Considering my first boat. Help?

[Jenza]

Heya all, I am considering this one as a purchase for my first boat http://narrowboats.apolloduck.co.uk/feature.phtml?id=334782 what i was wondering is if it would at all be possible for anyone who really knows their boats to come along and give it a look with me?

[DeanS]

Welcome

it looks a decent boat.

I'm not in London...but someone will be along to help soon

[harve90]

Jenza go have a look, you will feel if it's the boat for you, if you fall in love with it that's good, but before committing to buy it get a survey done. If it is for living on you might need to invest a bit in refurbing some of the systems, but even at that it looks like a good boat for the money. Good luck. Keep us posted :-)

[Athy]

_{Never heard of the builder but the broker is very reputable and well thought of. Good little engine, which would probably not have been new when installed, but these Listers have a reputation for reliability. The price is attractive.}

[Tuscan]

Attractive price and looks good, if you are keen invest in a surveyor and look to be there as well as you can learn a lot.

[Athy]

I wonder why the owner is selling the boat less than two years after buying it - could be worth finding out.

[bigste]

Bear in mind that it has a 6mm base and could need a replate in the near fure so a survey is a must. I'd bet money that's why the price is attractive.

[Neil2]

If this is your first boat the main thing to consider is how easy will it be to sell when, not if, the time comes.

 

This is one reason why I personally I wouldn't advise anyone to buy a 60 footer as a first boat. There are other reasons.

 

It's not unreasonable to ask why the owner is selling.

 

It's been said many times on the forum, but you should try and look at dozens of boats before you take the plunge.

 

This particular boat looks like reasonable value but only if you have some experience. The interior looks very DIY to me, it's a noisy engine, possibly a little underpowered, The pump out loo could be a minus point and it seems to have a tiny galley for a 60 footer.

 

[Athy]

If this is your first boat the main thing to consider is how easy will it be to sell when, not if, the time comes.

 

This is one reason why I personally I wouldn't advise anyone to buy a 60 footer as a first boat. There are other reasons.

 

It's not unreasonable to ask why the owner is selling.

 

It's been said many times on the forum, but you should try and look at dozens of boats before you take the plunge.

 

This particular boat looks like reasonable value but only if you have some experience. The interior looks very DIY to me, it's a noisy engine, possibly a little underpowered, The pump out loo could be a minus point and it seems to have a tiny galley for a 60 footer.

 

One man's noisy is another man's (or woman's) distinctive, traditional and appealing exhaust beat. I thought it might be a bit low-powered (hence my reference to it as a little engine) but it has presumably been pushing the boat around successfully for some years.

I think that Jenza has already viewed several other boats. I also suspect that if she buys this one she will be getting her pots of paint out.

[Jenza]

Jenza go have a look, you will feel if it's the boat for you, if you fall in love with it that's good, but before committing to buy it get a survey done. If it is for living on you might need to invest a bit in refurbing some of the systems, but even at that it looks like a good boat for the money. Good luck. Keep us posted :-)

OH i will take a look! no doubt! what systems are you talking about?

 

_{Never heard of the builder but the broker is very reputable and well thought of. Good little engine, which would probably not have been new when installed, but these Listers have a reputation for reliability. The price is attractive.}

 

Thanks for the info, ill admit i know very little about engine type!

Attractive price and looks good, if you are keen invest in a surveyor and look to be there as well as you can learn a lot.

 

how much does a surveyor usually cost?

I wonder why the owner is selling the boat less than two years after buying it - could be worth finding out.

Ill send the seller a message, thanks.

 

Bear in mind that it has a 6mm base and could need a replate in the near fure so a survey is a must. I'd bet money that's why the price is attractive.

 

Thats a little worrying. Thanks for the info. How much is replating?

If this is your first boat the main thing to consider is how easy will it be to sell when, not if, the time comes.

 

This is one reason why I personally I wouldn't advise anyone to buy a 60 footer as a first boat. There are other reasons.

 

It's not unreasonable to ask why the owner is selling.

 

It's been said many times on the forum, but you should try and look at dozens of boats before you take the plunge.

 

This particular boat looks like reasonable value but only if you have some experience. The interior looks very DIY to me, it's a noisy engine, possibly a little underpowered, The pump out loo could be a minus point and it seems to have a tiny galley for a 60 footer.

