CRT No Longer Wish To Meet With Boaters

[sueb]

I'm so sorry John, Jenlyn and all that your hard work failed. I have watched so many start off saying we can work with BW/Cart then find out the reality. They are the bosses and we the ants. Please take heed of Simon's post. I don't feel starting a new organisation is the way forward. There are plenty in existence already. There will be enthusiasm to start with which will gradually die. The existing organisations need the enthusiasm which people here can bring to them and they have experience and money which can be used to aid boaters.

[Guest]

I'm sure many boaters are quite happy with the way things are though........and often something that might be affecting boaters in one area, isnt affecting boaters in another area, so it's not a pain felt by all....I agree with your comment about accountability.

 

They may well be Dean but what is the avenue for those who are not??

 

I'm generally happy with the way things are, a lot of stuff currently going on does not directly affect me but how long before some draconian proposal does??

 

Wedge thin end of?

[Starcoaster]

The issue for me seems to be one of accountability, there just doesn't seem to be any.

 

Ultimately if we are unhappy about what the Trust is or is not doing where do we go?

 

If you are unhappy about your treatment in the NHS you can go to the Health Service Ombudsman or the relevant clinicians regulatory body, if unhappy with your insurer you have an ombudsman you can ultimately call on' the same as financial services.

 

CRT seem to be able just to do what the heck they like because it appears (to me at least) there is no one to hold them to account.

 

Charities commission perhaps??? but I suspect they will be more or even only interested in the financial operation not unhappiness with the disdain they are treating their paying customers.

 

/\ This.

[PeteLeigh]

Oh, and by the way, as a continuous cruiser, I am keeping a photographic record of all the facilities which are out of use, so I can claim a refund for services which are not available

[DeanS]

ok, so they cant fix the water point between bridge 197 and 197a on the L&L, but they can fix a cracked cill on lock48. I think that's a fair outlook for the future....they'll hopefully always fix the big jobs, but we need to carry our own water bottles and extra elsan casettes....and make longer planks, and moor on towpaths not VMs.

[Jean]

Well, we don't need to love fishermen but I believe that on many stretches of canal they have to buy a permit to fish. I assume that some of that fee goes to the local angling club and some goes to BW/ CART/ Whatever.

 

Well, we don't need to love fishermen but I believe that on many stretches of canal they have to buy a permit to fish. I assume that some of that fee goes to the local angling club and some goes to BW/ CART/ Whatever.

The angling clubs get the permit charges as they rent sections of canal and other waterways.

[Guest]

ok, so they cant fix the water point between bridge 197 and 197a on the L&L, but they can fix a cracked cill on lock48. I think that's a fair outlook for the future....they'll hopefully always fix the big jobs, but we need to carry our own water bottles and extra elsan casettes....and make longer planks, and moor on towpaths not VMs.

 

Your key and telling word is hopefully.

 

Locks are not important to none boaters or cyclist or fishermen in fact it would also be better to stop those pesky boaters opening them swing bridges and spoiling the enjoyment for others who then can't cross the canal so let's leave the next one that seizes stuck closed....

[Jerra]

they'll hopefully always fix the big jobs,

That is exactly what worries me. If/when the priority becomes towpath users and the only need for boats is because the towpath users like to see them, then some of the big jobs can be left.

 

Towpath users won't care that the L & L isn't navigable from end to end so lets save a bit of money and stop maintaining some of the swing bridges in the middle. Oh and that will give us the added advantage that locks X & Y don't need to work.

 

EDIT: Dog House beat me by a short head!

Edited August 15, 2013 by Jerra

[Tinhare]

So, 10m other users. Hmm, how much do they contribute to CRT income? I'd assume next to nowt. The "friends" scheme doesn't appear to be generating a lot of interest but I don't have the income figures.
How do CRT subsidise their income. Here's a thought, will go down like a lead ballon at CRT though. You want to walk on the towpath £2.00pa please. You want to ride your bike on the towpath that'll be £5.00pa. Can you imagine it. Well over £20m in revenue. Perish the thought.

[bassplayer]

So, 10m other users. Hmm, how much do they contribute to CRT income? I'd assume next to nowt. The "friends" scheme doesn't appear to be generating a lot of interest but I don't have the income figures.

How do CRT subsidise their income. Here's a thought, will go down like a lead ballon at CRT though. You want to walk on the towpath £2.00pa please. You want to ride your bike on the towpath that'll be £5.00pa. Can you imagine it. Well over £20m in revenue. Perish the thought.

A sane comment at last. We could charge a fiver per view of our boat (as apparently that's an attraction). We could end up quids in...

[PeteLeigh]

ok, so they cant fix the water point between bridge 197 and 197a on the L&L, but they can fix a cracked cill on lock48. I think that's a fair outlook for the future....they'll hopefully always fix the big jobs, but we need to carry our own water bottles and extra elsan casettes....and make longer planks, and moor on towpaths not VMs.

water points are VITAL, so get it fixed NOW

[Jigsawged]

Hold on a minute...in the context of this current thread, so far we have seen one email from one individual. We share the disappointment and frustration felt by Cotswoldman and Jenlyn and it is a great shame that things have reached this stage so soon. Let us not throw out the baby with the bath water just yet.

