Abuse of Lock gates?

[Bob Blues]

As a single handed boater, when going up and having to re-set the lock, I have always tied up whilst setting the lock then once set go back and drive the boat in jumping off before the gates with the center rope in my hands walking the boat in.

 

Very often now, I have seen people putting the nose of the boat (some times with a loud bang) right up against the middle of the Lock gates leaving the engine in gear whist jumping off and emptying the lock. As the lock empties and the water level reaches balancing point the gates open the boat is driven in.

 

It seems mostly Wide Beams doing this but last night I saw a working boat do it and just wondered, is this the correct way of doing it? There seems to be a massive bang when the boat comes to rest against the gates.

[Bob Blues]

As a single handed boater, when going up and having to re-set the lock, I have always tied up whilst setting the lock then once set go back and drive the boat in jumping off before the gates with the center rope in my hands walking the boat in.

 

Very often now, I have seen people putting the nose of the boat (some times with a loud bang) right up against join the middle of the Lock gates leaving the engine in gear whist jumping off and emptying the lock. As the lock empties and the water level reaches balancing point the gates open the boat is driven in.

 

It seems mostly Wide Beams doing this but last night I saw a working boat do it and just wondered, is this the correct way of doing it? There seems to be a massive bang when the boat comes to rest against the gates.

[Athy]

I think it used to be common practice amongst working boaters, for whom time was money. It can be done with a "soft bang", i.e. gently, which probably does more damage to the boat's blacking than to the gates.

[Timleech]

Normal thing to do, but out of kindness to the gates should be done reasonably gently.

 

Mind you, I've been told that working boats, rough boys in a hurry no doubt, would sometimes pile into the bottom gates with some force, if they knew the lock was nearer empty than full, and have someone ready on the deck to slip a wedge into the gap as they were forced apart. Not recommended.

 

Tim

[junior]

I think the key here is the 'bang/bump'. I've done a few locks in the way you describe, but I'm confident in my ability not to bang into the gate. If I knew I could not do it without giving the gates a whack, I wouldn't do it.

 

I single handed the Aylesbury Arm last winter when it was suffering severe water shortages. I couldn't get anywhere near the banks so the only option at locks was to rest the boat against the gate and climb up the lock gate.

[magnetman]

Gates aren't built as heavily as they used to be. In particular the breast irons (vertical iron guards at the mitre on double gates) are not as heavily made. Modern breast irons are pants compared with the old gear. Same goes for other parts of gates.

 

So breasting them open with a 'thump' rather than a 'nudge' is going to cause damage.

[OldGoat]

By today's standards it's poor practice.

I do it on narrow canals (particularly the Oxford) because it often difficult to get ashore anywhere near the lock (for all sorts of reasons). But I do take care to only gently nudge the gates, or better.

 

Some locks have steel rubbing plates to avoid damage to the timbers / mitre.

 

I wouldn't do it on a wide canal - but that's because I have a NB.

 

 

[Bob Blues]

I think the key here is the 'bang/bump'. I've done a few locks in the way you describe, but I'm confident in my ability not to bang into the gate. If I knew I could not do it without giving the gates a whack, I wouldn't do it.

 

I single handed the Aylesbury Arm last winter when it was suffering severe water shortages. I couldn't get anywhere near the banks so the only option at locks was to rest the boat against the gate and climb up the lock gate.

The guy the working boat was very gentle and only opened one paddle so I guess to stop the boat being thrown all over. It was one of the wide beams earlier this month who seamed to hit the gates so hard.

[cotswoldsman]

I do it as described when lock is full except as boat moves in I go down and take boat out of gear so it just glides in more often as not it does not make the other end. If lock is empty I just gently nudge the gates open and as the boat moves in take it out of gear and jump off

[nicknorman]

Surely there are no working boats on the system, only folk pretending. Or do you mean hire boats which are perhaps working boats?

[Bob Blues]

Surely there are no working boats on the system, only folk pretending. Or do you mean hire boats which are perhaps working boats?

 

The boat I was referring to was a Coal, Fuel boat.

 

Although, every so often you see a boat with a load of gravel heading south down the GU to the works below West Drayton. Not seen one for over a year though now. I managed to get a pic of one very low in the water full to the gunnels.

 

 

Bob

[nicknorman]

The boat I was referring to was a Coal, Fuel boat.

 

Although, every so often you see a boat with a load of gravel heading south down the GU to the works below West Drayton. Not seen one for over a year though now. I managed to get a pic of one very low in the water full to the gunnels.

