CC-ing distance. (again)

[cotswoldsman]

Dean you surely must know that CRT can not give a distance the best they can do is tell you what they consider will keep you within what they consider enough. Most CCers manage to keep within the spirit of the rules. Like Ange I do most of my cruising during the summer and slow down dramatically in the winter and this seems to have kept me out of enforcement for nearly 8 years.

[BruceinSanity]

i seem to remember it cites "over the period of your licence" or some such. So we've taken that to mean we can amble in the winter cos we explore during the summer.

 

Stop fretting Dean and just do what you need to do - you'll be way beneath the pisstakers radar

Hear, hear. We CC-ed for 6 ½ years without sweating too much about the rules. We moved often because we don't like staying in place for more than a few days, ambled around the bits of the system we particularly like (T&M, GU, Ox, Cov, those sort of canals) and never worried for a moment about being challenged.

 

We did keep a daily log of our travels, mainly to keep track for our own use but also so that we could produce it if ever the patrol asked about it, but we needn't have bothered. As has been said, bona fide navigation is a state of mind, that's why there are no hard and fast distances, and from what you've said, I'm sure you're compliant even now.

[twbm]

I think you are letting the possibly self inflicted problems of a small number of highly publicised and much debated piss takers cause you unecessary angst.

 

If you really need to get an answer or at least build a portfolio of evidence to show you've done your best if ever approached in the future, I suggest you write to / email C&RT in a similar vein to your OP, outlining your typical cruising pattern and asking if it satisfies the requirements. You might want to send it via Registered Post so at least you can say 'I asked but you didn't reply' if it gets filed in the bin.

 

Mean while as your cruise diary takes you across two counties (If you count Greater Manchester as a 'county') and three metropolitan districts my guess is you should relax. And bear in mind that sometimes folk with enforcement roles ask questions just to confirm their impression that you're one of the good guys - 'Hi, I think I saw you in Blackburn a few weeks ago' shouldn't have you reaching for the mooring spike.

[Ex- Member]

Blimey the paranoia this forum can create LOL. I have no problem what so ever with the rules or guidelines, to me and Lynn they are perfectly clear and easy to comply with, I really dispare sometimes LOL Just read the guidelines and do it FFS

[MtB]

We did keep a daily log of our travels, mainly to keep track for our own use but also so that we could produce it if ever the patrol asked about it, but we needn't have bothered. As has been said, bona fide navigation is a state of mind, that's why there are no hard and fast distances, and from what you've said, I'm sure you're compliant even now.

 

Now this raises an interesting point I've not seen not discussed here so far...

 

It used to be the local patrol officer who noticed when a boat was "non-compliantly continuously cruising" (to put it in non-emotive terms), and negotiated with and encouraged the boater to move to the point they were considered to be 'complying'. Personal interpretations of the law and indulgences incorrectly granted by patrol officers to such boaters is what caused all the trouble and the need for Roving Mooring Permits etc, AIUI.

 

This appears to have lead to BW/CRT reducing the authority and status of patrol officers to 'data gatherers', and they now just dab boat numbers into a hand-held device for later uploading for analysis in the vast computer halls back in CRT mission control. Enforcement appears to have been centralised and systemised.

 

I therefore deduce that well defined criteria must exist for flagging up candidates for 'enforcement', and I think it would be to CRT's credit if they published this enforcement criteria along with updates whenever they changed or refined it.

 

Although the law is a muddle, CRT must have clear criteria they use on a day-by-day basis. Requesting, encouraging, (or ultimately perhaps forcing using FOI requests) publication of the current criteria would give us all a better, clearer and fairer understanding of how much we need to move around, as well as answering Deans OP. And if/when CRT tighten their criteria (still within the law), it would be open to scrutiny and boaters would still know how to comply or challenge the criteria. At the moment the only way to challenge the secret criteria seems to be to offend, and go to court to test CRT's position.

 

A good subject to for discussion at future meetings with CRT i suggest. Or has it already been done to death at these meetings and been refused?

