My boat has sunk in Kingston (1939 ww2 wooden motor cruiser)

[Aunty_Rinum]

Oh no, So sorry to see that,

A cpl of the cheapest thin tarps,to put around the hull covering any protrusion that could tare the plastic.Then as Carlt says Go to a builder's merchant and get some DPM (Damp Proof Membrane), & wrap the hull fixing it in place with maybe some Roofs battens into the Gunwhale Rubbing Strake, then a cpl of pumps going should do the trick . You could put a few Big inner tubes,into a cpl of ton builders bags, which are then fixed together with a Strong Ratchet strap passed Under the keel like a cradle out side the boat to hold or assist when 'Afloat'

Do you know why it sank ! if it's Holed, Plank or seam gave way, or a seacock failed ? Anti syphen failed on sea toilet ?.

Even if that would work, how would you propose to "wrap the hull" or pass things under the keel if it's on the bottom?

[Mr Badger]

Instead of attaching buoyancy to the keel, for which I suppose you would need a diver, you could perhaps float the buoyancy on the surface and attach it to the starboard gunwale with ratchet straps. Then ratchet away to bring that side up enough to enable use of the plastic and pumps.

[KJT]

A few more pics taken today.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Mr Badger]

Is there any scope for getting a bit of upwards traction by attaching a tackle to the top of the mooring post?

[YamYam]

Really do hope you get her re floated. Hate to see any boat in that situation. So depressing looking at those photos. Best wishes with all your efforts and all your helpers

[Ron T]

Four 44gallon empty drums,filler caps down of course chain or heavy ropes under the hull then fill the drums from a scuba bottle.You'll need two blokes in the water to fill the drums evenly,a couple of acrows across the beam to avoid crushing.One 44 will displace around 440lbs,at half an atmosphere.You must be able to get on to a couple of bubbleheads to help with the scuba bit.If non of the other suggestions work it may be worth a try.To get under the hull if it's not easy,take the outlet end of a water pump down and you can easily pass a rope or chain under after water jetting underneath.Best of luck with your operation.

[Sir Nibble]

I have been following this with the greatest interest and the only advice I have is.... Listen to Carl, he knows what he is talking about.

[smileypete]

Having a look at the 'afloat' photos, these are the large holes to cover over:

 

 

 

The rear doors open out but still should be covered well with thick placcy and thin on top in case they pop in and from leaks round the edges, maybe a batten across too. The top hatches probably just need a layer of thin placcy.

 

Looks like the rear cabin windows are fixed not hopper which is good. Any holes in the superstructure due to ongoing repairs will need covering well, with thick placcy then thin. If this is all done I doubt there's a real need for a continuous 'dam' around the edge of the perimeter.

 

Sir carlt (knighthood for services to refloating boats) hasn't called for flotation so I think I'd drop that idea, he might have something to say about my mad ramblings too...

 

ETA: Where a diver or two may come in handy is stapling placcy on the deeper siden difficult to get in there with it such an angle.

 

cheers, Pete.

~smpt~

Edited August 5, 2014 by smileypete

[Pete & Helen]

I've gone around the entire gunwale with the polythene membrane... You just can't see it, because it's wrapped up, next to the batons I used to fix it to the hull.. Ready to be released when ready....

 

It's taken me ages to do that... It was especially hard on the more submerged side... I was really hoping that would be the main part of the polythene work done!

 

Raising that polythene membrane will take all the other holes on the steps, deck etc out of the equation....

 

But, it's tricky to raise it high enough on the submerged side... Hence why I'd like to level the boat, by adding buoyancy around the outside of the keel... And then raising the polythene gunwales and pumping like crazy.

 

I guess I'm trying to seek approval for that method.. And trying desperately to ensure I haven't wasted all my time with my polythene gunwales : ( ...

 

Don't humour me though I suppose. If you think my suggestion is idiotic, then I guess I'll have to man up, and consider a rethink / jump back into the Thames : ( ...

 

Mx

 

Marcus, I'm not knocking the advice you have been given on here but Carlt has done this before and so I would advocate listening to his words of wisdom. Forget the plastic bottles and keep with the plastic sheeting and any other advice he has.

