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Dispute at Pillings


andy the hammer
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Sorry, Dave, I don't mean to be pedantic but:-

1). QMP is the freeholder.

2). Steadman is the effective owner of the equity, by virtue of his mortgage (as you have already said)

As mortgagee, Steadman is not in a position to grant a lease to anyone. .... Mind you, that will all change when he grabs it back

So in theory the liquidator could raise cash by selling the freehold to the highest bidder, paying the Steadmans' mortgage (as a secured creditor), and then settling other debts at whatever pence in the pound? Isn't that what he's obliged to do?

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not sure how to interpret roxy's last feed, but I have to stress that I was never involved in policy making or meetings with the steadmans, when I suggested post boxes and storage sheds, I got a call then from the steadmans telling me to keep out of things, Post boxes and sheds were eventually added though! In the 2 years I was there, matt Steadman visited about 3 times, but sat in conference with paul, I never ever emailed him or rang him or his wife.

 

Rings alarm bells, because it sounds like some back-stabbing was going on behind the scenes... IF not then it doesn't cast the Steadmans in a good light!

 

cheers, Pete.

~smpt~

Edited by smileypete
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Sorry, my post was meant to highlight the fact that Mr. Lillie didn't drive a big flash car from the start based on big projected earnings, rather that it was leased / bought / acquired when the business was obviously in debt to C&RT.

 

Sorry for the confusion.

 

RL

 

Has he still got the VW Karmann Ghia as well?

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So in theory the liquidator could raise cash by selling the freehold to the highest bidder, paying the Steadmans' mortgage (as a secured creditor), and then settling other debts at whatever pence in the pound? Isn't that what he's obliged to do?

That's what I thought - unless Mr Steadman takes action in respect of his charge on the property surely once QMP goes into liquidation it's up to the liquidator/insolvency practitioner to decide how to dispose of the assets?

 

Mr Steadman isn't a Mortgagee in possession until that status is granted by the Courts - or is the situation different in the commercial world?

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So in theory the liquidator could raise cash by selling the freehold to the highest bidder, paying the Steadmans' mortgage (as a secured creditor), and then settling other debts at whatever pence in the pound? Isn't that what he's obliged to do?

 

No.

 

A secured creditor's right to claim the secured property is pre-eminent.

 

If the liquidator contends that the value of the property exceeds the debt, he can apply to a court requiring the creditor to pay back the excess into the liquidation.

That's what I thought - unless Mr Steadman takes action in respect of his charge on the property surely once QMP goes into liquidation it's up to the liquidator/insolvency practitioner to decide how to dispose of the assets?

 

Nope.

 

Mr Steadman simply presents proof of his charge to the meeting of creditors, and the property reverts to him.

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No.

 

A secured creditor's right to claim the secured property is pre-eminent.

 

If the liquidator contends that the value of the property exceeds the debt, he can apply to a court requiring the creditor to pay back the excess into the liquidation.

 

Nope.

 

Mr Steadman simply presents proof of his charge to the meeting of creditors, and the property reverts to him.

That's interesting. Thanks.

 

Potentially not quite as neat and tidy for the Steadmans as it could be if they owned the freehold and all leases/sub-leases reverted to them in the event of insolvency (as per your earlier suggestion). It's possible that there's more value (than the mortgage) in the Marina that the liquidator might want to realise. Might be interesting.

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So in theory the liquidator could raise cash by selling the freehold to the highest bidder, paying the Steadmans' mortgage (as a secured creditor), and then settling other debts at whatever pence in the pound? Isn't that what he's obliged to do?

Found this on interweb:

" Secured creditors with a 'fixed charge' over assets - for example, a mortgage secured on a property - will be paid first. Technically, assets covered by a secured charge do not form part of the estate of the company in liquidation. Once those assets are given as security they, in effect, belong to the secured creditor who would be entitled to sell them if you failed to maintain your loan payments."

 

I wouldn't be surprised if the amount of the mortgage exceeded the resale value of the marina anyway, but it appears that the liquidator can't touch it.

 

On paper, PLM Ltd appears to be both solvent and profitable. I cant imagine how that works !

PLM, presumably, have a long lease from QMP, which would continue to exist when ownership reverts to Mr Steadman.

