CaRT define "place"

[p6rob]

It does seem like it's taking the uncertainty out of how far you need to travel to cc within the rules and the max 14 day, no return within 28 day rule, mean you only need to repeatedly travel a-b-c-a to meet C&RT's minimum requirements.

The areas I've looked at it's a pretty low bar to comply with.

 

If boaters followed what appear to be simple guidelines, long term, C&RT will have more money available to spend on maintaining and improving the infrastructure.

 

 

 

[Dreadnaught]

It's the truth...this is all about making life as difficult as possible for boaters without a home mooring.

While the CMs make life difficult for everybody

[David Mack]

If boaters followed what appear to be simple guidelines, long term, C&RT will have more money available to spend on maintaining and improving the infrastructure.

 

Less money I think. As I explained in post#13 this definition of place legitimises short hops. People who might otherwise have thought they needed a home mooring to comply with the rules can now safely cruise a relatively modest length of canal, as long as they move every 2 weeks. It is inevitable that CRT (and other mooring providers) will lose income as a result.

[muddywaters]

As a CC'er myself I welcome this guidance which is both clear and, in my opinion, reasonable. It makes my life easier as I can now moor up confident that I have moved sufficiently far to comply with the requirements of my licence.

As someone who is hopefully within weeks of getting a boat and plan to CC, like you I find it to be really useful.

After having had a brief look on the map at where I will be cruising as I still need to be within an hours train or bus ride of Liverpool.

The distance CRT suggest I should move on these maps and the places I planed on moving to, I am actually planning to move further than CRT suggest I should.

So think I will be well within the guide lines

[Flocal]

Oh no if u need a train or need to stay in a certain area, get a house.

[Hawkmoth]

Oh no if u need a train or need to stay in a certain area, get a house.

Or get a mooring, or CC to the rules.

Bob

[NigelMoore]

Oh and as the canals are CRT's toy I think they can say what the rules are....

 

That probably sums up their attitude, but it is false.

 

The canal network is our “toy”, placed in trust for the nation. CaRT are only the administrators of that trust, and the same Parliament that has ostensibly [but dubiously] ensured the protection of the national asset for us as a nation, is the party that has imposed the rules - and the limitations to those – to ensure that the abuses and negligence of the former proprietors are guarded against, quite as much as for the proper management, and considerate use of it by ourselves.

 

It is not for CaRT to say what the rules are, it is for them to apply the rules that have been handed to them.

[Captain Zim]

 

The law says that you must "satisfy the board".

 

They have now published more detailed guidance as to what will satisfy them.

 

Seems very fair to me.

No, no, no, no, no etc. Jesus! Seriously? Can I have one of your 'I love CRT' t-shirts? I've accidentally thrown mine in the bin.

 

The board have to be satisfied of three things laid down in statute. They can't redefine or amend those three things to suit themselves.

 

I agree that this type of thing is a good idea. But they should not present it as law. It is wrong.

[Mike Tee]

Milton Keynes is one of the areas with a large number of resident boats without a mooring. If this is the definitive (for now) list of places, there are no less than ten places through MK, so this is a license for all of them to bridge hop and still keep the kids in the same school.

They do anyway, so in reality it won't make the slightest difference, just gives it a veneer of legality.

[DeanS]

Oh no if u need a train or need to stay in a certain area, get a house.

 

what a stupid comment.

[Alan de Enfield]

Do you think a pattern: a-b-c-a-b-c-d-a-b-c-d-e etc. etc. would be acceptable?

 

How do you plan to get from C back to A without passing thru' B ?

[magnetman]

It is all boll ox and part of the strategy to force CRT to fail to be followed by a sell off of valuable bits IMO

[Ricco1]

 

How do you plan to get from C back to A without passing thru' B ?

 

I don't stop at B. As far as I know the guidelines relate to mooring, rather than cruising through.

[muddywaters]

Oh no if u need a train or need to stay in a certain area, get a house.

If I wanted to stay in one place I would.

But the whole idea of me living on a boat is to move around.

And I'm not talking about bridge hopping either, in fact the way I'm planning it Most places I moor I won't even be there the full 14 days before I have to move as I will have moved on well before then.

Then taking my annual holidays intend venturing well out of the area.

Say down to Birmingham or onto the Llangollen, or up the L&L or even the Rochdale, so no I won't be in one small area.

