2 near misses today

[mark99]

Try to get air into the tea to get a better taste

[Guest]

 

Well yes, but it's not a fair comparison, cheap cr*p loose tea with decent teabags.

 

We used to drink Twinings English Breakfast until it became too expensive, now our tea of choice is Yorkshire Gold, in both cases loose tea unless (a) we couldn't find loose, or (b ) it was for camping/boating etc. I can assure you that the bag version of both teas, while making a pleasant enough drink does give a different and inferior drink compared to the loose tea version - even when made in a pot.

 

Tim

 

Do you drink it with your little finger elevated like all the posh people do??

[Timleech]

Try to get air into the tea to get a better taste

 

It's been suggested that teabags don't need fully boiling water, but with leaves I always make sure the water really has boiled immediately before, and pour it into the pot from a height. I believe that really does make a difference

 

Tim

 

Do you drink it with your little finger elevated like all the posh people do??

 

From a dainty china cup & saucer, of course

 

NO. Usually a 'working' mug, I'm just going to make some now.

 

Tim

[mayalld]

 

 

 

No, I still don't get it. Assuming a "normal" lock, the boaters in question will already know where they want to sit in the lock, though I would suggest the choice is generally limited to "at the front" or "near the back". They do what they have always done with their boat, there is no decision or command to be made/given. As an observer, its obvious where the boat is intending to end up. For example, if its travelling forward most of the way towards the front cill going up, now would be a bad time to whack up the paddles. If the driver is just about to go down the weed hatch, that is obvious although it would perhaps be prudent for him to announce his intentions. Ropes, well I groan inwardly but of course if there is rope throwing going on, you have to let them do it.

 

So to re-iterate, I don't just march up and throw the paddles up, I look for the body language and what the boat is doing. If they look of a nervous disposition I will even ask how they like their paddles up or, if they look really afraid I will just let them get on with it. But I don't normally feel the need to ask if I may help before, for example, standing next to a paddle. Or at least, that's how it used to be but as I mentioned, increasingly it seems that he who thinks "its my lock" has to be begged to be allowed to help or in reality, just left to get on with it. That is a shame.

 

On the subject of accidents, each one I'm sure has a unique set of circumstances that conspire to cause a disaster, but I see no evidence that prior micromanaging is helpful in reducing the liklihood. In fact he who is micromanaging is broadcasting to everyone else that only he can decide what is to be done, which is all very well until he makes a mistake or doesn't notice a problem and then no-one likes to say anything for a while due to his dominance. Been through that concept in aviation so long ago that its ancient history.

 

All this body language, all so fallible, and oh so easy to avoid an issue by actually talking to somebody, instead of arrogantly proclaiming your ability to tell from the body language what needs to be done.

 

As an observer, its obvious where the boat is intending to end up - No it isn't. Bev usually drives and I operate the locks. When Bev is doing a lock, I will usually help her. That will involve me slowing down slightly early, and leaving the boat moving VERY slowly whilst I get off to close a gate. We know what is happening, you don't, because it is an unfamiliar action to you.

 

If the driver is just about to go down the weed hatch, that is obvious although it would perhaps be prudent for him to announce his intentions - How would it be obvious? Am I supposed to make sure I get the boards up in good time so that you can tell? Can't I lift the boards when I decide it is safe? No, because by then you have drawn a paddle. Given that you don't seem to feel that you need to talk to people to announce your intention to interfere, why on earth do you think it incumbent on somebody who never asked you to involve yourself to explain themselves?

 

Ropes, well I groan inwardly but of course if there is rope throwing going on, you have to let them do it. - Who said anything about rope throwing? Many single handers going up a lock will come up the ladder with the rope once the boat has stopped. Oh no, you've already drawn a paddle. And you aren't "letting" them do it, because it is none of your business.

 

If they look of a nervous disposition I will even ask - Well, I'm not of a nervous disposition, so why am I not entitled to be asked?

