Can I Canoe You Up The River...

[magpie patrick]

Tackling the triumphs and tribulations of my recovery, I'm thinking of new ways to canal bash. As most of you know I own Juno, a 23 foot cruiser. In some ways she is both too big and too small. Too small to live on, too big to readily tow with an ordinary car. When I get my licence back next year I'll be sticking with smaller cars for a while until the insurance implications of become apparent. I suspect my premiums will be high.

 

The ideal would probably be a 50-60 foot narrow boat and a tiny cruiser such as a Shetland 16: this is a pipe dream at the moment not least because the narrow boat would have to come first: using Juno as semi-liveaboard is doable, a Shetland 16 really not so! Anyway, scale the idea down a bit and I end up with Juno and a canoe...

 

My taste in waterway exploration is not limited to the main canal system and certainly not just to those silly little ditches in the midlands. Juno can be trailed and can go on estuaries, that was the main reason for buying her, but a canoe can reach even further, The Neath Canal? The Avon through Chippenham? The Parret from Thorney Lock to Oath Lock?

 

However, I will have limited storage, no garden and no garage, and will want to cart the thing round in a car (I doubt it is possible by bus, but someone may know different), so an inflatable canoe has appeal. Does anyone have any experience of these? I think a two person canoe as if someone wanted to join me that would save them needing their own canoe!

 

Also, any suggestions as to juicy bit to explore on abandoned canals and rivers, I've some ideas, but others most welcome

 

Thoughts?

[JDR]

I had a go on a Sevylor Pointer inflatable kayak on the Thames and was unimpressed. Takes a lot more effort to maintain speed and not as stable as a rigid.The bog standard £150 secondhand kayak I had was an order of magnitude better.

[Paul C]

Sorry, can't help about inflatable vs rigid canoes, but I bet if you asked around, there's plenty of places a canoe could be stored. For example, a kind boater's offside mooring, a wharf or marina's outbuilding, etc

 

I'd choose the disconnected but navigable section of the Montgomery first - you could go up the in-water areas which are inaccessible to normal boats because of stop planks at bridges, lack of winding hole right at the end, etc. But anywhere really, that is easier to get the car to then launch a canoe, rather than have to reposition the boat. So anywhere you wish to go, or go to again, would be possible.

[Lady Muck]

I think NB Willawaw has one, you could try asking him on one of the Facebook groups he moderates, or on Just Canals. If you know anyone who has a Costco card, thats the best place to get an inflatable, much better value than anywhere else - when they did rigid canoes they were a whole £200 cheaper.

[DaveC]

Lidl occasionally have inflatable canoes but any inflatable canoe I have seen - not only those from the likes of Lidl - seem to be hard work for the paddler. Saw a chap pumping one up on the Thames early this year and suddenly it went bang. End of canoeing and end of canoe.

 

Hope it's not too long before you get mobile by car again Patrick then you can get a roof rack.

 

 

Dave

[Dave_P]

I have a Sevylor Tahiti Plus inflatable http://www.amazon.co.uk/sports-leisure/dp/B004I9YX8E and it has its pro's and cons. Of course it's not as good through the water as a rigid kayak because it's an inflatable. The massive advantage is that it fits neatly under the front deck of my boat and can be picked up and stuck in the boot of my Ford Fiesta. The one I have is a 2+1 (2 adults, 1 child) and it works great with two adults only, leaving space of luggage and leg-stretching. It doesn't really like having just one person in it though, doesn't sit well in the water then.

 

I use it for exactly what the OP suggests, exploring those places which other craft cannot reach and it's a winner for me.

 

One final point, get a skeg for it. It makes a world of difference.

[Chris Pink]

However, I will have limited storage, no garden and no garage, and will want to cart the thing round in a car (I doubt it is possible by bus, but someone may know different), so an inflatable canoe has appeal. Does anyone have any experience of these? I think a two person canoe as if someone wanted to join me that would save them needing their own canoe!

 

Also, any suggestions as to juicy bit to explore on abandoned canals and rivers, I've some ideas, but others most welcome

 

Thoughts?

Canadian canoe roofrack and a friendly boater to keep it for you intween times. In fact I know a few people who you would lend you theirs - it seems one of the more popular unused accessories.

[carlt]

If it's portability you want, combined with usability then something like a Porta Bote might be a better option though they are expensive.

[ditchcrawler]

I had a go on a Sevylor Pointer inflatable kayak on the Thames and was unimpressed. Takes a lot more effort to maintain speed and not as stable as a rigid.The bog standard £150 secondhand kayak I had was an order of magnitude better.

I was thinking of getting one and did wonder if this was the case.