 

Perhaps there is the opportunity for Mr Dodwell to sit down with Cotswoldman and Jenlyn and explain his comments face to face. After all, apart from the email, he has not exercised his right to reply so we don't yet have his response to the furore to consider.

 

Now, I'm not defending CaRT and if what he said represents the view of the trust then it is indefensible and needs to be challenged. However, we have all written things without considering the impact of our words and later regretted writing them. Perhaps on reflection, he may consider what he wrote to be wrong and ill thought out.

 

How about a cooling off period and an attempt to get round the table and find out once and for all whether we boaters, 30% funders, are to be treated with disdain and high arrogance or whether we can have a constructive dialogue. Then we will know where we stand. At the moment every one is up in arms and flying off the handle.

 

Peace in our time....maybe....if not, Calm Down & Carry On

[PeteLeigh]

A sane comment at last. We could charge a fiver per view of our boat (as apparently that's an attraction). We could end up quids in...

My boat's worth a tenner to look at !

[DeanS]

That is exactly what worries me. If/when the priority becomes towpath users and the only need for boats is because the towpath users like to see them, then some of the big jobs can be left.

 

yes, but then you could cruise up and down between the 2 stoppages and have all the VMs to oneself.

[PeteLeigh]

Hold on a minute...in the context of this current thread, so far we have seen one email from one individual. We share the disappointment and frustration felt by Cotswoldman and Jenlyn and it is a great shame that things have reached this stage so soon. Let us not throw out the baby with the bath water just yet.

 

Perhaps there is the opportunity for Mr Dodwell to sit down with Cotswoldman and Jenlyn and explain his comments face to face. After all, apart from the email, he has not exercised his right to reply so we don't yet have his response to the furore to consider.

 

Now, I'm not defending CaRT and if what he said represents the view of the trust then it is indefensible and needs to be challenged. However, we have all written things without considering the impact of our words and later regretted writing them. Perhaps on reflection, he may consider what he wrote to be wrong and ill thought out.

 

How about a cooling off period and an attempt to get round the table and find out once and for all whether we boaters, 30% funders, are to be treated with disdain and high arrogance or whether we can have a constructive dialogue. Then we will know where we stand. At the moment every one is up in arms and flying off the handle.

 

Peace in our time....maybe....if not, Calm Down & Carry On

Fine,but don't forget that canals were built for BOATS

[Tuscan]

That is exactly what worries me. If/when the priority becomes towpath users and the only need for boats is because the towpath users like to see them, then some of the big jobs can be left.

 

Towpath users won't care that the L & L isn't navigable from end to end so lets save a bit of money and stop maintaining some of the swing bridges in the middle. Oh and that will give us the added advantage that locks X & Y don't need to work.

 

EDIT: Dog House beat me by a short head!

That reminds me quite a few years ago when a canal side pub at Bulburne was first tarted up, it as made very clear that boats were for passing to be seen from the beer garden and not tied up for a couple of days wanting beer in the bar as opposed to food.

[MtB]

Fine,but don't forget that canals were built for BOATS

 

I think that CRT have been looking long and hard at the Basingstoke canal. Boats are clearly not necessary for a canal to attract significant funding. The water only needs to be 6" deep to still look the same, and crumbling disused locks are just as interesting to nature lovers, dog walkers and cyclists.

 

Look at the Basingtsoke. Vitually no VMs, virtually no facilities, virtually no boats. See the future.

 

It's not pretty, but it suits the authorities just fine.

 

 

MtB

[Jigsawged]

Fine,but don't forget that canals were built for BOATS

Where did I forget that? When you've boated for 30 years on the canals, you kinda get to know that.

[cotswoldsman]

Hold on a minute...in the context of this current thread, so far we have seen one email from one individual. We share the disappointment and frustration felt by Cotswoldman and Jenlyn and it is a great shame that things have reached this stage so soon. Let us not throw out the baby with the bath water just yet.

 

Perhaps there is the opportunity for Mr Dodwell to sit down with Cotswoldman and Jenlyn and explain his comments face to face. After all, apart from the email, he has not exercised his right to reply so we don't yet have his response to the furore to consider.

 

Now, I'm not defending CaRT and if what he said represents the view of the trust then it is indefensible and needs to be challenged. However, we have all written things without considering the impact of our words and later regretted writing them. Perhaps on reflection, he may consider what he wrote to be wrong and ill thought out.

 

How about a cooling off period and an attempt to get round the table and find out once and for all whether we boaters, 30% funders, are to be treated with disdain and high arrogance or whether we can have a constructive dialogue. Then we will know where we stand. At the moment every one is up in arms and flying off the handle.

 

Peace in our time....maybe....if not, Calm Down & Carry On

I am off to bed so will just say this. What you say is fine I have not suddenly turned anti CRT the slight problem is that we have been told CRT no longer wish to talk to us so sitting down with them would be very difficult we have not closed any doors but CRT have closed the door on us they no longer wish to meet as I have said it is a great shame as a great number of boaters were supporting is. These same debates are happening on Facebook and a lot of boaters are very diss appointed that boaters have tried to engage but CRT no longer wish to be part of that process They did not even do it via a conversation it was simply done by email.