 

I see no evidence that prior micromanaging is helpful - clearly your word of the day. A boats crew operating the lock themselves, without outside interference, as they wish to operate it is NOT micromanagement (no matter how many times you claim that it is). As a crew, we work together knowing from experience who will do what and when. There is no need for anybody to micromanage anybody else. Indeed there is no need for anybody to manage anybody else in any way whatsoever, saving the need for somebody to take charge if there is an issue. The very instant that you get an outsider who isn't familiar with what you do involved you create a situation that needs to be managed. All the assumptions that we can make in our normal working go out of the window, because we have to account for somebody who has shown himself to be utterly impervious to the idea that he has no right to involve himself (and is presumably similarly resistant to being micromanaged and doing things as the crew want them done)

 

You think that everybody should accept your help, and bemoan the fact that they don't. Accept that they have a right to do that if they want to. Accept that you should determine whether people want your help, rather than assuming that they do. Accept that they have their reasons, and that no matter how much you think their reasons don't make sense, they are allowed to make those decisions, and that no matter how brilliant you are, your views are not paramount.

[nicknorman]

Well yes, but it's not a fair comparison, cheap cr*p loose tea with decent teabags.

 

We used to drink Twinings English Breakfast until it became too expensive, now our tea of choice is Yorkshire Gold, in both cases loose tea unless (a) we couldn't find loose, or (b ) it was for camping/boating etc. I can assure you that the bag version of both teas, while making a pleasant enough drink does give a different and inferior drink compared to the loose tea version - even when made in a pot.

 

Tim

 

I can always taste the paper, and the bleach that was used to whiten the paper.

All this body language, all so fallible, and oh so easy to avoid an issue by actually talking to somebody, instead of arrogantly proclaiming your ability to tell from the body language what needs to be done. If you knew anything about communication, you would know that body language is a pretty robust and reliable means of communication. Of course the written word is the worst as can often be seen on this forum, the spoken word is better but can suffer from mis-hearing especially at a distance and/or in a noisy or stressful environment, whereas body language is robust and of course was invented long before spoken language was. But then you don't know anything about communication it seems.

 

As an observer, its obvious where the boat is intending to end up - No it isn't. Bev usually drives and I operate the locks. When Bev is doing a lock, I will usually help her. That will involve me slowing down slightly early, and leaving the boat moving VERY slowly whilst I get off to close a gate. We know what is happening, you don't, because it is an unfamiliar action to you. No, it would be quite obvious what you were doing

 

If the driver is just about to go down the weed hatch, that is obvious although it would perhaps be prudent for him to announce his intentions - How would it be obvious? Am I supposed to make sure I get the boards up in good time so that you can tell? Can't I lift the boards when I decide it is safe? No, because by then you have drawn a paddle. Given that you don't seem to feel that you need to talk to people to announce your intention to interfere, why on earth do you think it incumbent on somebody who never asked you to involve yourself to explain themselves? It would be obvious because he would be doing stuff, such as removing clothing, taking up boards, stopping the engine. On the other hand, if he was just standing patiently at the tiller looking ahead, he won't be just about to dive under the back

 

Ropes, well I groan inwardly but of course if there is rope throwing going on, you have to let them do it. - Who said anything about rope throwing? Many single handers going up a lock will come up the ladder with the rope once the boat has stopped. Oh no, you've already drawn a paddle. And you aren't "letting" them do it, because it is none of your business. Why would I draw a paddle when no-one was on the back and said missing person was climbing a ladder. I don't need to be told by a control freak that it would be a bad idea.

 

If they look of a nervous disposition I will even ask - Well, I'm not of a nervous disposition, so why am I not entitled to be asked? Well something underlies your paranoia, I wonder what it is?

