Reinsuring my boat for market value

[IdealStandard]

Hey all

 

I took out an insurance policy with Towergate when I bought my boat a few months ago. They would only insure for the purchase price of the boat, which was fine at the time, but since then I have done a lot of work and am keen to reinsure so that my investment is insured as well as the purchase price.

 

Is it possible to re-negotiate based on a market valuation or something similar? Do other insurers base their policy value on anything other than initial purchase price?

 

I also might ask for a bit of a 'back of envelope' valuation from people on here to see if the value is that different to price I paid.

 

Any advice would be greatly appreciated.

[PaulJ]

Thats a hard one to answer as it depends on how much you paid for it in the first place. If you got boat say for a couple of thousand and spent some more doing it up to decent standard then I would say Yes, you should be able to. But, I would imagine insurance would want a professional evaluation from you.

If you paid over the top and then spent even more then you would have no chance.

[BargeeSpud]

Work out what you think it's worth or, as you say, get a valuation from a broker say & contact Towergate. Tell them that you want to re-insure the boat for that figure, how you came to that figure & if they won't play ball, say you'll take your business elsewhere.

 

I would be very surprised if they didn't re-insure you to the new valuation, I've found them to be reasonable in my dealings with them.

 

PaulJ makes a very valid point too, maybe that's why they're reluctant. They think it's possible that the boat is only worth so much & your valuation exceeds that.

Edited February 11, 2013 by Spuds

[IdealStandard]

I definitely didn't pay over the odds, and I think you're both right that in order to manage the situation properly I would need an independent professional valuation. I just don't want to rush into that without knowing it will be worthwhile.

 

I also don't plan to have it out of the water for a couple of years, would it be possible to get a valuation without a new hull inspection?

 

Just to note I haven't contacted my insurers, I was keen to hear if anyone had actually done this before and see what they had to say.

[bigcol]

yes you can!

you may have a boat gifted to you,or inherited a boat, or as you have had done, a lot of work on the boat. if the boat was bought as a project, and you have replaced the engine with new, totaly rebottemed the boat etc etc you are insuring the boat etc the list gos on.

same with a house really i suppose? or a car or bike

 

if this is the case you have to get a proper valuation report from a surveyer, this can be added on to a survey. and maybe a known broker, but certainly a credited valuer, you pay for a valuation, I was charged £120 for the one for my old boat.

 

I bought a hulk with a old engine paid just over £28,000, with all the works rebuilding labour, materials new engine,electrics plumbing c/heating list gos on amd on,keep all receites and paperwork,

 

the insurance company insured the boat for works etc,

and after the works was all completed, the valuation came through,

mind you a lot of money spent was a lot, but the valuation was accepted by insurance company,I have known a insurance company sending a valuer out of their own, of course you pay for it

 

it was later sold and did get my money back

buying a shell, it frightning just how much you can spend, also if you rely on outside tradesman labour is the most expensive part

 

 

Col

Edited February 11, 2013 by bigcol

[IdealStandard]

yes you can!

you may have a boat gifted to you,or inherited a boat, or as you have had done, a lot of work on the boat. if the coat was bought as a project, and you have replaced the engine with new, totaly rebottemed the boat etc etc you are insuring the boat rtc etc the list gos on.

 

if this is the case you have to get a proper valuation report from a surveyer, this can be added on to a survey. and maybe a known broker, but certainly a credited valuer, you pay for a valuation, I was charged £120 for the one for my old boat.

 

I bought a hulk with a old engine paid just over £28,000, with all the works rebuilding labour, materials new engine,electrics plumbing c/heating list gos on amd on,keep all receites and paperwork,

 

the insurance company insured the boat for works etc,

and after the works was all completed, the valuation came through, money spent was a lot, but the valuation was accepted by insurance company,

it was later sold and did get my money back

buying a shell, it frightning just how much you can spend, also if you rely on outside tradesman labour is the most expensive part

 

 

Col

Receipts are another tricky thing as much of the stuff came from reclamation yards, gumtree, ebay or other second hand sources. All labour time was my own. It's therefore difficult for me to prove the total cost to me. However I believe that I should be able to insure for a fair amount more than what I paid.

