Classic Narrowboat

[scrunch]

I have in the past restored a few classic cars and campers, trying the best I could with the parts that where available to make them as original as possible.

before I go on a further to avoid people having a go at me I love all old narrowboats whether the ultra restored or total rust buckets so long as they float and move brilliant.

My question is you have an old say 1910 narrowboat nothing done to it boatmans cabin totaly original but needs restoring (wish I was talking about my own boat but unfortunately not) should it be kept as original and restored as such, or at what point, when you find that so much has to be replaced, that it is no longer that original and you might as well go for putting a full top on it and turning it into a fully fitted out narrowboat.

also obviously putting a full top on a perfectly servicable old working boat is that the same sacrilage as I got from VW owners when I chopped up a 1958 old VW Beetle to make a trike.

[craftycarper]

I have in the past restored a few classic cars and campers, trying the best I could with the parts that where available to make them as original as possible.

before I go on a further to avoid people having a go at me I love all old narrowboats whether the ultra restored or total rust buckets so long as they float and move brilliant.

My question is you have an old say 1910 narrowboat nothing done to it boatmans cabin totaly original but needs restoring (wish I was talking about my own boat but unfortunately not) should it be kept as original and restored as such, or at what point, when you find that so much has to be replaced, that it is no longer that original and you might as well go for putting a full top on it and turning it into a fully fitted out narrowboat.

also obviously putting a full top on a perfectly servicable old working boat is that the same sacrilage as I got from VW owners when I chopped up a 1958 old VW Beetle to make a trike.

. There are loads on here far more qualified than myself but I would say have a gander at narrow boat bloke and his restoration of Dover I think personally that it's a nice mix of classic and modern

[scrunch]

I have seen loads or restored narrowboats watched dover twice my questions was more about the ethics Dover is a good example to a person who didnt know it would look like a new boat.

I had a friend who converted a lovely original landrover into a camper never sure if it was right taking a very old landrover and making it into something else.

Edited June 26, 2014 by scrunch

[craftycarper]

I have seen loads or restored narrowboats watched dover twice my questions was more about the ethics Dover is a good example to a person who didnt know it would look like a new boat.

I had a friend who converted a lovely original landrover into a camper never sure if it was right taking a very old landrover and making it into something else.

. I do understand your quandary I have a few classics myself and with regard to cars originality is king but I do quite fancy an old mini with a motorbike engine so I guess if it's done right and tactfully you got to go with what suits you

[RLWP]

I wouldn't worry. I doubt there are any ex working boats that haven't already been mucked about with

 

Richard

[John V]

It is a hard question to answer and it depends so much on individual cases.

 

My barge was built in 1929 and was originally riveted construction however she had major repairs in the 60's and this was welded (partly re-decked and some bottom repairs).

When I bought her she was in a very poor state, Sunk for a long time she was re-floated and was kept afloat for nearly a year with temporary patches (large bits of sponge with a big weight on top) while I saved up for the crane!

 

She required major plate replacement partly by re-using tanks and bulkheads from the 60's refit plus about 7 ton of new plate.

However nice it would have been to have it riveted it just was not practical.

Although I have kept the lines and look of the hull the details are different.

The hull was originally lapstrake but the waterline was badly thinned and that was mostly along the recessed plate so the simplest option was to insert a doubling plate along this line turning her into carvel.

 

The wheelhouse is totally different, its my home and I wanted a proper large usable wheelhouse not a wheelbox so now she looks very different, more like a coaster than a Humber barge.

b atch to sort 211 by mudlarker2, on Flickr

But the main point is that she has survived and if I had not taken her on she would have been cut up for scrap. This must be the main thought, with my barge it would be possible for someone to remove he wheelhouse and fairly simply restore her to the "look" of a tanker barge (not that I can see any reason why anyone should)

[scrunch]

John V that is beautiful RLWP told me not to worry I tend to worry about people being harmed suffering illness and the crap things I see in my job, how I stop worrying is a trundle in my narrowboat looking at all the fabulous boats on our waterways.

[alan_fincher]

. There are loads on here far more qualified than myself but I would say have a gander at narrow boat bloke and his restoration of Dover I think personally that it's a nice mix of classic and modern

It's a view, but not one shared by us all!

