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Andy Kayll

Are People Who Live On Boats Second Class Citizens?

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Comments from members of this forum about the plight of Rod Taylor and his eviction from Poplar Dock Marina have made me question just how much unity there is now in the boating world and worse, how fragmented and dog eat dog we have become...

 

The topic started with a straight forward post and has gone through so much back biting and frankly, self effacing "you bought a boat so you should expect this and think yourself lucky" it is now reminding me of, at best a Python sketch and at worst we should expect to be treated as Second Class Citizens....

 

I will declare now that I am fully in favour of regulation. I will take that further in that if a Marina operator is good then they have no fear of regulation. Any operator who says regulation may stop them trading should be stopped.

 

Please comment on the topic and start your own if you want to contemplate your navel

 

Andy :)

 

  • Greenie 1

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In response to your request in your last line, well given the potentially inflammatory tone of your post you have not a cat in hells chance of this staying 'On topic', (nor should you have really expected it to) You will just have to expect it will drift off topic, you cannot dictate other wise I'm afraid.

 

I will leave it to others to properly debate the question however my take is if you define 'second class citizens' as people with less legal rights and protection than say somebody who lives in bricks and mortar then yes, it would appear that is the case from recent cases reported on here.

 

If you define it as them being in some way 'inferior' then no.

Edited by The Dog House

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I most definitely do not class myself as a second class citizen. Elaborating on that would entail a bit of self pontification, which isn't my style though.

I do appreciate that choosing to live on a boat brings it's own set of problems, but it was my choice to persue this lifestyle so whinging about things would be a bit stupid. None of those problems make me feel a second class citizen.

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Are those of us who live aboard really that high up the ladder?

I thought as a vagrant with NFA we were at best serfs or third class citizens.

  • Greenie 1

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As TDH stayed, if you want a quiet discussion that stays on topic there are better ways of starting one.

 

legal status of those who live on boats - no worse than mine* and probably better in some ways, however yes the status of their home is more vulnerable than a paid up member of the bricks and mortar club

 

Other aspects - boat dwellers are not inferior by default, in that it is unlikely you will get turned away in a shop, snubbed in a pub or similar just because you live on a boat

 

*I'm a lodger in someone else's house: my security is very largely dependent upon the goodwill of my landlady: thankfully that goodwill is abundant.

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Are people who live on boats second class citizens? Well they have less rights than those who live ashore so in a way yes.

 

Is it really a surprise that people who own boats don't always share the same views? Well no. Those who don't own boats share different views why would owning a boat make that any different?

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It may be how you see yourself. I do not see any as 2nd class citizens, we are all who we are and does not matter whether we have bricks n mortar, goodwill of land lady, castle on hill boat or tent, we are people. We all have different views its what makes us unique, I, for one do not chose to follow the herd. Forums like this allow expression of views. But boaters 2nd class?--only if that's how you see yourself

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I think of myself more as a square peg when it comes to accessing things like doctors, dentists, etc.- anything that needs a postcode to get!

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legal status of those who live on boats - no worse than mine* and probably better in some ways, however yes the status of their home is more vulnerable than a paid up member of the bricks and mortar club

 

 

I have to disagree those that live on a boat and continuously cruise are classed by the government as "no fixed abode" this is another way of saying "homeless" in legal terms

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If the police want you for investigating an offence, then as technically "no Fixed Abode" then you could likely be held in cells on remand until the investigation is complete simply because as NFA you could up roots and move to avoid the investigation.

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Of course I'm not a second class citizen, but I am sometimes made to feel like one, yes.

 

Our mooring is not a registered address, I can't use it for post, i'm still trying to get our gp to keep us on and we didn't get a vote last time as they mysteriously lost our paperwork.

 

Managed to get car insurance which named the mooring as where the car is kept, even though it's not our postal address, that was a victory.

 

A cab driver once made me sit on a carrier bag when I asked to be taken to our moorings. No, my clothes were not dirty, only scruffy. This same cab driver was all over me like a rash when I was dressed in my work clothes and going to an airport.

 

I think things could be better, every so often something comes up that is a pain, it can be a simple thing like getting a phone repaired or a new sim - the courier won't deliver or collect, for instance.

 

But some things I've found work rounds for. I use DPD for deliveries as they let me have things sent to their depot for collection.

 

As for the way Rod was treated, well, he lives in London, do you think it's any better renting on the bankside? It's not. I know someone whose landlord has just hiked the rent by 40% and they can do nothing about it. There is nobody writing petitions for them.

 

Its now not uncommon for landlords to not bother sorting stuff like damp problems out, it only takes a couple of days to get a new tenant to replace the one that is complaining.

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You stop paying your boat license, they may remove it and seize it.

You stop paying mooring fees , they may remove it and seize it.

 

None of us really own a home anyway.