If a strop or anything slips then not only will the boat be in danger of been damaged further, but anyone close by could suffer.

 

If I was doing this I would listen to those that have done it before.

Sorry if others think I am talking out of turn but Safety has to come first, its no time to experiment.

 

I do wish you good Good Luck and hope it all goes well and safely

 

ETA Sir Nibble and Pete seem to agree with me too and at the same time

Edited August 5, 2014 by Pete & Helen

[Mr Badger]

I think if it was my boat I would be thinking about hiring some sort of floating crane at this stage e.g. http://www.riverworksltd.com/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=11&Itemid=3

[carlt]

I think if it was my boat I would be thinking about hiring some sort of floating crane at this stage e.g. http://www.riverworksltd.com/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=11&Itemid=3

With all due respect to the history and beauty of the boat you could buy a couple of them for the price of the hire of one of those beasts and you'd still have to find a way of lifting it without damaging it.

To get under the hull if it's not easy,take the outlet end of a water pump down and you can easily pass a rope or chain under after water jetting underneath.Best of luck with your operation.

 

The water jet would blow the caulking out of the seams and holes in any soft planks.

[MtB]

With all due respect to the history and beauty of the boat you could buy a couple of them for the price of the hire of one of those beasts and you'd still have to find a way of lifting it without damaging it.

 

So, given this would Marcus be better off abandoning FAIRSTAR and just buying another boat?

 

Will the EA step in sooner or later and raise it their way, and cart it away? How long does Marcus have to raise FAIRSTAR before the EA decide to do it for him?

 

Just wondering where the downside limits lie...

 

MtB

[Arthur Brown]

Simple question, looking for offers please. How many significant pumps can be available for a pumping operation on the weekend of 16/17 Aug.

 

If you are prepared to volunteer please say which dates and what size pump you can offer. The project really needs lots of 2" several 3" or a good 4" suction pump powered by petrol or diesel. Electricity will be in short supply. Pumps will need suction hose and a delivery hose to keep water flow controlled.

[carlt]

 

So, given this would Marcus be better off abandoning FAIRSTAR and just buying another boat?

 

Will the EA step in sooner or later and raise it their way, and cart it away? How long does Marcus have to raise FAIRSTAR before the EA decide to do it for him?

 

Just wondering where the downside limits lie...

 

MtB

Not yet...

 

I'm not sure how the EA respond to sunken boats as the only one I ever raised on the Thames was pretty straightforward and we were done before any officialdom expressed an interest.

 

If it isn't blocking the main channel or causing pollution they will probably not be too bothered for a while.

[MtB]

If it isn't blocking the main channel or causing pollution they will probably not be too bothered for a while.

 

 

That's encouraging.

 

It is better than 'not blocking the channel'. It's on a 'paid for' mid-stream piling mooring, so I'd imagine if someone wants to keep their boat on the riverbed on such a mooring EA would have no problem with this.

 

I'd guess any pollution will have started and finished long ago.

 

MtB

[FadeToScarlet]

Not yet...

 

I'm not sure how the EA respond to sunken boats as the only one I ever raised on the Thames was pretty straightforward and we were done before any officialdom expressed an interest.

 

If it isn't blocking the main channel or causing pollution they will probably not be too bothered for a while.

Around here, it takes over a year for the EA to recover sunken boats- but mostly they just dredge them if wooden, and several formerly beautiful wooden cruisers have ended up in bits at their Ely yard before being disposed of. There's one on the bottom near Upware, it's been the for over a year but I suspect it's days are numbered

[Arthur Brown]

Currently the boat isn't in the way which is good.

 

If this boat is to be saved then currently Marcus needs offers of fuel powered pumps for a recovery date in the near future.

Volunteers with boat, volunteers with rope, even volunteers with kettle and tea pot will all be essential as the site is off the bank even a volunteer with a transit boat is important. With an initial plan date of 16/17 August please can he have a list of volunteers to help.

 

The initial plan is that divers will lift the boat til the gunwales are about at the water level, then pumps should be able to continue the lift to normal floating height.

[Wanted]

Am trying to work out coming for the 16th. Don't have any equipment but willing and able to use hands. Will confirm ASAP

[magnetman]

Going back to the crane idea, I know a Nb which was picked up after being sunk almost out of sight very close to where this boat is and the total cost was around 10 grand...