 

 

Bob

A coal/fuel boat is no more a working boat than any of the other Floating Traders in Michael Wooding's gang. Therefore not a working boat in my book. The West Drayton gravel boats were, but didn't that cease quite a while ago?

[Paul C]

As above, the issue isn't the position of the boat resting on the gates, but the speed they're initially contacted. Most people seem to be able to put their boats there without the bang.

 

The technique makes massive savings in time. If another boat is using the lock and coming the other way, its even more fun! But quite possible to work out, so long as the bit of canal near the lock isn't too narrow to pass. You can steer to the left whilst in forwards neutral just as the level is equalising, then reverse to pass on the correct side. If its really windy, I might choose to moor on the lock landing if there's another boat coming but its one of the rare situations to use it.

[Paul C]

Suggest this is merged with http://www.canalworld.net/forums/index.php?showtopic=66501

[John Williamson 1955]

Surely there are no working boats on the system, only folk pretending. Or do you mean hire boats which are perhaps working boats?

I'm sure Pete, Tom and all the other working boaters on the system running the fuel boats would be offended by someone saying they're only "pretending". Never mind all the employees of the various navigation authorities and their contractors around the country.

 

Luckily, they're probably all too busy to read this forum....

 

(Edit) Following your later post, if your definition of working boats only includes long distance carrying, then you'd not want to tell the lads who used to run the day boats on the BCN or the ones running the tankers on the Regents Canal that they weren't real working boaters.

Edited May 10, 2014 by John Williamson 1955

[FadeToScarlet]

The main reason why people do it is efficiency and ease, it's a much quicker and easier way to get through, especially if you've a deep boat that can't get into lock landing stages. Think of the time saved if you don't have to walk back to the boat, untie it, push it out, and steer it into the lock- if it's already in the lock mouth, it'll come straight in when the lock is ready. It needs a great deal of care, and a bow fender, but it is possible to do it gently with no damage. Of course you shouldn't ram gates open, and I don't let the boat push them open either, although I don't think that would damage them.

 

The reason I do it is because I hate doing things a slow, inefficient way, and also to try and keep old boating skills preserved- the attitude and techniques of working are just as important, IMO, as the boats themselves and equally need to be not forgotten.

 

A coal/fuel boat is no more a working boat than any of the other Floating Traders in Michael Wooding's gang. Therefore not a working boat in my book. The West Drayton gravel boats were, but didn't that cease quite a while ago?

There are still a few people who're contracted to move things by water, Nick Wolfe, Trevor Maggs, and the South Midland gang spring to mind, along with other owners of unconverted boats carrying occasionally for fun whenever possible, e.g. On the gravel run a few years ago.

 

I'd contend that a coal and fuel boat is still a working boat, and they may be boating to a deadline, e.g. Have been held up by a low pound but need to get to a customer by a certain time- and a trading boat might also be boating to a deadline, and could probably be called a working boat.

 

.

Edited May 10, 2014 by FadeToScarlet

[Keeping Up]

I think a lot of people forget that the water flow from an emptying lock will pull the boat forwards into the bottom gates in the same way that the flow from the top paddles can pull the boat forwards into the top gates as the lock is filled. If you are going to put your bows gently against the bottom gates you have to be certain that nobody including your on crew will lift the bottom paddles as you approach.

[John Williamson 1955]

I think that there may be a prejudice in nicknorman's mind that the only "true" working boat is one that is doing what the canals were originally built for, that is, carrying goods long distances. This may have been mostly true until the coming of the railways, but even then, there were boats supplying the needs of canalside properties, and others which only ran short distances, whose crews went home every night, such as the Fly Boats on the Grand Union and Shroppie. (To name but two that I'm familiar with).

 

As far as I'm concerned, *any* person travelling the canals to earn a living is a working boater, which makes their boat a working boat. It's not an easy life, and they earn the title of "Working Boater"

 

YMMV, as they say on usenet.

Edited May 10, 2014 by John Williamson 1955

[FadeToScarlet]

Suggest this is merged with http://www.canalworld.net/forums/index.php?showtopic=66501

Done.

As above, the issue isn't the position of the boat resting on the gates, but the speed they're initially contacted. Most people seem to be able to put their boats there without the bang.

 

The technique makes massive savings in time. If another boat is using the lock and coming the other way, its even more fun! But quite possible to work out, so long as the bit of canal near the lock isn't too narrow to pass. You can steer to the left whilst in forwards neutral just as the level is equalising, then reverse to pass on the correct side. If its really windy, I might choose to moor on the lock landing if there's another boat coming but its one of the rare situations to use it.