 

Edited to say: sorry, Dave explained much more clearly whilst I was cutting and pasting

Edited by carpet wallah
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NEWS FLASH...just been informed by overseas location informer..lol.

 

They have changed their registered address from Flesh Hovel Lane to St Helens House.King Street. Derby.DE1 3EE

 

Sourced from www.CompaniesintheUK.co.uk

Edited by Shyster basher
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NEWS FLASH...just been informed by overseas location informer..lol.

 

They have changed their registered address from Flesh Hovel Lane to St Helens House.King Street. Derby.DE1 3EE

This is the address of a licensed insolvency practitioner....

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NEWS FLASH...just been informed by overseas location informer..lol.

 

They have changed their registered address from Flesh Hovel Lane to St Helens House.King Street. Derby.DE1 3EE

 

Sourced from www.CompaniesintheUK.co.uk

 

Which is the address of a firm of solicitors who might just possibly act for the Steadmans.

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Or as Carlt points out, some licensed insolvency practitioners.

 

And I think more likely the firm of solicitors there works for the insolvency practitioners than for the Steadmans.

 

Or perhaps owns the insolvency practioners.

 

MtB

Pillings Lock Marina sells boats/acts as a broker.

 

Does anyone know where in the different businesses the brokerage sits?

 

There is a forum member about to pay a deposit/hand over funds to PLM for a boat.

 

Is there any risk for him?

 

I'd say they need to ask that question themselves directly to the brokerage, then satisfy themselves that the answer was truthful!

 

 

MtB

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Pillings Lock Marina sells boats/acts as a broker.

Does anyone know where in the different businesses the brokerage sits?

There is a forum member about to pay a deposit/hand over funds to PLM for a boat.

Is there any risk for him?

Yes

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There is a forum member about to pay a deposit/hand over funds to PLM for a boat.

 

Is there any risk for him?

I would never pay a deposit for a boat to anyone. There is no point.

 

Paying for a survey is all the commitment a buyer show have to demonstrate and I see no other use for a deposit.

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And I think more likely the firm of solicitors there works for the insolvency practitioners than for the Steadmans.

 

Or perhaps owns the insolvency practioners.

 

MtB

 

I'd say they need to ask that question themselves directly to the brokerage, then satisfy themselves that the answer was truthful!

 

 

MtB

 

I think you need to remember who called the creditors meeting.

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I would never pay a deposit for a boat to anyone. There is no point.

 

Paying for a survey is all the commitment a buyer show have to demonstrate and I see no other use for a deposit.

Unfortunately most if not all brokers will not remove the boat from sale unless you pay one. I don't know of any who do business any other way.

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Unfortunately most if not all brokers will not remove the boat from sale unless you pay one. I don't know of any who do business any other way.

I have convinced several brokers that the survey is adequate evidence of my sincerity.

 

If they are unconvinced then I walk away.

 

The problem I have with putting down a deposit is that if the sale falls through then they still have their boat but they also have the deposit so the buyer is the only one at risk.

 

A one way trust system does not work.

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I have convinced several brokers that the survey is adequate evidence of my sincerity.

 

If they are unconvinced then I walk away.

 

The problem I have with putting down a deposit is that if the sale falls through then they still have their boat but they also have the deposit so the buyer is the only one at risk.

 

A one way trust system does not work.

If the sale falls through due to no fault of the buyer then the deposit is due back, at least it is when you deal with a reputable broker so for me it's that bit that is the key.

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Pillings Lock Marina sells boats/acts as a broker.

 

Does anyone know where in the different businesses the brokerage sits?

 

There is a forum member about to pay a deposit/hand over funds to PLM for a boat.

 

Is there any risk for him?

 

I wouldn't be giving them a penny - whatever they said about how safe the money is. Other brokers have gone broke and taken peoples' deposits and even full payment of boats with them, despite claiming to abide by BMF rules with separate client accounts.

 

ETA: Even if the brokerage was a separate company, PL going down is likely to take the brokerage with it as they won't be doing much business...

Edited by dor
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If the sale falls through due to no fault of the buyer then the deposit is due back, at least it is when you deal with a reputable broker so for me it's that bit that is the key.

 

Yes but in this case it's Pillings Lock, so no reputable broker involved.

 

MtB

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