I have a Sevylor Tahiti Plus inflatable http://www.amazon.co.uk/sports-leisure/dp/B004I9YX8E and it has its pro's and cons. Of course it's not as good through the water as a rigid kayak because it's an inflatable. The massive advantage is that it fits neatly under the front deck of my boat and can be picked up and stuck in the boot of my Ford Fiesta. The one I have is a 2+1 (2 adults, 1 child) and it works great with two adults only, leaving space of luggage and leg-stretching. It doesn't really like having just one person in it though, doesn't sit well in the water then.

 

I use it for exactly what the OP suggests, exploring those places which other craft cannot reach and it's a winner for me.

 

One final point, get a skeg for it. It makes a world of difference.

That is why I was thinking of getting one, a canoe is no good if you are up above Bedford on the boat and the canoe is in the garage at home

[Barry]

Just last week I passed a woman paddling a red open canoe on the Upper Peak Forest canal. She looked very tanned and the boat was sheeted over as though she was covering a fair amount of kit and keeping it dry from splashes as she changed sides with her single paddle. It looked as though she had been out for a long time. During a brief conversation she said that she sleeps in the canoe.

 

Bit of a minimalist existence but obviously it can be done.

 

 

Would it be worth having a look at Song Of The Paddle Canadian canoe forum. They should be able to advise you as to the types of canoe available and I know they regularly have canoes for sale in their ads section

[Wanted]

Song of the paddle is a great forum. I bought a Sterns backwater, if you go for this model then make sure it is one made in France, the other ones made, I think in Japan leak apparently. There's a section on that forum all about inflatables.

 

As much as I like the one I got, it is a pig to paddle and keep straight, not really comparable with a ridged. Whilst they are in theory portable the still weigh a bit and never seem to want to go back in the bag, plus you have to dry it before packing it away.

 

When I have the funds I intend to get a ridged with a transom rig and a little British segul engine.

 

Which reminds me, my mate roger put a clip on you tube of his overpowered canoe....

 

http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=MexqgElIspA

[Neil2]

I applaud the spirit of adventure but I think I read somewhere that 95% of the rivers (and lakes?) in England are not accessible to the public. You need to come up to Scotland where it is 100%. I regularly see canoeists on our local river with their camping gear and feel a little envious of the sense of freedom it implies but I get the impression it's very frustrating in England.

[Jerra]

I applaud the spirit of adventure but I think I read somewhere that 95% of the rivers (and lakes?) in England are not accessible to the public. You need to come up to Scotland where it is 100%. I regularly see canoeists on our local river with their camping gear and feel a little envious of the sense of freedom it implies but I get the impression it's very frustrating in England.

I can speak about rivers that are navigations but in England (for rivers that aren't navigation) you should have the permission of the riperian rights owner. I would also suggest you keep well clear of fly fishermen they get very stroppy and can cast very intimidatingly. I know various Lakes in the Lake District limit the number/type of boats allowed e.g. Wastwater 15 rowing boats IIRC but I am unaware of any saying no canoes.

[magpie patrick]

Thanks all for the ideas. I've also had a PM congratulating me on a remarkable comeback from the trials and tribs of last winter so a really big thanks for that!

 

For clarity, the intended use is mainly navigations and ex-navigations which are either not worth the hassle of trailing Juno to or not passable by Juno, so the lack of a right to paddle won't (often) come into it. Professionally I do some of the legal stuff on canoeing and am aware of rivers (for example the Gipping) where there is no formal right or agreement but canoeing is widely accepted: one one river (I'm keeping schtum about which one) canoeing is sufficiently well established that there are bylaws controlling it despite the fact there is no legal provision for it!

 

I fancy the porta-bote but it is expensive and I suspect that rowing long distances may be harder than paddling a canoe: that said it has an outboard option which opens up some possibilities but is totally unsuited for some others. I hear what is said regarding inflatable canoes and I suspect I'll leave that decision until the moment I buy one, at which point I'll have to make my mind up.

 

Thanks Barry for the other forum, bizarrely, I often look at it for professional information but never thought to use it!

 

Right, back to day dreams of reaching Giant Grave or Aberbechan, Bungay or Brandon

[Greedyheron]

Just in case you come back to this, I have an inflatable canoe- as others have said they can be awkward as they are so light, a skeg helps somewhat. I find it easier to row in my dingy - with the added advantage that it has more space in it for stuff or a nice lay down, but it is to heavyfor me to lift on my own. Even better in my view is an inflatable paddle board- very light, very manouverable, very good for you and much easier to paddle than they look. Also much easier to lift out of the water e.g. If walking round a lock/ wanting to stop and keep the board secure. May be worth a try?

