Steel, Iron or Lead Ballast Required - North West Herts

[alan_fincher]

I need somewhere between 1 ton minimum, and possibly up to 2 tons of metal ballast.

 

Something like railway line in lengths no greater than 3 feet, (because we need to be able to move it), or old lift counter-balance weights.

 

Needed in NorthWest Herts, ideally delivered.

 

I've no idea how you go about finding, or even who to approach.

 

Any ideas, please?

[GUMPY]

There is a scrap yard in wiggington on the chesham road that used to carry stuff like that.

I got some boiler steel from them for the same reason.

Mind you it was a while ago.

if not you have the room for engineering bricks, seconds from baggeridge brick in dudley are the cheapest, delivery cost more than the bricks when I got mine.

[alan_fincher]

Thanks,

 

As it is "Sickle" I clearly have room for engineering brick, but would strongly prefer to use something highly dense, to get it as low as possible.

 

The boat is a real roller at the moment, and I'd like to lower the centre of gravity as much as possible, to see if it helps, even if it is only slightly.

 

Also if I do need to move it to gain access to the bottom of the boat, I'd prefer it not to be a brick at a time. (I could get a hod, I suppose!)

 

I'll investigate the Wiggington idea - thanks.

[churchward]

There is a chap who advertises in the canal magazines like canal boat trading under Mann Buck Steels Ltd.

 

email mannbuckandco(at)aol.com Tel 0-1-2-7-7 3-6-4-3-4-4

 

Otherwise I guess a local scrap merchant or recycling centre may be able to help.

[alan_fincher]

There is a chap who advertises in the canal magazines like canal boat trading under Mann Buck Steels Ltd.

 

email mannbuckandco(at)aol.com Tel 0-1-2-7-7 3-6-4-3-4-4

 

Otherwise I guess a local scrap merchant or recycling centre may be able to help.

Thanks, I remember seeing thatin the past, thinking about it.

 

I don't suppose railway preservation centres will ever sell scrap to a private individual in these sort of quantities, will they?

 

I'm not far from either Quainton or Leighton Buzzard. Obviously railway line is only any good to me if pre cut up - I certainly can't do that myself! Chairs or fishplates would be OK, I think.....

[stagedamager]

There was a place in notts which would chop down rail line into manageable lengths and deliver for a small fee. I'll see if I can find the information.

Dan

[Mike Tee]

Metal is best, but have you considered old paving slabs?

I know this is too far, but a good indication of weight and cost ebay 111071955061

This would give you 1.7 tons in 88 unit pieces i.e. easy to move around at 20 kg each

 

eta - all for £160

Edited May 31, 2013 by Mike Tee

[Strads]

After the rock and roll at Ricky, she could do with some ballast to lessen the top heavy wobble, but would spoil the dancing fun in the tug of war.

 

thanks we enjoyed the afternoon,

 

We used bricks,,, plus side was we unloaded what we didn't need and a local odd job builder took them away @ 2 pallets worth..

 

paving slabs also a sensible alternative,,,, and a free patio if it dosnt work,,

 

see you soon

[David Mack]

Mann Buck supplied the extra steel ballast we put under the floor in Fulbourne. It was supplied cut to the sizes we requested and was delivered to the mooring. Pictures of the painting and installation of the ballast here and here. Note that the ballast was installed so as to sit on the flange of the knee irons, clear of the bottom plate, to allow any bilge water to flow beneath and reduce any rusting.

 

Steel is 4-5 times the density of concrete, so for a given weight paving slabs will take up 4-5 times the space of steel.

[MtB]

The boat is a real roller at the moment, and I'd like to lower the centre of gravity as much as possible, to see if it helps, even if it is only slightly.

 

I think it will help a LOT.

 

I think this because I raised the centre of gravity of ALDEBARAN only the tiny bit by removing the BD3 and fitting the K1, and this resulted in a significant decrease in the stability of the boat.

 

I immediately noticed an increase in rolling when I first stepped aboard with the K1 lump in place, and visitors who don't even know the boat very well also comment unprompted, that the boat feels more 'rocky' than it used to.

 

I estimate the K1 weighs about 1.25 tons, twice that of the BD3 and the C of G of the K1 is about 18" higher in the boat than the C of G of the BD3 was.

 

I therefore think adding a ton of steel to the bilge of SICKLE will result in a greater improvement than our reduction, as your extra ton will result in a bigger lowering of C of G of the whole boat, as SICKLE is shorter and probably lighter than ALDEBARAN.

 

MtB

 

P.S. ALDEBARAN weighs between 16 and 20 tons, depending on which crane you believe!

[Batavia]

Alan,

 

I have steel ballast in Batavia which I am in the process of trying to remove You are very welcome to have it, but.......

 

It comprises 4 engine flywheels and some stacks of "window cut-outs" welded together, which weigh about 200 kg each. Not very easy to move, but compact!

 

Chris G

[Tuscan]

Off topic a bit but this brings back memories of the old paving factory at Marsworth, we use to moor up at the BW yard and barrow accross the seconds of kerb stones and slabs until we had the desired level very cheap and practical.

[alan_fincher]

Alan,

 

I have steel ballast in Batavia which I am in the process of trying to remove You are very welcome to have it, but.......

 

It comprises 4 engine flywheels and some stacks of "window cut-outs" welded together, which weigh about 200 kg each. Not very easy to move, but compact!

 

Chris G

PM Sent Chris......

 

There is a chap who advertises in the canal magazines like canal boat trading under Mann Buck Steels Ltd.

 

email mannbuckandco(at)aol.com Tel 0-1-2-7-7 3-6-4-3-4-4

 

Otherwise I guess a local scrap merchant or recycling centre may be able to help.