 

 

£120 sounds very reasonable. Was this partly because he was already doing the lions share of the necessary work anyway or is that quite standard?

Edited February 11, 2013 by IdealStandard

[furnessvale]

Hey all

 

I took out an insurance policy with Towergate when I bought my boat a few months ago. They would only insure for the purchase price of the boat, which was fine at the time, but since then I have done a lot of work and am keen to reinsure so that my investment is insured as well as the purchase price.

 

Is it possible to re-negotiate based on a market valuation or something similar? Do other insurers base their policy value on anything other than initial purchase price?

 

I also might ask for a bit of a 'back of envelope' valuation from people on here to see if the value is that different to price I paid.

 

Any advice would be greatly appreciated.

 

My experience of insurance in general is that the insurance company will let you insure for whatever value you say, quite happy to pocket the increased premium.

 

Only when you come to claim will they begin to look for reasons why you over, or indeed under, insured and adjust the payout accordingly.

 

George ex nb Alton retired

[IdealStandard]

It might be easier for you guys to judge if I write some specfics.

 

I purchased a 57'1990 Liverpool Boat Co. cruiser stern with a Barrus Shanks 35 engine new in 2009. It has a positive hull survey and after some extensive engine work the engine is in good stead and currently under a 1 yr repair warranty.

 

The interior was very tired and far from liveable. I removed nearly all of the internal 'stuff' although did not remove the T&G or redo the insulation which is polystyrene and rockwool. The interior fitout is relatively basic, but is liveable and comfortable. I could provide a spec list if it helps.

 

I paid £15k and think it is worth more like 20+ now that the interior is in working order.

 

Does that sound reasonable?

[Ray T]

Would it not be similar to buying a sail away shell?

 

Where the value of the finished boat will outweigh that of the said boat when purchased.

 

Just a thought?

[bigcol]

Whe i bought the boat (hulk) it had a recent survey done in holland,the bult was just a hulk with engine.

 

I then had is surveyed my self from a marine surveyer who understood dutch barges

this was used by me to be able to carry out works to the boat what was needed.

the insurance company GJW was happy with the surveyer (acredited etc

 

once boat was completed nearly 12 months later, the boat had to be insured and revalued prior to commision

 

the insurance company was happy with a new valuation from same surveyer,

the valuation consisted of a 6 page document with photos and mini survey

also i kept all receites and invoices it soon adds up(never do it again!)

warrentees,instructions even goods from ebay you get a invoice from ebay

keep every thing,from electrics bow thruster engine keep tanks everything

in the end We had a file box thet was so packed it wouldnt close.

 

When i came to sell the boat it was good for the broker,their surveyer etc

and they got the boat insured for what the boat was up for sale for, not what they finaly paid for it, which was very near the valuation anyway.

brokers will put up for sale what you or they think it will sell for

in reality its market forces that a good valuer will understand that will determin the value

 

One piece of advice, never under insure, equally never over insure

back everything up with reports, invoices etc

 

excuse puntuation and spelling, im curently on strong medication

 

good luck

 

col

 

Would it not be similar to buying a sail away shell?

 

Where the value of the finished boat will outweigh that of the said boat when purchased.

 

Just a thought?

 

exactly right!!!

 

basically Rays said, what I took ages to say in one sentence lol

 

Thanks Ray

 

col

[IdealStandard]

 

One piece of advice, never under insure, equally never over insure

back everything up with reports, invoices etc

 

 

 

 

That's very good advice. I suppose what I am relying on is that if I were to sell it, I would be relying on market forces, location etc. I should be basing the insurance amount on what I can back up with hard evidence. I think this is pretty sound and as mentioned above, there's no point in paying high premiums on a value which wouldn't be paid out on.