[JV44]

I have a 12` portabote and a great bit of kit they are but to be fair you need a fair amount of space in the car to transport by the time you have put the outboard ,thwart seats,transom and clamp on swivel seats for comfort ,Use a 6hp Suzuki 4# and she will pop along around 18mph...don`t sound fast but proper planes well before that speed...also run a little 2.5 hp suzy for easier lift on/off and that pushes her along fine with the benefit of only weighing 13kg .

They row reasonably well but hull flex does take some of the power from each stroke ,had the little 8` version as well which would suit your needs better by the sound of it lighter to lift on /off the roof rack .

We use a couple of the sit on top type kayaks tarpon 120 and 100/superbly stable and track well through the water even if a novice paddlerand a suprising amount of storage area for pick nik box etc .

Tried a few inflatable kayaks that mates had and hard work to paddle don`t come close...great iof you wan`t a workout I spose .

main benefit of the portabote is obviously storage and no trailor to get nicked whilst you are out enjoying the river ,good luck whatever you end up with Steve

[JayDub]

Just last week I passed a woman paddling a red open canoe on the Upper Peak Forest canal. She looked very tanned and the boat was sheeted over as though she was covering a fair amount of kit and keeping it dry from splashes as she changed sides with her single paddle. It looked as though she had been out for a long time. During a brief conversation she said that she sleeps in the canoe.

 

Bit of a minimalist existence but obviously it can be done.

Wonder if this is the lady I met and helped down the Atherstone flight a few weeks ago, she was paddling her way to Wales. She plans to live in the canoe until next spring, when I asked about winter she said it was no problem and she had overwintered in Scandanavia in a canoe before, all it needs is good insulation. Incredible.

[Barry]

Wonder if this is the lady I met and helped down the Atherstone flight a few weeks ago, she was paddling her way to Wales. She plans to live in the canoe until next spring, when I asked about winter she said it was no problem and she had overwintered in Scandanavia in a canoe before, all it needs is good insulation. Incredible.

 

Possibly South African accent?

[JayDub]

 

Possibly South African accent?

That's her, amazing lady. She canoes and kayaks all over the world. And I thought I had downsized to live on a narrowboat.

[Barry]

That's her, amazing lady. She canoes and kayaks all over the world. And I thought I had downsized to live on a narrowboat.

 

 

I wondered how far she might have travelled. Had a feeling it might have been a good long way.

 

She's completely cracked the problem of single handing swing and lift bridges of course

Edited July 31, 2013 by Bazza2

[ditchcrawler]

Wonder if this is the lady I met and helped down the Atherstone flight a few weeks ago, she was paddling her way to Wales. She plans to live in the canoe until next spring, when I asked about winter she said it was no problem and she had overwintered in Scandanavia in a canoe before, all it needs is good insulation. Incredible.

See this blog http://jannock.blogspot.co.uk/2013/07/july-holidayday-5-bye-bye-llangollen.html

[JayDub]

 

 

I wondered how far she might have travelled. Had a feeling it might have been a good long way.

 

She's completely cracked the problem of single handing swing and lift bridges of course

I think locks are the only thing that causes her any issue. She had left somewhere near London in mid June, and yes she knows what she in doing. She's paddled her way along the major rivers in Europe, dodging the large shipping on the Rhine, Danube and the like. Just proves what you can do if you are determined.

[tree]

Regarding inflatable kayaks v rigid ones .. I think that on the canal my inflatable one will be fine, but I would not use it on a river. One of the moorers here let me borrow his rigid kayak a few weeks ago and I went off for a 2 hour break on the River Nene and it was easy peasy until I had to go against the current ( going to the gym 6 nights a week before I moved here.. I can handle almost anything lol) ...... but Phew!! it was hard going coming back, adn I am glad that I was in a Rigid kayak adn not my inflatable one.

 

The good thing about inflatable kayaks/ canoes is easy storage especially on a boat, ok! you do have to inflate and deflate and let them dry out, but then can store them easily, with a rigid one only place it can go is on the boat /car roof.. so its all about weighing up the options and what suits you best personally and where you want to go sighseeing. Good Luck in your choice and most of all have a lot of fun... its so relaxing and peaceful

[ditchcrawler]

I took the Grandkids out in a Canadian canoe today on the Waveney. I struggled to paddle into the wind, kept blowing the bows round. I hate to think what would happened in an inflatable.

[magpie patrick]

Thanks again all, especially Greedyheron, for more practical thoughts.

 

As Brian and Dave P have alluded to, the end result will be a compromise. An inflatable canoe is probably less suited but likely to get used more, therefore which way do I leap? There also comes a point at which a navigation is a bit much for a canoe but still not on for Juno, at which point an outboard dinghy might be the answer, there is one of those in Dad's garage and I've promised Tas a chance to play at resurrecting the old Seebee engine, which worked fine last time I used it but that was 20 years ago.

 

Keep your thoughts coming please!