 

I actually think Dover represents one of the worst things you can do, not necessarily because little attempt has been made to preserve its history, but more because if resulted in an ugly and highly impractical boat, with some inflated view of value, which in reality meant nothing.

 

I would far rather see an "honest" full cabin conversion go on the hold of a former-working boat, than some kind of pseudo "under cloth" conversion with a disproportionally widened top plank, that means the boat still looks little like it once might have.

 

In my view one of the sadnesses is how many ex-working boat that once carried full cabin conversions no longer have them. There as been a massive trend towards de-converting such boats, and "unconverted", (or "de-converted") boats are now far more common than converted ones. As many have spent far more years as live-aboard or cruising boats than they ever did as carrying ones, it seems like a whole period of history is getting wiped out as more and more lose their "tops".

 

(Mind you, I'm biased - we badly want to buy a fully converted boat, but are finding nothing of any quality actually available for sale.)

[Tuscan]

I wouldn't worry. I doubt there are any ex working boats that haven't already been mucked about with

Richard

Agreed don't worry. The great thing about the canals is the mixture of boats and people and use it. For every weekend working boater that gets on his high horse there will be another that likes what you've done.

 

Edited to add this wasn't having a pop at Alan's post above

Edited June 27, 2014 by Tuscan

[MtB]

 

My question is you have an old say 1910 narrowboat nothing done to it boatmans cabin totaly original but needs restoring

 

Couple of points here. As Richard says, there is probably no such thing.

 

Secondly, why would it need restoring? I suppose it depends what you mean by 'restoring' but I'd prefer to either keep it as it is, or construct a replica 1970s full length cabin conversion then flog it to Alan.

 

 

MtB

[koukouvagia]

It's a view, but not one shared by us all!

 

 

 

I would far rather see an "honest" full cabin conversion go on the hold of a former-working boat, than some kind of pseudo "under cloth" conversion with a disproportionally widened top plank, that means the boat still looks little like it once might have.

 

 

 

As an owner of two under cloth converted boats, I've had two principles in mind. First, the profile and shape of the conversion should be as close as possible to the original and, second, anything I have done to the boat must be reversible.

Dover fails my first principle and a well known Josher which was butchered by having its knees cut off in order to make it shallower drafted,fails the second.

 

For ten years we had our motor with an open hold but since it was no longer carrying it seemed sensible to make our cruising experience a little less Spartan.

 

I read on the forum a new objection to under cloth conversions which I hadn't thought of before viz. A clothed up boat would be low in the water, unlike modern under cloth conversions. I consulted the gauging table for Owl and discovered that with 22 inches of dryside, I can pretend I'm carring a 10 ton load.

[junior]

The boat APPLE was at Foxton last week and is now here in Braunston that definitely fits into the 'needs work' category, however I think it has a certain charm about it and (probably) looks a lot closer to what some working boats looked like at the end of the carrying days rather than how a lot look now.

 

I say probably as I wasn't alive back then and I know someone will be along to remind me that most boatmen kept their craft immaculately clean and took great pride in doing so, but I've seen plenty of photos of boats from the late 60's with faded and peeling paint etc.

 

APPLE looks more like the latter at the moment and I can just as happily stand and admire it as much as some of the shiny Joshers.

[mark99]

As an owner of two under cloth converted boats, I've had two principles in mind. First, the profile and shape of the conversion should be as close as possible to the original and, second, anything I have done to the boat must be reversible.

 

 

I think that's an excellent philosophy.

 

I know it's purely subjective however I thought the conversion of Dover resulted in a horrible juxtaposition of both style and character. Having said that I really enjoyed the programmes.

[Athy]

 

 

 

I know it's purely subjective however I thought the conversion of Dover resulted in a horrible juxtaposition of both style and character.

I can see what you mean. I think the same when I see a characterful old house which has grown one of those plastic-and-glass conservatories.

But on the other hand, it's someone's home, the extension or alteration makes them happy, so who am I to criticise? I tend to think similarly about carve-ups rebuilds such as Dover's.

[Dharl]

It is a hard question to answer and it depends so much on individual cases.