[bigcol]

My experience of insurance in general is that the insurance company will let you insure for whatever value you say, quite happy to pocket the increased premium.

 

Only when you come to claim will they begin to look for reasons why you over, or indeed under, insured and adjust the payout accordingly.

 

George ex nb Alton retired

 

So so true you can insure a boat for as much as you want, they always be happy because your paying premiums per £1000 covered.

 

which is why you need to make sure that you keep all information that will substantiate your valuation and claim.

 

Col

 

So so true you can insure a boat for as much as you want, they always be happy because your paying premiums per £1000 covered.

 

which is why you need to make sure that you keep all information that will substantiate your valuation and claim.

 

all the best

 

Col

Edited February 11, 2013 by bigcol

[Grace and Favour]

Yes you can . . . . . We bought our boat for an extremely good price.

 

We insure it for what the boat-builder's 'list ' price - which is considerably higher

[ditchcrawler]

When I bought Harnser I insured it while I was fitting it out. When finished I decided to insure with GJW and they requested a survey of the fit out. I estimated the boat had cost me £50K in total and the surveyer valued it at £80K which I insured it for.

[bigcol]

When I bought Harnser I insured it while I was fitting it out. When finished I decided to insure with GJW and they requested a survey of the fit out. I estimated the boat had cost me £50K in total and the surveyer valued it at £80K which I insured it for.

 

GJW are really good company to deal with 100%

 

col

[David Mack]

A while back, our insurance valuation had not been updated for some time. I spoke to the insurers about it who said they would be happy to apply an inflation increase on renewal each year, but as we hadn't asked for one in past years they couldn't add it retrospectively. As the BSS was due we asked the surveyor to give us a valuation at the same time. I can't remember how much extra he charged, but it wasn't a lot. He gave us a separate valuation report which we passed on to the insurers, who were happy to renew the insurance for the new valuation.

[Keeping Up]

Have you tried phoning Towergate and asking them?

 

They were very helpful when I wanted to reduce the insured value of my boat - but that of course is rather different.

[Richard10002]

Hey all

 

I took out an insurance policy with Towergate when I bought my boat a few months ago. They would only insure for the purchase price of the boat, which was fine at the time, but since then I have done a lot of work and am keen to reinsure so that my investment is insured as well as the purchase price.

 

Is it possible to re-negotiate based on a market valuation or something similar? Do other insurers base their policy value on anything other than initial purchase price?

 

I also might ask for a bit of a 'back of envelope' valuation from people on here to see if the value is that different to price I paid.

 

Any advice would be greatly appreciated.

 

We bought our boat for £18,000, but the surveyor was amazed at the price and valued it at £26,000. There is no doubt that we would have to pay around £25k to get anything similar.

2011/12 I insured with haven Knox Johnston, and they would only insure for purchase price until they had seen a copy of the survey. This year I am with GJW, and they were the same, happy to insure for "value" upon sight of the survey.

 

My limited experience suggests that you will need a valuation..... Which need not be as comprehensive as a survey, so ought to be cheaper.

 

In the seagoing market, Pantaenius were happy to accept my value for insurance purposes, on the basis of "agreed value", (whatever that meant ).

[Alanji]

When I insured with Towergate we discussed how much the boat should be insured for. I said I was carrying out works and they were happy to insure for £4k more than I paid covering the works to be done. Did not ask for receipts to be sent.

 

There was also a question about whether you got a reduced price.

 

I agree the first step is surely phoning - I found them very helpful.

 

As already mentioned it may be they (any insurer) is happy to pocket the extra premium and will pay out less than insured value on a claim.

[furnessvale]

 

Pantaenius were happy to accept my value for insurance purposes, on the basis of "agreed value", (whatever that meant ).