 

I see no evidence that prior micromanaging is helpful - clearly your word of the day. A boats crew operating the lock themselves, without outside interference, as they wish to operate it is NOT micromanagement (no matter how many times you claim that it is). As a crew, we work together knowing from experience who will do what and when. There is no need for anybody to micromanage anybody else. Indeed there is no need for anybody to manage anybody else in any way whatsoever, saving the need for somebody to take charge if there is an issue. The very instant that you get an outsider who isn't familiar with what you do involved you create a situation that needs to be managed. All the assumptions that we can make in our normal working go out of the window, because we have to account for somebody who has shown himself to be utterly impervious to the idea that he has no right to involve himself (and is presumably similarly resistant to being micromanaged and doing things as the crew want them done). You do make living, without being the sole occupants of the planet, sound so hard. Perhaps you should erect a barbed wire fence around each lock prior to operating it?

 

You think that everybody should accept your help, and bemoan the fact that they don't. Accept that they have a right to do that if they want to. Accept that you should determine whether people want your help, rather than assuming that they do. Accept that they have their reasons, and that no matter how much you think their reasons don't make sense, they are allowed to make those decisions, and that no matter how brilliant you are, your views are not paramount. Not quite, I think people who are too nervous or paranoid to be able to go boating in the real world where other people exist, are unfortunate. Its their right to be so, but as I said right at the start, its a behaviour pattern that is a shame.

Edited July 17, 2013 by nicknorman

[system 4-50]

Many's the time people have marched up to me and flung a tea bag into my pot without asking me first. For G*d's sake, its my teapot and I'll manage it myself, or ask nicely if I need too. The number of times I've been drenched by the teabag flying along inside the teapot and spraying tea out of the spout, this is a dangerous practice - it is boiling water, after all.

[mayalld]

OK Nick,

 

have it your way as to just how superior you are and how you are so adept at communication that you don't even need to speak to people and that your lock operating skills are so superb that anything you do will fit in with what the crew is doing, and probably be better than what they would have done.

 

Clearly you can determine whether your help is welcome more easily by reading body language than the dreadfully imprecise "would you like a hand with the lock?"

 

On the off chance that we encounter you on a day when your body language reading skills are below there normal superhuman levels, could you just commit my image to memory, along with the fact that;

 

We do not want you to help us - ever.

[nb Innisfree]

I once copped a hot teabag in the eye, caused me to get caught on the cill.

 

Be careful out there

[nicknorman]

Many's the time people have marched up to me and flung a tea bag into my pot without asking me first. For G*d's sake, its my teapot and I'll manage it myself, or ask nicely if I need too. The number of times I've been drenched by the teabag flying along inside the teapot and spraying tea out of the spout, this is a dangerous practice - it is boiling water, after all.

HaHa, greenie for you!

 

We do not want you to help us - ever.

 

Yes, I think I got that, and I don't feel bad about it because I know you don't want anyone else's help either, in fact I am sure you would be delighted if all other canal users died from a plague, then you would have the system all to yourself and could play with your "trainset" just how you wanted!

 

ps Were you an only child / bad at sharing toys as a kiddy?

[DeanS]

I drink coffee.

[pquinn]

nick,correct me if i am wrong but could what you describe as "helping" possibly be a case of "hurrying" because people are not going fast enough for you?possibly due to inexperience,nervousness or just plain chilled out.

[GUMPY]

Nick if you ever come past lock 59 on the GU going uphill please call me to come and operate the lock for you. Only stipulation is only your boat in the lock.

I promise you a lock you will never forget

[nicknorman]

nick,correct me if i am wrong but could what you describe as "helping" possibly be a case of "hurrying" because people are not going fast enough for you?possibly due to inexperience,nervousness or just plain chilled out.

No. Its not about hurrying, its just about being efficient - I even hesitate to use the word "expeditious" because that can imply hurrying to some. But personally if something has to be done such as passing through a lock, for which as we have agreed there are a number of minute differences in the way it could be done, I see no point in doing it in a way that creates more work and takes longer, when an easier and quicker way exists (safely, of course). But mainly its just about community spirit. I feel guilty standing about watching others working, maybe struggling with paddles when I could do it easily. Its just about wanting to participate and help. That is how it always used to be, but as I said at the beginning, these days that attitude is fading fast and its sad.