[PeteLeigh]

Where did I forget that? When you've boated for 30 years on the canals, you kinda get to know that.

Oh, a newby then ...

[billS]

bill,its matty seeing as you want to get personal.

I move boats amongst other things, for a living, and see most of the network on a regular basis.

Stop pretending this won't affect you at some point soon.

I only pinpointed the problems on the s oxford to alert other boaters as to potential delays.

I am dismayed at the towpath negligence this year. Far worse than last year and being encouraged by the new hessian sausages.

you use a scythe now, john dodwell says ok, but not too often.

so next year you cant scythe it clear because a little sign has been installed .

"Conservation Area"

 

Wake up, see what is happening, or if you keep trolling, fek orf

 

matty40s - I asked how often you had boated on the South Oxford, and said that it was no worse this year than any of the previous years. I struggle to see how you can see this as a personal attack on you.

 

Accusing me of trolling, and telling me to fek off certainly is personal against me,

 

My expressed views are genuinely held. I know they are running against the grain of the majority of posters on this thread, but if we can't have a civilised discussion on on a discussion forum, then I am seriously unimpressed.

 

I love the canals, spend over 150 days per year on the cut, and wish it could be more. I don't want to see decline, and so far, I think it's more perception by relative newcomers than real. I happen to disagree with some of the tactics which have been used,to try to engage with CRT, however well intentioned, and I deplore some of the vitriol which has been directed at one of the trustees, based on a percieved and I mean perceived affront of the snippet of the email which which was published in the original post.

 

I will admit that I havent been south of Anyho since early June. I will be migrating back south to the K&A in a couple of weeks. If things have really deteriorated since then, I will acknowledge it - but please do not accuse me of trolling just because my opinion does not agree with yours.

Edited August 15, 2013 by billS

[magpie patrick]

 

I think that CRT have been looking long and hard at the Basingstoke canal. Boats are clearly not necessary for a canal to attract significant funding. The water only needs to be 6" deep to still look the same, and crumbling disused locks are just as interesting to nature lovers, dog walkers and cyclists.

 

Look at the Basingtsoke. Vitually no VMs, virtually no facilities, virtually no boats. See the future.

 

It's not pretty, but it suits the authorities just fine.

 

 

MtB

 

I'm not getting involved in CRT but I'd have to challenge that version Mike. The Basingstoke has been at risk of disappearing altogether due to leaks etc and the visitor numbers are appalling compared with most canals, even though for most it is bank side visitors who outnumber boaters by 10 to 1 or more.

 

I will admit the fact it goes through Woking doesn't help , but overall, the worse it's got the more difficult the Basingstoke Canal Authority have found it to cling onto the canal at all. Some of the councils were refusing to pay their share at one point, because they weren't getting anything for their money.

 

Canals need some boats to generate benefits for any local economy, they don't need to be overwhelmed, but they need some. Land based visitor spend on the K and A went up by 30% the day it opened, and have been climbing ever since. Compare what the nearby coal canal gets with the K and A, even the short bit I moor on is a case of crumbs from the rich mans table, with the K and A being the rich man.

 

Edited because it had posted twice

Edited August 15, 2013 by magpie patrick

[Jigsawged]

I am off to bed so will just say this. What you say is fine I have not suddenly turned anti CRT the slight problem is that we have been told CRT no longer wish to talk to us so sitting down with them would be very difficult we have not closed any doors but CRT have closed the door on us they no longer wish to meet as I have said it is a great shame as a great number of boaters were supporting is. These same debates are happening on Facebook and a lot of boaters are very diss appointed that boaters have tried to engage but CRT no longer wish to be part of that process They did not even do it via a conversation it was simply done by email.

Cotswoldsman, I have nothing but admiration for the efforts that you and others have put into trying to develop a working relationship with CaRT so there is no implied criticism. As you can see from the responses, quite a few forum members are really fired up and building an anti-CaRT camp. I'm just hopeful that when the dust has settled, reason might prevail and some dialogue may be resumed. That can only be a good thing and something that I suspect would be dear to your heart. Don't give up, we can't afford to be sidelined. Sleep well and don't shoulder too much of the burden yourself, it'll do you no good.

[bassplayer]

I am off to bed so will just say this. What you say is fine I have not suddenly turned anti CRT the slight problem is that we have been told CRT no longer wish to talk to us so sitting down with them would be very difficult we have not closed any doors but CRT have closed the door on us they no longer wish to meet as I have said it is a great shame as a great number of boaters were supporting is. These same debates are happening on Facebook and a lot of boaters are very diss appointed that boaters have tried to engage but CRT no longer wish to be part of that process They did not even do it via a conversation it was simply done by email.

I'm off to bed too. At least some have guaranteed moorings for a while.

[nb Innisfree]

I've heard that CaRT plans to corral boaters in special 'concentration marinas' surrounded by barbed wire, we've got to watch the slippery bastards. I don't fancy being overlooked by armed CaRT guards in watchtowers.

 

It could happen you know.