Assuming that this is a wide lock. Bit harder to do on a narrow lock!

 

I have rested in the lock mouth on a wide canal, but don't normally, one of us is normally off and lock wheeling. I had to on the Erewash, I couldn't get anywhere near the edge on some, and that day was pretty windy to boot.

[Bob Blues]

I never said that at all it was

It was Nick who said

" A coal/fuel boat is no more a working boat than any of the other Floating Traders in Michael Wooding's gang. Therefore not a working boat in my book. "

 

I consider any boat with a trading license a working boat.

 

My original post was just a question, was it OK to do this and It seams from the replies that it is usual practice to place the boat against the lock gates.

 

Bob

[Paul C]

Done.

 

Assuming that this is a wide lock. Bit harder to do on a narrow lock!

 

I have rested in the lock mouth on a wide canal, but don't normally, one of us is normally off and lock wheeling. I had to on the Erewash, I couldn't get anywhere near the edge on some, and that day was pretty windy to boot.

 

I didn't read into it whether it was a broad or narrow lock; and that just because widebeams were mentioned later, that the former didn't apply to both widths of lock. Its much trickier to neatly rest a narrowboat in a broad lock mouth though.

[blackrose]

 

 

It seems mostly Wide Beams doing this but last night I saw a working boat do it and just wondered, is this the correct way of doing it? There seems to be a massive bang when the boat comes to rest against the gates.

 

I've opened lock gates with my boat many times. The answer is simple really, if you can't do it without making a bang then you shouldn't be doing it in my opinion.

[cheshire~rose]

Sorry

A coal/fuel boat is no more a working boat than any of the other Floating Traders in Michael Wooding's gang. Therefore not a working boat in my book. The West Drayton gravel boats were, but didn't that cease quite a while ago?

 

Nick, you really do have a way of typing a sentence than makes it appear to or looking down your nose at the rest of us!

 

By "Michael Wooding's gang" I am presuming you mean members of The Roving Canal Traders Association. They are not a "gang" but an association for people who trade on the waterways. By far the majority of them rely on trade from people along the towpath and so their trade is generally done when they are tied up and static.

Coal boats usually cover quite a distance in a day delivering to regular customers along the route but also stopping to sell to people to hail them along the way. We have stopped mid canal to transfer bags of coal to out boat from a passing coal boat before now. Coal boats operate all year round in all weathers and many of them end up delivering by van if the boat gets frozen in. Of course they are proper working boats!

[Pluto]

L&LC bottom lock gates had staples fitted on their outer side to provide hand and foot holds so that boatmen could climb from the boat onto the lock side when the gates were closed.

[nicknorman]

Sorry

 

Nick, you really do have a way of typing a sentence than makes it appear to or looking down your nose at the rest of us!

 

By "Michael Wooding's gang" I am presuming you mean members of The Roving Canal Traders Association. They are not a "gang" but an association for people who trade on the waterways. By far the majority of them rely on trade from people along the towpath and so their trade is generally done when they are tied up and static.

Coal boats usually cover quite a distance in a day delivering to regular customers along the route but also stopping to sell to people to hail them along the way. We have stopped mid canal to transfer bags of coal to out boat from a passing coal boat before now. Coal boats operate all year round in all weathers and many of them end up delivering by van if the boat gets frozen in. Of course they are proper working boats!

Have you seen the length of my nose? (Oh yes, you have!).

 

"Michael Wooding's gang" was just an affectionate, casual and personalised referral to members of the RCTA. I don't see anything offensive or derogatory in it, but like most things on this forum offence can no doubt be found somewhere if the reader is determined to do so.

 

The differences you cite are pretty minor - both the coal boats and the towpath traders tend to be stationary when doing business, both move around to find new customers, it is only the extent of that movement that is perhaps different. So yes there is a difference, but it is fairly subtle in the great scheme of things. I do get a hint from you that you might think coal boats are a "special case"? Always a dangerous line to take IMO!

 

It is clear from the last few posts that there is no agreed definition of a "working boat". It is a divisive term. Personally I suspect that a "working boater" is deemed by many to be one who dresses appropriately and has a historic boat. That is not a good definition! Working boats could be considered to include hire boats (earning much more per hour than a coal boat, must get back to base for the next hire), the categories we have already discussed, and even someone who has to get to point A to moor and get off his boat and go to work.

 

They all may have schedules, as do I when I need to get back to the marina to catch my flight home. But none of that provides any sort of permission for misuse of locks nor for claiming priority.

 

My original post was aimed at the OP saying that a boat in question was a "working boat" when in reality that point was not relevant.