 

I have to admit that Jeff often runs between locks, and back and forth on close flights for example to prepare the next lock and then come back to close the gates, but its not because we are in a hurry, its because he likes running and spends a lot of time when we are on the boat going for long runs on the towpath (he is a marathon runner). If its my turn to lock, I sometimes feel guilty and attempt to run a bit but it turns out to be more of a waddle!

 

We always explain to anyone who might feel that we are rushing, that its not the case, merely that Jeff likes running!

[luctor et emergo]

Nick, how often do you go up a wide lock, with a single narrow boat?

[nicknorman]

Nick if you ever come past lock 59 on the GU going uphill please call me to come and operate the lock for you. Only stipulation is only your boat in the lock.

I promise you a lock you will never forget

I'd love to, but that would entail getting rather close to the SE of England - bandit country!

 

But I don't really get your point, assuming the lock is a deep or wild one (because I don't know where lock 59 is). I have never suggested that all paddles must be raised instantly regardles of the lock, in fact I seem to recall specifically mentioning the Hatton type locks with only 1 boat in, where its necessary only to open the boat-side lock to start with, otherwise the boat hurtles to the opposite side and crashes into the wall.

Nick, how often do you go up a wide lock, with a single narrow boat?

Usually only once, unless we turn round and go back down again, then up again, which seems a little pointless?

[Victor Vectis]

I drink coffee.

Some people just have to be different!

 

 

OK team, try this one:

 

Craft (ie good) keg or poor cask beer.

And yes, both exist

[Chris Pink]

OK.

 

We are all adults here (?) so it has to be asked.

 

Leaves or bags.

 

(Well it makes a change from PO v cassette)

 

 

I do realise that I'm going to have the traditionalists on me like a tonne of bricks (see what I did there?) . So, if you want greenies, start wading in now.

 

I use a Yorkshire Tea bag in a mug that holds just under a pint (a pint is too big) Yorkshire hard water tea bags for preference. I will also accept any reputable African tea - which is what's in Yorkshire Tea. A pint mug is needed because one tea bag makes two small mugs.

 

I'm with the purists here the water must be fresh drawn and must be boiling at the point when it hits the tea bag - it is a measure of how much i respect or love my guests whether I do their tea first or mine.

 

I then mash it hard. Good and hard, finishing with a good squeeze so the tea bag comes out dry. Then I add milk, sugar to taste and stir.

 

I never ever leave the tea bag in the cup to brew, that just makes scummy tea.

 

For second best I'll accept a cup of Darjeeling (first flush) or Ceylon brewed pekoe in a pot for three and a half minutes but it's not in the same league as a Yorkshire mash. in this case i insist on milk in first.

 

Incidentally there's only one company in the country that makes mugs the right size, though I do have medium and small for guests.

 

 

 

Edited for geographical stupidity.

Edited July 17, 2013 by Chris Pink

[Chris Pink]

Nick if you ever come past lock 59 on the GU going uphill please call me to come and operate the lock for you. Only stipulation is only your boat in the lock.

I promise you a lock you will never forget

 

I would happily take you up on that offer because in a wide lock on the boat with people on the bank (whoever, I'm not fussy) I always have the front rope up and around a bollard and back under my t-stud. You can put the water in as fast as you like. If you decided to open the paddles while I was walking along the top planks (has never happened, that's never for the hard of reading) then I would consider you to be a malicious chatte and deal accordingly.

 

I am completely with Nick here. It's not rocket science to know when the steerer is ready for the paddles to be opened.

 

For your Lock 59, I'll raise you any of the early Kennet locks with gate paddles.

[pquinn]

No. Its not about hurrying, its just about being efficient - I even hesitate to use the word "expeditious" because that can imply hurrying to some. But personally if something has to be done such as passing through a lock, for which as we have agreed there are a number of minute differences in the way it could be done, I see no point in doing it in a way that creates more work and takes longer, when an easier and quicker way exists (safely, of course). But mainly its just about community spirit. I feel guilty standing about watching others working, maybe struggling with paddles when I could do it easily. Its just about wanting to participate and help. That is how it always used to be, but as I said at the beginning, these days that attitude is fading fast and its sad.