 

I think the EA will pick/break it up at some point, not sure if they will then attempt to bill the owner?

 

Anyway a wooden boat would probably be destroyed by any lifting at all.

 

In this situation I feel that personal safety comes first, other peoples' boats second the sunk boat comes third.

 

I personally think its a wreck but I still wish everyone luck and hopefully she will float

[Nightwatch]

I have never even considered raising a sunken boat.

But as has been stressed I wou

I would certainly ask for (formally) and follow any advice Carl has to offer. I would even see if I could get him on site to assist. Carl has said he has a business to run, surely an incentive can be offered to persuade him to the Thames. He does have extensive experience of recovering boats from these types of situation.

 

Only my opinion of course. Think about it.he has already commented on getting divers involved, using cranes is a no go as is strops and lifting gear. Bouyancy barrels may cause more damage.

 

Martyn

[Marcuswarry]

Moring all & especially CarlT,

 

CarlT, would you be able to spare a bit of time for a chat please? 07879 812 789.

 

I've been following your advice so far, and as described before, I have the extendable polythene gunwales at the ready all around the boat...

 

I need to ask a specific question that is confusing me a bit.

 

Assuming I don't adopt any floatation to try and level her, and raise the gunwales to slightly neared the waterline....

 

Then, on the more sunken side, there will be about 1.5m of flimsy polythene... Between the gunwale and the roof of the wheelhouse....

 

What keeps snagging at me, is that it just feels like as the water is pumped out the boat... If there's then any difference between the water level inside and outside the boat... If the water level outside is higher... Then the pressure would simply collapse my polythene gunwale?

 

I wonder though, if you know for a fact, that as the water is pumped out from the inside... The water level between the inside and the outside, somehow stays that same? As the boat rises?

 

If the last bit is true... Then I can see how wrapping in polythene and pumping makes sense!! And I can then drop the plan to use floatation devises, and in fact raise the gunwales pretty soon, and get on with it?!

 

Does that make sense? Thanks for all your time and help so far! If be interested in seeing if you may be free to oversee the refloat, when the were ready to go for it too!

 

All the best,

 

Marcus

[RLWP]

If the water level outside is higher... Then the pressure would simply collapse my polythene gunwale?

 

Yes, it will. And the plastic will then lie across the deck and up the sides of the wheelhouse and cabin making a new, better supported polythene gunwale. This is why the plastic needs to be wide/tall enough in the first place.

 

You don't need to make a boat shaped hole above the gunwale, you need to stop water getting into the boat

 

Richard

[carlt]

Carl has said he has a business to run, surely an incentive can be offered to persuade him to the Thames. He does have extensive experience of recovering boats from these types of situation.

 

Unfortunately I am going on holiday for 2 weeks on Friday so I couldn't get there at the moment anyway.

 

It seems that Arthur has a plan for divers to lift the boat and would be interested to hear more.

 

Personally if I had divers available I would get them to wrap the whole hull in plastic sealing it up, rather than trying to mechanically lift the boat with floats.

 

The potential to cause more damage making the boat irretrievable is too great.

 

 

What keeps snagging at me, is that it just feels like as the water is pumped out the boat... If there's then any difference between the water level inside and outside the boat... If the water level outside is higher... Then the pressure would simply collapse my polythene gunwale?

 

 

Staple the polythene to the wheelhouse or, if it doesn't reach, support it by carefully inserting fibreglass tent poles between gunwale and plastic for the plastic to lean against.

 

If no tent poles are available you can use bamboo or even wooden laths, if they are long enough.

[Marcuswarry]

Oh and here's a little video of her, before she went back in the water a few months ago, after we fixed up the hull, and slapped on bitumen etc

 

Edited August 6, 2014 by Marcuswarry

[Nige G]

I have no experience of raising a boat like this but I did have to raise my nb many years ago.

 

Maybe I'm looking at it from a too simplistic point of view but surely all you have to do is seal off all the hatches and holes that are underwater leaving just the "sunroof" open, then sling in a load of pump hoses through the sunroof and pump out the water?

 

Maybe a boat either side to help steady and balance her as she comes up?