 

 

MtB

[bottle]

Dean

 

Chill, even if you do not comply, you will not immediately be dragged up before the courts, letters will be sent and then you have a chance to give reasons why you think you did comply.

 

If push comes to shove and they say you must be more vigilant in your cruising, then you apologise and say that you will.

 

I know this is not your area but for instance the Gloucester Sharpness is 16 miles long (and a dead end unless you go to sea) but by moving to a different place/ village/ town etc it is possible to be on that stretch of water for more than a year and still be a CCer.

[dmr]

Dave and Gillies rule of Continuous cruising...

 

Forget the rules altogether, just move whenever the water tank needs filling up and you won't go far wrong. Going forward to the nearest tap and reversing back to your previous spot is just about acceptable in Winter but only once on any given tap!.

 

Do Not keep any plastic containers on the boat and so be tempted to carry water to the boat!

 

..............Dave

[Sunsoup]

I'm also unsure of rules so tend to move A-Calderdale, B-Lancashire, C-Kirklees, D-Wakefield. Not had any probs at the moment, but have been told that there is a lady boat owner who is taking photos of boats she thinks are not CCing enough and reporting to C&RT.

Edited September 2, 2013 by Sunsoup

[Higgs]

Yup...no ABABABAB cruising. So if you go ABCDEF...at some point you might like to turn around and do FEDCBA and perhaps turn again...especially if you're in a widebeam and have limited routes available.

 

junior is probably right...I shouldnt have started yet another thread on this....but jeez it's frustrating.....

 

I think, if you do LLANFAIRPWLLGWYNGYLLGOGERYCHWRNDROBWLLLLANTYSILIOGOGOGOCH as a cruising pattern, even better.

[David Mack]

 

I think, if you do LLANFAIRPWLLGWYNGYLLGOGERYCHWRNDROBWLLLLANTYSILIOGOGOGOCH as a cruising pattern, even better.

Nah. That hopping between G and O at the end isn't allowed, nor the 4 successive stays at L!

[DeanS]

I know I might come across as frantic, nervous, or paranoid, but as usual, we must all remember that the forum is not real life, and IN real life, I do just float around, relaxed, peaceful, and blissfully unaware of any "big brother is watching" type of pressure. It's only when I get in front of a keyboard, that all these "what if" scenarios seem to come flooding to the fore.

 

in case any of you were actually concerned with my mental well being...LOL.

[sueb]

Hear, hear. We CC-ed for 6 ½ years without sweating too much about the rules. We moved often because we don't like staying in place for more than a few days, ambled around the bits of the system we particularly like (T&M, GU, Ox, Cov, those sort of canals) and never worried for a moment about being challenged.

 

We did keep a daily log of our travels, mainly to keep track for our own use but also so that we could produce it if ever the patrol asked about it, but we needn't have bothered. As has been said, bona fide navigation is a state of mind, that's why there are no hard and fast distances, and from what you've said, I'm sure you're compliant even now.

You were a lightweight we did 25 years with only one ticket. We took our elderly dog to the vets and saw the enforcement officer going up the towpath. We got an apology

[NBDensie]

I dont understand why genuine navigators want to remain at one place for weeks at a time. We normally move most days with occasional stops of 2-3 days. After a stationary week I really would be twitching and jabbering.

 

I agree with the "state of mind" answer. If you are wandering around because thats what you want to do you are probably acting within the letter and spirit of the rules. If you are moving on the 14th day for the minimum distance you think you can get away with you probably arent.

[matty40s]

I dont understand why genuine navigators want to remain at one place for weeks at a time. We normally move most days with occasional stops of 2-3 days. After a stationary week I really would be twitching and jabbering.

 

 

because thats what YOU do, others are different.

[Kiwidad]

If you are moving on the 14th day for the minimum distance you think you can get away with you probably arent.

A bit judgmental don't you think? Moving on the 14th day, be it the minimum required or further, is what is required. Nothing more, nothing less. Not everyone wants to whiz around.

 

Disclaimer...I am a whizzer.

