Smart gauge - - charging update

[WotEver]

That's not going to help much because the pos and negs are both on the same end of the bank rather than opposits.

Yep. Difficult to tell if there's enough slack on either of the wires to move it to the other end, but it most definitely needs doing.

[Paul's Nulife4-2]

Well just looking at that lot has given me a headache Col, so can only imagine what you must be feeling like,

Good luck with that lot Nick, Tony Paul and others.

I have to be honest Col, give me a cpl of hrs in your Engine Bay, with a set of snips and I would be Happy, That's how my eng bay used to look like, it was like stepping back in time for me.

Edited April 30, 2014 by Paul's Nulife4-2

[bigcol]

Wot ever and Tony

 

Agree!! Yes to be fair I was horrified when disconnecting the BT. Battery's, the terminals were cheap and nasty, and the way the 2 battery's sit together the pos and negs are so close. What should have been a easy job to disconnect the charging cables, it was a nightmare.

 

You can get terminals with posts on, expensive but surely a better bet.

And yes. I really did install it my self, and now I have to do it properly. All for the sake of a few extra quid for terminals.

 

If one battery is good, I'm thinking of replacing the other with a 110 volt higher one, hopefully getting the terminals further away from each other.

 

Or buy just one big 140 amp battery if they do one?

 

Paul. Engine bay, snips and tape.

Edited April 30, 2014 by bigcol

[nicknorman]

That's not going to help much because the pos and negs are both on the same end of the bank rather than opposits.

 

Yep. Difficult to tell if there's enough slack on either of the wires to move it to the other end, but it most definitely needs doing.

This is of course an oft quoted issue on the forum, initiated I suspect from the man himself Gibbo. However, although it is a factor, I think in general it is a very minor factor. Although I have now changed it when I fitted the new Trojans (because I had to make up new leads anyway), in the past I did not have our bank wired across the diagonal. Charging at 175A etc, or discharging at 200A with the electric kettle on, I was unable to detect any difference in current flowing to/from the 4 batteries - all were equal - and the voltage across all the batteries was the same. This is within the resolution of my UT-203.

 

It does of course depend on the nature of the interconnect cables - we had 70mm^2 whereas Col's looks thinner, but I think it has to be pretty thin before this becomes a real issue.

 

In Col's case he has a mixture of battery ages and that is likely to be a far more significant factor in load sharing that the lack of diagonality.

 

It will be easy to pick holes in Col's installation but can I suggest we try to limit ourselves to that which is actually an issue, rather than that which merely offends!

[Naughty Cal]

I think you are right Paul, people get positively anal about all sorts of things, how much solar they have gleaned down to the last decimal point, how long it takes them to recharge, how much it costs to do this that and the other. Snake oil abounds and magic gizmos to save a few pennies etc etc.

I think everyone should just relax and enjoy their boat without getting to bogged down with stuff, just saying. Gonna join Paul for a donut.

Phil

We have possibly the simplest system you can get, a simple analogue volt and analogue ammeter.

 

Nothing fancy, nothing complicated. It's easy to understand and easy to easy to see at a glance what is happening.

 

The trouble with a lot of systems is that they are just far too complicated. Keep it simple.

[WotEver]

 

 

 

This is of course an oft quoted issue on the forum, initiated I suspect from the man himself Gibbo. However, although it is a factor, I think in general it is a very minor factor. Although I have now changed it when I fitted the new Trojans (because I had to make up new leads anyway), in the past I did not have our bank wired across the diagonal. Charging at 175A etc, or discharging at 200A with the electric kettle on, I was unable to detect any difference in current flowing to/from the 4 batteries - all were equal - and the voltage across all the batteries was the same. This is within the resolution of my UT-203.

 

It does of course depend on the nature of the interconnect cables - we had 70mm^2 whereas Col's looks thinner, but I think it has to be pretty thin before this becomes a real issue.

