for us. This hasn't stopped entirely but has eased off a lot. This may even offset the higher maintenance costs.

[OldGoat]

It's evening,

I've just listened to the Archers (Help!! - actually it's fun hearing the 'plot' develops) because SWMBO does.

The remains of a Whisky Mac to hand,

so rather than avoid the inevitable desire to click on the next thread,

 

Here's my two penn'orth:-

(Firstly - disclaimer, I bought the hull to order from a traditional builder and suffered what he wouldn't do,

then I fitted it out with what I thought was the best, affordable, sensible kit that I could find at the time,

and I thought with some flexibility as t what I might want to fit later)

 

• Boats are not like cars each / most are different, some subtle changes - materials, equipment, what the market is perceived to need, what the specific customer wants.
• Boats are not like houses / flats. If the layout is bad / needs changing, it's more of an effort. Given the nature of the beast it may be impossible / impracticable.
• There are no design standards = Building Regs:
• There are few wrongs and rights (within reasons)
• The important bits that make changes difficult are invariably hidden (cable runs, pipe runs).

 

• The most important point when seeking advice is to realise that the above is an absolute minefield. There is no standard
• There are degrees of rightness and wrongness. Most of which may depend on the buyer.
• It's incredibly difficult to translate the things you would expect in bricks and mortar to translate to a boat

Perhaps I'm being complacent; I built what I thought was right, I've modified some of the bits inside to accommodate The Management's changed needs, avoided others, have got stuck with what was sufficient initially and is now to capacity. I still thing the boat was right for what we wanted and now would like.

 

Run out of steam - would others now like to pitch in and expand on the above - even demolishing my pitch. I don't mind, just get the dialogue going....

 

 

[Richardcn]

Excellent detailed reply thank you. It feels like we've just been given some 'insider' information!

 

The boat that triggered this thread is now out of the frame but others will appear, I know, but we will be viewing all boats with a (slightly) more confident approach thanks to your post .

[zenataomm]

There's a lot of sense being spoken here.

Especially as I feel you are asking for directions to the fountain of youth via the nearest Alchemist.

 

Your question could just easily have been directed at houses, cars and marriage partners, and the answers been the same.

I've had 8 boats and learnt that what suited me best was to decide what was essential, desirable and non acceptable within my budget.

 

Having then narrowed it down to the one I liked the most, I had the best candidate surveyed, it's the only way to anticipate what is going to fail and what hidden horrors exist or not.

 

You're unlikely to buy a boat and keep your hands out of your pocket for a year or two.

 

Until you buy one it's best to remember "Too much analysis leads to paralysis".

 

zenataomm

[Alan de Enfield]

 

Until you buy one it's best to remember "Too much analysis leads to paralysis".

 

 

Failing to plan is planning to fail !

[zenataomm]

 

Failing to plan is planning to fail !

 

No pain no gain!