Council tax can increase rapidly.

If you stop paying council tax, the courts may eventually seize your house and sell it.

 

Whats the difference ?

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Yet another navel gazing thread, Every lifestyle choice you make has its advantages and disadvantages , if they don't suit you, change your lifestyle. personally I could not live on a boat permanently because of the restricted space, not because of any perception as to where I might sit in an imagined class structure.

Edited by David Schweizer

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Being 1st class or 2nd class is all about an individuals mindset. As has already been said, wherever and however you live can present problems, it is up to each of us to be creative and find solutions. Not always easy or straightforward I know but can be done.

Phil

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Being 1st class or 2nd class is all about an individuals mindset. As has already been said, wherever and however you live can present problems, it is up to each of us to be creative and find solutions. Not always easy or straightforward I know but can be done.

Phil

 

Agreed. Two friends of mine lived on their boat for ten years, cruising around the system but they never seemed to encounter any of the problems that some people report. Admittedly they were very organized, and did use a close relative in Sheffield as a postal address. They had no problems with doctors, vets or using Poste Restante for mail etc, they were even registered to vote, They had chosen a lifestyle and organized their affairs around that lifestyle,

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Agreed. Two friends of mine lived on their boat for ten years, cruising around the system but they never seemed to encounter any of the problems that some people report. Admittedly they were very organized, and did use a close relative in Sheffield as a postal address. They had no problems with doctors, vets or using Poste Restante for mail etc, they were even registered to vote, They had chosen a lifestyle and organized their affairs around that lifestyle,

 

Such a shame more dont follow their lead.

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It`s Andy`s first paragraph that is the telling one, `unity in the boating world` and `dog eat dog`, I think he has pointed out an uncomfortable truth. The boating world can only be a microcosm of the rest of the UK and as such has much the same unpleasant divisions. There is a section of the boating community with the cash to throw money at any problems, repairs, increasing costs and fees, moorings etc. and who`s attitude is `if you can`t afford it **** off`. That is harsh, unwelcoming to those on a normal budget and divisive, sadly there is a lot of it about.

  • Greenie 1

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It`s Andy`s first paragraph that is the telling one, `unity in the boating world` and `dog eat dog`, I think he has pointed out an uncomfortable truth. The boating world can only be a microcosm of the rest of the UK and as such has much the same unpleasant divisions. There is a section of the boating community with the cash to throw money at any problems, repairs, increasing costs and fees, moorings etc. and who`s attitude is `if you can`t afford it **** off`. That is harsh, unwelcoming to those on a normal budget and divisive, sadly there is a lot of it about.

 

Why is that any different to say people living on land?

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Agreed. Two friends of mine lived on their boat for ten years, cruising around the system but they never seemed to encounter any of the problems that some people report. Admittedly they were very organized, and did use a close relative in Sheffield as a postal address. They had no problems with doctors, vets or using Poste Restante for mail etc, they were even registered to vote, They had chosen a lifestyle and organized their affairs around that lifestyle,

I think the problem is that some people see that as 'conforming' as to what society and the 'powers that be' expect. The problems seem to come about when people try to embark on their lifestyle choice but think they don't have to conform to what most reasonable and sensible people would expect.

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Are People Who Live On Boats Second Class Citizens?

 

 

Of course they are....just like the majority of people who live in houses.

 

 

 

Two friends of mine lived on their boat for ten years, cruising around the system but they never seemed to encounter any of the problems that some people report.

Likewise.

 

I had far more problems moving back ashore when I popped back up on the Radar.

 

When I lived on a boat I had no problems with my CRB check but as soon as I went back on the electoral register they started asking me why I hadn't been on it for the previous 10 years which had never been queried before.

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Unless you are part of the 1% ruling rich elite, & their lackey politicians who do their coporate paymasters bidding, then these people consider everyone else to be 2nd class citizens & worse.

These people consider us to be way lower than 2nd class citizens. Take someone on the dole, getting the blame for the bankers stealing all the money, getting the blame for the whole of the welfare budget despite the fact they only account for 3% of it, these people are seen as worse than 2nd class citizens my the majority of the population. Now take someone on the dole living on a boat & see how far down the list the others consider them to be.

People who live on boats are not 2nd class citizens, but the system tries its very best to treat you that way, as do a vast proportion of the rest opf the population.

Fight the system.

POWER TO THE PEOPLE - Wolfie Smith, Tooting Popular Front.

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second class moved up from first class I Think.

 

those that Think they are better class then others often have merried to some Money or get a herrige from someone, it is a flew in there mind

very seldom those that made there own Money Think they are better, nor walk with there nose up in the sky.

the Brown stuff in the other end smell just the same.

 

Go to Palm beach in FL, those that live on those boats, hardly see them self as a lower speciemen

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