 

In Col's case he has a mixture of battery ages and that is likely to be a far more significant factor in load sharing that the lack of diagonality.

 

It will be easy to pick holes in Col's installation but can I suggest we try to limit ourselves to that which is actually an issue, rather than that which merely offends!

Nick, with all respect, just because you weren't able to measure any difference doesn't mean it's not there, particularly with someone else's installation.

 

There are 8 connections between battery 1 and battery 5 in Col's setup and that means that the battery furthest from the main connections will (not might) be doing less that the one the connections are attached to.

 

There are better ways of connecting than diagonally as has been described here on many occasions, but diagonally will be a BIG improvement in the long run over what's extant, particularly if/when he changes his batteries.

 

Tony

Edited April 30, 2014 by WotEver

[nicknorman]

Col, thinking about the picture "Domestic 1" can you tell us where the visible cables connected to the batteries go? The interconnects are obvious but there seem to be fat cables at each corner, and some thinner wires connected to the Left-most terminals. This will be useful later when we are trying to work out where the juice is going.

 

 

 

 

Nick, with all respect, just because you weren't able to measure any difference doesn't mean it's not there, particularly with someone else's installation.

 

There are 8 connections between battery 1 and battery 5 in Col's setup and that means that the battery furthest from the main connections will (not might) be doing less that the one the connections are attached to.

 

There are better ways of connecting than diagonally, as has been described here on many occasions, but diagonally will be a BIG improvement in the long run over what's extant.

 

Tony

There is no denying your theory is right, there would have been a difference in current and voltage undetectable by my meter. But if it is so small, why is it an issue? It is just a matter of how much of an issue it is realistically. In my view, in these circumstances, it is not the most pressing thing. I am just keen not to bombard Col with lots of "nice to have" stuff. Better to concentrate on the "must do" stuff.

Edited April 30, 2014 by nicknorman

[WotEver]

I suspect the 'must do' is going to be pretty simple once he gets his meter. Must Use Less Leccy

[bigcol]

Thinner cables on the left with fuses are

Webasto

Smart gauge

2 thick cables on left inverter

 

The 2 thick cables on the right go and bolt direct to the engine, there is 2 large post,pos insulated,just below alternator which these are the original fix to.

These are the same posts that I connected the BT thruster cables to.

Speaking to Beta, a lot of folks apparently don't know there there?

 

On the low right hand side you can just see the heavy BT cables, which at moment disconnected

 

Col

Edited April 30, 2014 by bigcol

[nicknorman]

Col also sent this "boat tour" to put meaning to all this!

 

[Paul's Nulife4-2]

Very Nice boat Col, nice indeed.

Now just to get you CCing, we could meet up Half Way !.

[bigcol]

Re the BT cables, should I reconnect?

Also should I get a isolator, which when out and about, using domestics won't drain the BT battery's.

Or is there simple relay that will allow engine charge to go in from the engine, but not let power out to to main domestic bank

 

Col

[WotEver]

Col also sent this "boat tour" to put meaning to all this!

What's the little terrier at 42"? He's gorgeous!

 

Tony

[nicknorman]

Re the BT cables, should I reconnect?

Also should I get a isolator, which when out and about, using domestics won't drain the BT battery's.

Or is there simple relay that will allow engine charge to go in from the engine, but not let power out to to main domestic bank

 

Col

Yes to the second bit. The general idea is to charge the BT batteries when on shore power or engine running, but to isolate them when on battery power only so that they don't get drained.

 

As you say, either with a manual isolator, or more user-friendly with a voltage sensing relay. These activate at some preset voltage eg 13.5 and connect the batteries together. When the charging stops and the voltage falls below this value, the relay opens. I don't think these are that much more expensive that a good isolator so that is what I would do.

 

I have never used one, but perhaps someone can recommend a good source for one?

Edited April 30, 2014 by nicknorman

[Phil Ambrose]

Yes Phylis KISS (keep it simple stupid) that's my take on most things.