 

Im curtious why you dont think going for a 60 footer as a starter is a good idea? I was basically hoping to get one of a decent size with an extra bed for a guest or even if someone decides to come live with me on the life afloat

 

It does look a little DIY but honestly that doesnt really put me off, it just means that i may be able to make it more mine :3

 

I also considered a pump out toilet to be an absolute must. is that not the case?

One man's noisy is another man's (or woman's) distinctive, traditional and appealing exhaust beat. I thought it might be a bit low-powered (hence my reference to it as a little engine) but it has presumably been pushing the boat around successfully for some years.

I think that Jenza has already viewed several other boats. I also suspect that if she buys this one she will be getting her pots of paint out.

I have been looking at a lot of boats. As much as i may like to, i am not rushing this at all. And yes! The paint would definitely be deployed Any boat i get, I will need to make it MINE so paint! nick nacks! And perhaps even a new name for the boat.

[MtB]

I'll come and look over it if you wish* but I'm inclined to suggest you raise your budget a bit. Thinking in terms (as I suspect you are) of buying a cheap boat and 'doing it up' doesn't actually work. You'll spend far more money, blood sweat and tears than it would have cost to buy a boat in good condition in the first place.

 

Brokers know the value of boats and no matter how nice it looks in the photos, there WILL be a good reason for it being cheap. The task is to uncover it, which may well involve you stumping up £1k approximately to find out. Surveys cost about £1k each these days, so best not to have too many done in order to get your education!

 

MtB

 

* I note there are a couple of forum members far closer than me to Iver. Salty Splash is very close indeed IIRC and recently offered to look over another boat for sale there for another forum member.

Thats a little worrying. Thanks for the info. How much is replating?

A nice round figure would be £10k.

Im curtious why you dont think going for a 60 footer as a starter is a good idea? I was basically hoping to get one of a decent size with an extra bed for a guest or even if someone decides to come live with me on the life afloat

I don't see any problem with 60ft. A longer boat is little different from a shorter one in terms of handling. Everything else is proportionally more expensive though, licence, moorings etc

I also considered a pump out toilet to be an absolute must. is that not the case?

Cassette bogs are simple with virtually no scope to go wrong. You'll appreciate the value of this once you live on a boat! Pump-outs can smell diabolically, and you have to pay £15 to empty them. That's if you can find a pump out station working, and then find the bloke selling the cards. All on a freezing cold Sunday afternoon as the light is fading.... And when you are iced in with a full tank, you'll really appreciate a cassette!

I have been looking at a lot of boats. As much as i may like to, i am not rushing this at all.

Good. Do you mean you are driving about actually viewing lots of boats for real, or is is armchair/internet looking?

MtB

[Athy]

Mike, the fact that the boat is 25 years old surely has a bearing on its price, nothing more sinister than that?

 

Jenza, Listers are British engines, made in Gloucestershire since God was a boy. The company still exists so spare parts should be easy to get. The SR2 type goes thump-thump most alluringly, and usually for manymanymany years as long as you have it serviced regularly, as you would for a car.

[dor]

Mike, the fact that the boat is 25 years old surely has a bearing on its price, nothing more sinister than that?

 

Jenza, Listers are British engines, made in Gloucestershire since God was a boy. The company still exists so spare parts should be easy to get. The SR2 type goes thump-thump most alluringly, and usually for manymanymany years as long as you have it serviced regularly, as you would for a car.

It is given as 1988, then says year constructed 1998!

 

If it had a survey done a couple of years ago I would want to see that before going any further. Whilst you will still need your own survey, if the previous survey shows flaws that have not been fully addressed then you can save yourself the cost of another survey. If they make excuses ("oh I can't find it now" etc) then walk away as it said something bad.

[Jenza]

just sent an email asking for the survey, and yes i have been traveling out to see boats for a while (even before i had the money!)

 

Basically I have tried lowering my budget a bit so that i can invest in some new camera equipment and stuff for my business

[Jenza]

I also saw this one, http://narrowboats.apolloduck.co.uk/image.phtml?id=334835ℑ=8 which look interesting, plenty of space.

[Neil2]

Jenza - what I was trying to say is it's almost a universal law that you never buy just one boat - the first boat you get is the one that you learn on, and you may find, no, you will find that certain assumptions, values, priorities go out of the window once you start doing it for real. So the first boat, you will almost certainly want to sell maybe after a year or two - just like the owner of this boat is doing. So you want something that isn't going to lose you much money and that you will have a ready market for.