I even have the Ribble Link on my list of to do trips

[Alan de Enfield]

 

I don't stop at B. As far as I know the guidelines relate to mooring, rather than cruising through.

 

Ok - but if you are going to 'float about' ABCABC (ie in a fairly confined area, in effect bridge-hop) then why would you not take the opportunity of having an extra 14 days (by calling in at B on your way back to A) before you have to move again

 

Just askin !

 

Your boat, your life, your 'cruise' and your choice.

[GoodGurl]

what a load of bowlocks some of you are talking, you ask CRT to define a place and they have, now get on with boating, if you seriously can't CC within the map they have given you then you really are taking the piss and deserve all they throw at you.

[MtB]

 

Ok - but if you are going to 'float about' ABCABC (ie in a fairly confined area, in effect bridge-hop) then why would you not take the opportunity of having an extra 14 days (by calling in at B on your way back to A) before you have to move again

 

Just askin !

 

Your boat, your life, your 'cruise' and your choice.

 

When the CCer's goal is to move the minimum distance possible, let's hope they are not surprised if CRT refuse to class it as cruising.

 

(Even when technically meeting the requirements of the 'places' map...!)

 

 

 

MtB

what a load of bowlocks some of you are talking, you ask CRT to define a place and they have, now get on with boating, if you seriously can't CC within the map they have given you then you really are taking the piss and deserve all they throw at you.

 

Seconded!

 

 

MtB

[Emerald Fox]

You may visit C&RT's website for 48 hours but not must return within 28 days!

"and part of the strategy to force CRT to fail to be followed by a sell off of valuable bits IMO" - Richard Branson will soon have the GU as his "Virgin Canal".

[magnetman]

Just the Regents from Kendal Green to Limehouse

Kensal

[Alan de Enfield]

Richard Branson will soon have the GU as his "Virgin Canal".

 

Will it be sealed off until the "grand opening"

[Grace and Favour]

 

Have you just invented two classes of CCers?

No, not at all. I know of boats that are CC'ers that are used by liveaboards, and some that are used as leisure, (and there are probably some that are used as businesses, too)

[John Williamson 1955]

If terms and conditions of a contract are changed, advance notice should be given.

This is another piece of needless meddling by people in offices whilst locks fall to bits and paddle gear fails to get repaired.

Your contract with CRT has not been changed at all. If you are a boater without a home mooring, you were and are required to move to a new place after at most 14days. All that has happened is that CRT have published a clarification of what they believe to be the definition of a place for the purposes of that contract. This will reduce disputes where a boater claims they have move far enough, while the CRT staff claim they haven't. If you disagree with the rules, then you can request a clarification or alteration of the terms at your own cost, as is normal in contract law. If enough people petition CRT to change a border point or points, then they may well see fit to do so.

 

In the medium and longer terms, it should free money that is currently being used to fight court cases where a decision hinges on the amount of movement undertaken to be used for maintaining the canals. I would estimate new one set of lock gates per ten cases avoided? Maybe even fewer cases would be necessary to do the extra work.

[adam1uk]

Do you think a pattern: a-b-c-a-b-c-d-a-b-c-d-e etc. etc. would be acceptable?

 

I suppose it depends on the rules for the individual places. I noticed on the Paddington Arm at the weekend that lots of the moorings (Kensall Green, for example) say it's a maximum of 14 days per calendar year.

[John Williamson 1955]

No, no, no, no, no etc. Jesus! Seriously? Can I have one of your 'I love CRT' t-shirts? I've accidentally thrown mine in the bin.

 

The board have to be satisfied of three things laid down in statute. They can't redefine or amend those three things to suit themselves.

 

I agree that this type of thing is a good idea. But they should not present it as law. It is wrong.

It's not presented as law. It is presented as a clarification of your existing contract conditions. It even says that on the guidance to boaters without a home mooring. However, failing to comply with your contract conditions as now clarified can result in you being required to remove your boat from CRT waters, and refusal to do so can result in a prison term for contempt of court as well as having your boat destroyed or removed by CRT as allowed by the dreaded Section 8 of the relevant act of Parliament.

[cherswud]

GoodGurl, on 14 Aug 2014 - 5:40 PM, said:

what a load of bowlocks some of you are talking, you ask CRT to define a place and they have, now get on with boating, if you seriously can't CC within the map they have given you then you really are taking the piss and deserve all they throw at you.

 

Seconded! said MtB

 

Thirded!

Marilyn (nb Waka Huia)

 

MtB