 

I have to admit that Jeff often runs between locks, and back and forth on close flights for example to prepare the next lock and then come back to close the gates, but its not because we are in a hurry, its because he likes running and spends a lot of time when we are on the boat going for long runs on the towpath (he is a marathon runner). If its my turn to lock, I sometimes feel guilty and attempt to run a bit but it turns out to be more of a waddle!

 

We always explain to anyone who might feel that we are rushing, that its not the case, merely that Jeff likes running!

thats fair enough.

[GUMPY]

who mentioned ropes?

 

Ill raise you a deep river Wey lock

[DeanS]

So did we win?

[billS]

No one won. It just became teapots and kettles competing about who was the biggest mug as far as I could see

[mark99]

It's easy to win - the skills needed are pure bloodymindedness and lots of time to keep on going and on and on posting until the others publicly give up.

 

Ultimately it's like 20-20 - a bit of instant gratification but upon analysis an empty spectacle.

[mayalld]

HaHa, greenie for you!

 

Yes, I think I got that, and I don't feel bad about it because I know you don't want anyone else's help either, in fact I am sure you would be delighted if all other canal users died from a plague, then you would have the system all to yourself and could play with your "trainset" just how you wanted!

 

ps Were you an only child / bad at sharing toys as a kiddy?

I will ignore the last comment as just more of the invective that you fling at people for daring to question you superiority.

 

You are to a certain extent correct that I don't particularly want anybody to help because I'm out cruising because I want to work my own locks, because I enjoy doing so efficiently and frankly most supposed help makes the operation less efficient.

 

However that isn't to say that we will never accept help. It is just that help will only be accepted from somebody whose prior actions make me feel that they might work with us rather than in their own way. Engaging in conversation, even meaningless pleasantries about the weather, is as good start. Saying nothing and giving the impression that you are going to just start interfering (body language you see!) is not.

 

You have convinced me that you wouldn't work well with us.

 

I will also offer to help others. In general I will offer to help with things other than drawing paddles, because I know that it is far less likely that another boater will fear that I will get it wrong (I know what I'm doing, but a boater I met 10 seconds ago doesn't). If my offer is declined, I will still stay and chat, often about the fact that I too am wary of accepting help.

 

One final thought to offer;

 

You bemoan the fact that boaters are less willing to accept help than in the past, then leap to the conclusion that this is due to an increasing insularity of the people declining the help. Never once do you consider that in the past the steerer when faced with a helper would have a far greater confidence that the putative helper would do nothing silly.

 

It isn't a change in attitude that is behind it. It is a change in what is being offered.

[tillergirl]

Well to both Bazza and Dave, all I can say is that for some reason we don't encounter these people. Why is that?

 

And as to the hysteria about when and how much to open paddles, in general its our practice to open the paddles as quickly as possible straight away once the gates are closed. Certainly when going downhill and usually when going uphill unless the lock design has an unusually strong forward pull (some on the T&M and some other deep ones), or Hatton type locks where you really need to open same-side paddle first if going up alone. Gate paddles can normally be opened straight away because we keep the boat well back and in general they all have a plate over them which stops the flow of water coming straight into the lock. There are a few variations in some specific locks but in general, perhaps its because we know how to operate our boat expeditiously, are not frightened of locks nor a bit of bumping against the sides, that we are not phased by people helping without having to ask for the minutia of exactly how many clicks per minute the paddle can be opened without scaring the steerer.

 

Those who timidly open paddles one click at a time in general do so because they don't really know what they are doing.

 

My god, you mean they actually put their windlasses on the paddle spindles without begging permission? OUTRAGEOUS.

 

Or to put it another way, what a miserable control freak you are! I bet your misses has to ask permission before turning on the taps to run your bath!

 

We were helped through a lock by a CRT employee today....................however first he stood at the bottom gate paddle windlass behind his back, asked if he could help and how we wished to work through the lock. It is in his contract of employment to do it this way and in any case case he said its polite to ask.