 

A 60 foot boat with an air cooled engine and a DIY fit out is never going to be the easiest thing to sell.

 

MTB is offering good advice - get up to around £29,000 asking price and there's plenty of quality boats around that will cause you few problems and you will have no trouble selling. You'll see that under £25,000 covers a multitude of sins and it's rare to find a genuine bargain. Basically you are taking on someone else's problems - fine if you have your eyes open and you get it at the right price, but it's a bit risky if you lack experience.

 

Also, if it's feasible you'll probably find better value boats further north, ie east and west midlands.

 

 

[Richard T]

We own the big sister to this http://www.abnb.co.uk/boat_pages/2502web/2502abnb.php?BoatID=2502 Yes its bit more than you might want to pay but its been on the market now for some 4 or 5months so offers might be accepted. The build quality on Tyto Alba is excellent so have no reason to think that Cromdale will be any different. It also shows what you get for a bit more money. Have fun looking - if you want eyes in my part of the world I would be happy to help out.

[Stilllearning]

Lots of sensible suggestions have been made:

Asking price and actual selling prices can be hugely different,

the better the fit out and hull maker, the more the resale value,

and you almost certainly will be selling again in a few years,

water cooled engines provide you with hot water as a by product of pushing you along the canal,

pump out loos that go wrong are horrible to fix, and I speak as an ex boatyard worker,

do remember that you need to have a mooring unless you are going to continuously cruise.

Take up any offers of advice that you get, but treat us all with a bit of scepticism, we all have our prejudices and axes to grind....did I mention that I have a nice 55 foot trad boat for sale ????

Good luck!

[MtB]

We own the big sister to this http://www.abnb.co.uk/boat_pages/2502web/2502abnb.php?BoatID=2502 Yes its bit more than you might want to pay but its been on the market now for some 4 or 5months so offers might be accepted.

 

The reason CROMDALE isn't selling is obvious on a first pass though the details...

 

Two berths only, and both single beds!

 

Rules out 90% of buyers immediately. There's so way I'd ever buy such a boat unless I planned major surgery to construct a double bed cabin.

 

MTB

[Grace and Favour]

 

The reason CROMDALE isn't selling is obvious on a first pass though the details...

 

Two berths only, and both single beds!

 

Rules out 90% of buyers immediately. There's so way I'd ever buy such a boat unless I planned major surgery to construct a double bed cabin.

 

MTB

Nice looking boat, though..........

[Richard T]

 

The reason CROMDALE isn't selling is obvious on a first pass though the details...

 

Two berths only, and both single beds!

 

Rules out 90% of buyers immediately. There's so way I'd ever buy such a boat unless I planned major surgery to construct a double bed cabin.

 

MTB

Both single bedrooms would convert to double with a minimum of work - biggest expense would be the mattress - especially if you were a compotent joiner.

[madcat]

Important part is the soundness of the hull, only a good survey will give you this information.

 

It really is a case of "no foot no horse' no hull no boat"

 

Good luck and I hope you find a boat to make you happy

[MtB]

Both single bedrooms would convert to double with a minimum of work - biggest expense would be the mattress - especially if you were a compotent joiner.

 

I'm not sure I'd describe it as a 'minimum of work'. Maybe a week or ten days for a competent joiner at say £200 a day, plus say £500 materials to completely finish the job including decoration, lighting and new flooring. I note a simliar job mentioned in another thread for which the final bill was £11,000.

 

Jenza, are you a competent joiner?

 

MtB

Edited December 29, 2013 by Mike the Boilerman

[Richard T]

 

I'm not sure I'd describe it as a 'minimum of work'. Maybe a week or ten days for a competent joiner at say £200 a day, plus say £500 materials to completely finish the job including decoration, lighting and new flooring. I note a simliar job mentioned in another thread for which the final bill was £11,000.

 

Jenza, are you a competent joiner?

 

MtB

Not going to argue with you Mike you obviously know the market better than me!! But whoever paid £11k was ripped off.

[Jenza]

To be honest im not sure what a joiner is

 

At the moment i am looking to get something round the 25 mark if possible, doesnt matter where in the country, Ill make a holiday of bringing it down to london.

Edited December 29, 2013 by Jenza