Phil

[bigcol]

What's the little terrier at 42"? He's gorgeous!

 

Tony[/quote

 

Lol. Thats basil, there more meat on a 3 piece KFC no bigger than a guinea pig

He was the runt, Yorkshire terrier now 12 years old, he's very small, and plucky

then we got a proper looking Yorkshire and his 14, old, and don't move,both with hardly any teeth,

lovely strong characters and they keep going!

And a giant snazzier, also 12 years old, the least trouble, a Velcro dog, Takes up the bed

 

We didn't intend to have 3 dogs, but basil was a runt, and nobody thought he live, wife likes a challenge

And magpie the snazzier was not wanted at 2 years old

 

Tony you being a terrier owner

You know who the bosses are!

 

Col

[WotEver]

Tony you being a terrier owner

You know who the bosses are!

Oh yes.

 

Our two are brother and sister, but you'd never know it to look at them. She's tiny - around 2kg. He looks like a miniature sheepdog and weighs well over 7kg. He was christened Peanut but since the op I've nicknamed him Pea-No-nuts

[ditchcrawler]

That's not going to help much because the pos and negs are both on the same end of the bank rather than opposits.

Looked to me like a negative at both ends, but I could be wrong.

[nicknorman]

Thinner cables on the left with fuses are

Webasto

Smart gauge

2 thick cables on left inverter

The 2 thick cables on the right go and bolt direct to the engine, there is 2 large post,pos insulated,just below alternator which these are the original fix to.

These are the same posts that I connected the BT thruster cables to.

Speaking to Beta, a lot of folks apparently don't know there there?

On the low right hand side you can just see the heavy BT cables, which at moment disconnected

Col

Where is the power taken off to supply the boat's 12v needs - lights etc? Is that from the engine studs too?

[KJT]

And a 'thank you' from the 'silent ones' who watch the thread and think - 'thats just answered my own question'. Im sure there must be many of us who have gained a lot of information this way. - Keep up the good work!

Tony

Seconded. Very interesting thread (like so many) and a huge 'thank you' to the knowledgable members who give their time and expertise so freely.

 

Ken

[Arthur Brown]

Simple suggestion:

With the battery at 60 or so %SOC measure the charging current until say 95% SOC and measure it every few minutes, that way you should be able to work out how many amphours of charge were needed to make a specific rise in SOC. Then quite simply if 100 AH brought the battery from 50% to 100% SOC then the present capacity is 200AH regardless of what the indicated capacity was. Yes you have to put in the time reading your newly acquired DC clamp meter.

[bigcol]

I've posted a photo of the AC/DC control board.

Don't think this is what nick meant?

 

Just been down engine bilge, and looked at the RCD, and it points to coming from the battery's.

I've followed and looked at the studs and there's one for positive and one for neg.

These go straight to the right hand side batt of the bank.

 

But from the photo there another's another 2 cables that go to the isolator..

These must be them.

 

My courtesy lights are on a cheap timer, but from the engine battery as don't use much at all, never had a problem with these

Ps I have sent closer photos of that battery

 

What can I do with this BT charging cable?

 

Col

[bigcol]

Since I've owned the boat

I've have in my own way added

Courtesy lights that are led wired direct to engine battery fuse and timer.

BT and charging cable wired to own battery bank

8 more 240 sockets

Webasto heater wired direct to domestic battery

And 6 rads

Kitchen gulper pump ?? This is wired to fridge supply

2x 12v sockets

One wired to fridge supply

One wired plus 3 bed led lights, and a 12 v fan to direct to BT battery

240 supply to cooker and cooker head

240 to microwave

Never had any trips go

 

Col

Edited April 30, 2014 by bigcol

[Tony Brooks]

Looked to me like a negative at both ends, but I could be wrong.

 

I took it that the engine pos & neg was one end the domestic pair the other.

[Bod]

Just to ask a question, have BigCols specific gravities been checked?

Also the water levels in all those batteries.

 

Bod