 

Agreed value is literally that. Often used with classic cars or lorries. A proper survey will arrive at the true market value which is agreed by the insurance company. In theory, should you make a claim, you then do not have problems with the valuation.

 

I have never tested this theory.

 

George ex nb Alton retired

[MartinC]

My experience of insurance in general is that the insurance company will let you insure for whatever value you say, quite happy to pocket the increased premium.

 

Only when you come to claim will they begin to look for reasons why you over, or indeed under, insured and adjust the payout accordingly.

 

George ex nb Alton retired

 

 

Agreed value is literally that. Often used with classic cars or lorries. A proper survey will arrive at the true market value which is agreed by the insurance company. In theory, should you make a claim, you then do not have problems with the valuation.

 

I have never tested this theory.

 

George ex nb Alton retired

 

Just to avoid confusion, marine insurance, for hull and machinery, is on an agreed value basis. If your boat is a total loss you get the sum insured on the policy. The only exception is fraud, e.g. where you paid £5k for the boat but told the insurer you paid £30k and insured it for that. Most specialist marine underwriters have a feel for overvalued boats and would raise questions before agreeing to issue the policy because of the agreed value basis.

[Ex- Member]

We've just sent out enquiries with regard to insuring our 10/6 x 60 wide beam. We were insured with a company back in 2005/06 when we were on the water last. As the boat was a new shell we had just 30k cover which basically covered cost of hull and engine.

 

Insured for cruising inland waters and including cruising tidal waters for access only. Excess £150 each & every claim.

Now the boat's finished, well almost I've decided to put in a value of 80k and 10k for personal items. To my surprise we've already received a quote back from our previous insurer quoting £405.00 Bargain I think, as when we insured just the shell and engine back in 2005 it cost £230 Now reading on in the quote they mention the 2 years insurance we had with them previously and offer a NCD of £101,25 discount, making a net premium of £303.75 then premuim tax document fee total £331.98 Which I think is pretty good.

 

They can require a valuation which they probably will being a self fit out, I've a feeling though that the NCD will not apply as it was too long ago, they might be assuming the 2 years were recent, unsure! really, still I reckon £405 isn't a bad quote, is this ball park?

 

Still waiting on other quotes.

 

We've just sent out enquiries with regard to insuring our 10/6 x 60 wide beam. We were insured with a company back in 2005/06 when we were on the water last. As the boat was a new shell we had just 30k cover which basically covered cost of hull and engine.

 

Insured for cruising inland waters and including cruising tidal waters for access only. Excess £150 each & every claim.

Now the boat's finished, well almost I've decided to put in a value of 80k and 10k for personal items. To my surprise we've already received a quote back from our previous insurer quoting £405.00 Bargain I think, as when we insured just the shell and engine back in 2005 it cost £230 Now reading on in the quote they mention the 2 years insurance we had with them previously and offer a NCD of £101,25 discount, making a net premium of £303.75 then premuim tax document fee total £331.98 Which I think is pretty good.

 

They can require a valuation which they probably will being a self fit out, I've a feeling though that the NCD will not apply as it was too long ago, they might be assuming the 2 years were recent, unsure! really, still I reckon £405 isn't a bad quote, is this ball park?

 

Still waiting on other quotes and some more clarification on this quote.

Edited February 12, 2013 by Julynian

[Ex- Member]

WOW insurance company have said the NCD is applicable. So fully insured for £331.98 Haven't asked for any valuation either. I'm impressed I was budgeting at least £500

[furnessvale]

Just to avoid confusion, marine insurance, for hull and machinery, is on an agreed value basis. If your boat is a total loss you get the sum insured on the policy. The only exception is fraud, e.g. where you paid £5k for the boat but told the insurer you paid £30k and insured it for that. Most specialist marine underwriters have a feel for overvalued boats and would raise questions before agreeing to issue the policy because of the agreed value basis.

 

Thanks for that. Interesting that my insurer has often had to talk me UP in value.

 

George ex nb Alton retired