Yes,

 

I've just called him, and he could help.

 

However it does seem very expensive, although perhaps I am just out of touch wit reality?

 

Does anybody please have the vaguest idea what it might be possible for "Joe Public" to purchase a ton of scrap iron or steel for?

 

(Mann Buck's stock is also in the West Midlands, so carriage would add significantly to any "per ton" price too....)

[churchward]

PM Sent Chris......

 

Yes,

 

I've just called him, and he could help.

 

However it does seem very expensive, although perhaps I am just out of touch wit reality?

 

Does anybody please have the vaguest idea what it might be possible for "Joe Public" to purchase a ton of scrap iron or steel for?

 

(Mann Buck's stock is also in the West Midlands, so carriage would add significantly to any "per ton" price too....)

From what I have seen quoted scrap price of steel is high just now and the weigh-in price is around £100-£120 per metric ton last time I looked. So I guess it would be around 25% on top of that plus VAT to buy?

[Ray]

We slapped a coat of red oxide on any steel that we used as ballast.

 

(standard gauge) railway fishplates are a convenient size and reasonably easy to move around. Unlike rail they're generally flat and easier to stack.

 

It might be worth asking Quainton where they get there requirements from although as their requirement is probably a bit on the small side - no offence meant - it may not be something they readily know an answer to.

 

Anything you're liable to get from the railway in Leighton is going to be quite light as they only use a lightweight rail so it would be a bit like using broken paving slabs.

[alan_fincher]

From what I have seen quoted scrap price of steel is high just now and the weigh-in price is around £100-£120 per metric ton last time I looked. So I guess it would be around 25% on top of that plus VAT to buy?

You might hope so, but the only numbers I have heard so far are about 400% of those scrap prices, rather than just a 25% mark up.

 

Seriously, if anybody knows anywhere vaguely in my area not charging a mint.

 

The aforementioned Wiggington based scrap firm though I would be unlikely to find what I need at any reasonable cost, and suggested I'm better off with paving slab or engineering brick!

[Mike Tee]

Might be worth a call but you'd have to hire a transit for a day, and they don't say how many fish plates they have.

 

http://www.gvlr.org.uk/sales/sales_index.html

[alan_fincher]

(standard gauge) railway fishplates are a convenient size and reasonably easy to move around. Unlike rail they're generally flat and easier to stack.

Yes, although I rather think that in preserved railway usage, they don't exactly "wear out" very fast, so, whereas I might expect these lines to have to dispose of rail, I'm not sure fishplates or chairs would come into it much.

 

Rail would be OK, as long as in "liftable" lengths. Mainline rail seems to be typically about 60Kg per metre, so ideally lengths more like half a metre would seem sensible. There are a few short lengths of bullhead rail in the hold already. That probably is more "stackable" than modern flat bottomed rail though, I'll admit.

[churchward]

You might hope so, but the only numbers I have heard so far are about 400% of those scrap prices, rather than just a 25% mark up.

 

Seriously, if anybody knows anywhere vaguely in my area not charging a mint.

 

The aforementioned Wiggington based scrap firm though I would be unlikely to find what I need at any reasonable cost, and suggested I'm better off with paving slab or engineering brick!

Ouch! that sounds expensive. I suppose it also depends on the quality of steel too. High grade steel is more that the £120 per metric ton some are near £200 per ton. But if you are being quoted £400 or so a ton that seems a lot to me.

[alan_fincher]

Ouch! that sounds expensive. I suppose it also depends on the quality of steel too. High grade steel is more that the £120 per metric ton some are near £200 per ton. But if you are being quoted £400 or so a ton that seems a lot to me.

Or more! And "plus VAT!

 

Which is why I'm asking!

 

Problem I guess is going to be the amount I want, where I want it, and a general lack of my own transport......

[RLWP]

Your own transport shouldn't be a problem, not many folk can get a ton of stuff in their car

 

Richard

[churchward]

Yes, although I rather think that in preserved railway usage, they don't exactly "wear out" very fast, so, whereas I might expect these lines to have to dispose of rail, I'm not sure fishplates or chairs would come into it much.

 

Rail would be OK, as long as in "liftable" lengths. Mainline rail seems to be typically about 60Kg per metre, so ideally lengths more like half a metre would seem sensible. There are a few short lengths of bullhead rail in the hold already. That probably is more "stackable" than modern flat bottomed rail though, I'll admit.

Modern main running line should be 60Kg per metre (or roughly 120lbs per yard) storage sidings and yards can be lighter rail but should be a minimum of 40Kg per metre.

 

Warn rail does end up a bit lighter but no by much for your purposes as it is warn down by the trains and more significantly reprofiled by grinding machines.

[RLWP]

Might be worth a call but you'd have to hire a transit for a day, and they don't say how many fish plates they have.

 

http://www.gvlr.org.uk/sales/sales_index.html

 

Don't forget that the 50lb or 60lb here refers to the rail weight, not the fishplate weight. Rail is often described in pounds per yard. These plates will be quite small

 

Richard

[alan_fincher]

Warn rail does end up a bit lighter but no by much for your purposes as it is warn down by the trains and more significantly reprofiled by grinding machines.

I wonder if the Great Central need to sell the bit that they very publicly recently dumped an Ivatt 2MT off of in a quite spectacular way!

[RLWP]

I wonder if the Great Central need to sell the bit that they very publicly recently dumped an Ivatt 2MT off of in a quite spectacular way!

 

I wouldn't think so, that bit of rail was working perfectly - it was designed to derail stock

 

Richard