Edited September 2, 2013 by Kiwidad

[DeanS]

I dont understand why genuine navigators want to remain at one place for weeks at a time. We normally move most days with occasional stops of 2-3 days. After a stationary week I really would be twitching and jabbering.

 

I agree with the "state of mind" answer. If you are wandering around because thats what you want to do you are probably acting within the letter and spirit of the rules. If you are moving on the 14th day for the minimum distance you think you can get away with you probably arent.

 

It's simple really.

 

In the beginning we had 6 people on board, and had to urgently rush between elsan points.

We had to cruise to charge batteries and get to the next petrol station so we could buy more petrol for the gennie.

We couldnt actually stay and enjoy anywhere long, due to the above.

We rushed around for months. We spent a fortune on diesel.

 

Now...we have solar panels so we dont have to cruise to charge batteries.

I'm buiding in extra water storage tanks, so we dont have to go looking for a refill every 3days.

I'm getting extra elsan casettes so we dont need to find an elsan point for at least 14days.

I want to cruise, find some cows, stop, put out the chairs, and stay for 14days...because I can

 

;-)

[Ange]

I dont understand why genuine navigators want to remain at one place for weeks at a time. We normally move most days with occasional stops of 2-3 days. After a stationary week I really would be twitching and jabbering.

 

We normally cover a lot of distance in the summer but this year we're painting the boat, plus Dave's been making shelves for a fellow boater, so we've taken it a lot easier and regularly stop for 2 weeks at a time. It's actually been quite refreshing to explore the areas we're passing through.

[matty40s]

...I am a whizzer.

sometimes....

[RockSodem]

keep your boat clean, don't mess the towpath, don't bridge hop, don't overstay on 24hr etc moorings, don't spend a day on a watering point etc. All common sense and good manners. I suspect, rather naively , the CRT have tried to word their guidelines with this in mind. Don't take the piss, and you'll be fine. If you were to push me on distances? I would say parishes, and two months before you come back for a lengthy period. A couple of days back here or there should really not be a problem. As they say... just don't get on their radar.

Edited September 2, 2013 by RockSodem

[MtB]

To be a CCer as I understand it, a boater declares they are engaged in bona fide navigation.

 

I suggest that anyone seeking a minimum distance to move in 14 days is by definition not engaged in bona fide navigation, thereby demonstrating themselves non-complaint.

 

 

MtB

[BruceinSanity]

You were a lightweight we did 25 years with only one ticket. We took our elderly dog to the vets and saw the enforcement officer going up the towpath. We got an apology

Gee, thanks Sue, first nice thing anyone's said about my weight for years!

[cotswoldsman]

To be a CCer as I understand it, a boater declares they are engaged in bona fide navigation.

 

I suggest that anyone seeking a minimum distance to move in 14 days is by definition not engaged in bona fide navigation, thereby demonstrating themselves non-complaint.

 

 

MtB

Sorry I do not understand the logic of that. Are you saying if a CCer just wants to move very slowly spending time in certain areas he is not a CCer?

[DeanS]

To be a CCer as I understand it, a boater declares they are engaged in bona fide navigation.

 

I suggest that anyone seeking a minimum distance to move in 14 days is by definition not engaged in bona fide navigation, thereby demonstrating themselves non-complaint.

 

 

MtB

 

So are all northern CC-ers meant to be heading for Bath, and all southern CC-ers meant to be heading for Ripon?

[Paul C]

 

So are all northern CC-ers meant to be heading for Bath, and all southern CC-ers meant to be heading for Ripon?

 

Have a read though the Davies vs British Waterways judgement and let us know what you think of it. Here is a link to the info:

 

https://www.whatdotheyknow.com/request/british_waterways_vs_davies

[Timleech]

 

So are all northern CC-ers meant to be heading for Bath, and all southern CC-ers meant to be heading for Ripon?

 

No, but it could be argued that your plan would entail shuffling up & down the same bit of canal and not really going anywhere. It would make it look as though you are tied to something in the area which is something CRT flag up as making you unsuitable for the CC role, even if that has no legal significance.

I have no axe to grind, I expect that you would be able to keep off the radar, but it could be interpreted that way by some.

 

Tim