 

My barge was built in 1929 and was originally riveted construction however she had major repairs in the 60's and this was welded (partly re-decked and some bottom repairs).

When I bought her she was in a very poor state, Sunk for a long time she was re-floated and was kept afloat for nearly a year with temporary patches (large bits of sponge with a big weight on top) while I saved up for the crane!

 

She required major plate replacement partly by re-using tanks and bulkheads from the 60's refit plus about 7 ton of new plate.

However nice it would have been to have it riveted it just was not practical.

Although I have kept the lines and look of the hull the details are different.

The hull was originally lapstrake but the waterline was badly thinned and that was mostly along the recessed plate so the simplest option was to insert a doubling plate along this line turning her into carvel.

 

The wheelhouse is totally different, its my home and I wanted a proper large usable wheelhouse not a wheelbox so now she looks very different, more like a coaster than a Humber barge.

b atch to sort 211 by mudlarker2, on Flickr

But the main point is that she has survived and if I had not taken her on she would have been cut up for scrap. This must be the main thought, with my barge it would be possible for someone to remove he wheelhouse and fairly simply restore her to the "look" of a tanker barge (not that I can see any reason why anyone should)

 

John that is a LOVELY little ship you have there, the wheelhouse fits well on that hull and looks to be in proportion! Where do you keep her?

[Tuscan]

I read on the forum a new objection to under cloth conversions which I hadn't thought of before viz. A clothed up boat would be low in the water, unlike modern under cloth conversions. I consulted the gauging table for Owl and discovered that with 22 inches of dryside, I can pretend I'm carring a 10 ton load.

This is a good point we deliberately ballasted Aber to make her lower in the water for that reason, can make churning the silt more interesting sometimes compared with the empty Woolwich we let past us on the Coventry yesterday on his way to the show. Nothing compared with Aquarious with Ilford in tow that passed us fully loaded and sat us firmly on the bottom a great sight.

[adam the wanderer]

I have in the past restored a few classic cars and campers, trying the best I could with the parts that where available to make them as original as possible.

before I go on a further to avoid people having a go at me I love all old narrowboats whether the ultra restored or total rust buckets so long as they float and move brilliant.

My question is you have an old say 1910 narrowboat nothing done to it boatmans cabin totaly original but needs restoring (wish I was talking about my own boat but unfortunately not) should it be kept as original and restored as such, or at what point, when you find that so much has to be replaced, that it is no longer that original and you might as well go for putting a full top on it and turning it into a fully fitted out narrowboat.

also obviously putting a full top on a perfectly servicable old working boat is that the same sacrilage as I got from VW owners when I chopped up a 1958 old VW Beetle to make a trike.

hi i restore lots of things, cars boats motorbikes anything i can get my hands on, but i really think its upto you, but as i do i get lots of stick from people who are not happy with what i do so be prepared, Thank you

[scrunch]

Making interesting reading goods posts, I realise it is deffinately a personal thing sometimes I dont know why ssometimes I see an old working boat and it just looks right nothing to do with highly polished brightly painted although it may have just makes you stop and watch it pass.

[scrunch]

hi i restore lots of things, cars boats motorbikes anything i can get my hands on, but i really think its upto you, but as i do i get lots of stick from people who are not happy with what i do so be prepared, Thank you

Totaly agree but sometimes I just like to go a bit overkill and try and make them look as they would have come out of the factory not suceeded yet always something that I couldnt get or make. Then again getting something that has been abandoned years ago going and on the road looks dont matter just the pleasure in doing it especialy old motorbikes in a box covered in cobwebs and dust not many about now.

[John V]

 

John that is a LOVELY little ship you have there, the wheelhouse fits well on that hull and looks to be in proportion! Where do you keep her?

 

Thanks for the compliment, She is in Benfleet Essex and due to circumstances is unlikely to move for some time.

[adam the wanderer]

Totaly agree but sometimes I just like to go a bit overkill and try and make them look as they would have come out of the factory not suceeded yet always something that I couldnt get or make. Then again getting something that has been abandoned years ago going and on the road looks dont matter just the pleasure in doing it especialy old motorbikes in a box covered in cobwebs and dust not many about now.

i have just finished a 73 beetle and because it was turned into a convertible in the 80s i have been told its a butchered shed