The Admiral Nelson

[scrumpylurcher]

Whether or not they would have survived the winter we will never know but having made the commitment they have with their owm money and labour they were determined to make it work. They were awaiting the owners renewing their lease, they have not stopped trading and had no intention of doing so. They recieved the news yesterday that rather than get a new lease they were out since the owwners had found a buyer. As it stands we dont know whether it will continue as a pub and if so when it will reopen. Having had quite a few convewrsations with them in the last few weeks I dont believe they had anticipated this outcome.

[Athy]

I did not mention "huge plates", I don't like being served a plateful where the food is piled high and hanging over the edges, except perhaps salad. Sensible portion for a moderate price is my ideal pub meal - we rarely eat out except at the end of a long day's boating when we are tired and say "Sod it!" when confronted with the prospect of cooking for ourselves. In fact last year I think that we only ever dined out over the three days of Cropredy Festival.

Now that you mention that the Boat House is a Marston's pub, I may drop in there next time: Pedigree is one of my favourite ales, as long as it's well kept.

[twbm]

The menu is "on the fancy side", up to restaurant quality, as I reported here. It has a separate eating area.

 

I my (none expert) opinion this is probably the way you have to go to make this location pay, perhaps with simple bar meals as well particularly at lunch time and in the summer. It is down a dead-end lane and therefore has no passing traffic, so you have to make it somewhere people will travel to, and high quality food is certainly one way of doing that.

 

Spot on. Insufficient houses around it to make it viable on local trade, and it's hidden away from passing car trade, so needs to become a 'destination' pub.

[Nightwatch]

My limited experience of pub-co pubs.

 

They find tenants who part with their well earned. The new tenants are first class at running 'their' pub and build up the business, either by good food, good staff,welcoming atmosphere,dart teams, pool teams and much more. Or a combination of all.

 

The pub co then decide to put up rent, profit share or contribution, call it want you like.

 

Good natured tenant then has to make a decision. Stand strong and battle on, (we can do this despite the pub-co) argue with pub-co till you're red in the face or just give up.

 

Pub-co business is ruining the British Pub as many have said.

 

The Red Lion in Cropredy closed ,I think last year, reopened and is still open. it was advertised with a rent of, I believe, about £800 a week.I stand to be corrected. Add onto that, tied prices for the majority of products that they sell, business rates, Tax the list goes on.

 

How on earth can a business thrive with overheads in the extreme. I, reluctantly visit pubs and end up enjoying the experience, I always try to chat to the staff about who owns what and i nearly always hear horror stories concerning pub-co's. (I'm a nosy git) My parents were long term licensees in the fifties, sixties and seventies. Their experience went from Landlord, Tenant, Manager & Steward (BL Clubs WM Clubs and the like) Not particularly in that order.

 

May I add as a footnote. My son, some may recall, is a butcher, yeah I know I do go on a bit. However they 'don't' have a catering side to the business, however they are getting more and more pubs,restaurants,residential homes (for the elderly) as customers because of the quality of product and less wastage. the likes of 3336 (3633,6636 or whatever) catering supplies are losing out in many cases. So it's not always price driven.

 

Martyn

[MtB]

It says further up the thread their lease was only for 6 months as Pubco. refused to agree to a longer one.

 

I'm shocked. Pam and thing have allowed themselves to be totally mugged in that case.

 

But on reflection, more fool them for spending all that money o the refurb with only a six month lease. What on earth did they expect to happened at the end of the lease? PubCo were bound to stiff them royally whatever the outcome, it's what they do. Even I know this as someone NOT in the business. Someone IN the business ought to be better informed that me.

 

Provided the six month lease thing is true, that is.

 

MtB

[ditchcrawler]

The Red Hart has been closed for the best part of a year now. It has rarely done well since its Danish landlord left several years ago.

And they are installing the moorings there next month

[Tuscan]

I'm shocked. Pam and thing have allowed themselves to be totally mugged in that case.

 

But on reflection, more fool them for spending all that money o the refurb with only a six month lease. What on earth did they expect to happened at the end of the lease? PubCo were bound to stiff them royally whatever the outcome, it's what they do. Even I know this as someone NOT in the business. Someone IN the business ought to be better informed that me.

 

Provided the six month lease thing is true, that is.

 

MtB

 

I'm with you Mike , sounds like they were mugged as well as maybe mugs themselves. It's a tough business but closing a pub this time of year makes no sense if you have existing licencees even if the owners change. I can't see anyone getting permission to change it into a house without a fight so hopefully it will be open again soon.

[twbm]

Umm - irrespective of lease problems, this time of year is when pubs that are on less than solid financial footings are at higher risk. No one is spending money post Christmas. Our takings are currently around 60% of the good weeks in summer.

[Boat&Bikes]

Umm - irrespective of lease problems, this time of year is when pubs that are on less than solid financial footings are at higher risk. No one is spending money post Christmas. Our takings are currently around 60% of the good weeks in summer.

 

 

I assume you plan for this?

 

Ian

[Tuscan]

I assume you plan for this?

 

Ian

 

 

 

Now I feel really virtuous not only did I enjoy my three pints of Adnams and a packet of nuts at lunch time but I did my bit to keep the pub from closing as well although SWMBO's lime and soda was 30p fantastic value !

[MtB]

Umm - irrespective of lease problems, this time of year is when pubs that are on less than solid financial footings are at higher risk. No one is spending money post Christmas. Our takings are currently around 60% of the good weeks in summer.

 

I'm staggered you say it is that high. I'd have expected about 10% given the way I see the tills humming and singing in a good pub rammed full to the gunwales in high summer.

 

On a rainy winter's evening the average pub seems to have about a dozen or so drinkers in. On a hot summer's evening, it's a hundred or three.

 

What pub do you run? I'll come and have a pint if you're inside my orbit....

 

MtB

[wannabe]

Sad to hear it's closed.

We rounded off a very wet but enjoyable holiday there 2 or 3 years back on a UCC boat (the one with the coal fire in it)

Loved the area and the pub. The food was good as was the beer

Nice setting too but have to agree with a previous statement.

Needs more than just canal custom to survive I think

[twbm]

I assume you plan for this?

 

Ian

 

We expect it, but planning for it assumes we have some control over Joe public. Bills have to be paid whether the income's there or not. Just covered the rent, building insurance, VAT, PAYE to be done by 19th, PRS and PPL (Music licenses)and business rates to follow, trade bins and forecourt rent to be settled asap, staff need paying. Against that we have no idea how many people are going to come in, or what they're going to spend. Bad weather will affect us too.

 

If the reserves are there, you can subsidise the bad months from the good ones. If the business is still building from nothing to break-even, you either put your own money in or fold. If we can get through this next quarter, we will I think succeed in the long term. If not we will be walking away from enough cash to buy about 5 well set up narrowboats.

 

Now I feel really virtuous not only did I enjoy my three pints of Adnams and a packet of nuts at lunch time but I did my bit to keep the pub from closing as well although SWMBO's lime and soda was 30p fantastic value !

 

Like Tesco says, every little helps.

[Jerra]

 

Seriously John, I do see your point, but I'm not convinced that upmarket dining is appropriate to such a pub -

 

Try telling Tom Kerridge that fine dining is not appropriate to a pub! (Admittedly I don't know the pub in question but it does show fine dining can fill a pub).

 

His has 2 mitchelin stars and you won't be able to book a table at weekends until mid August.

 

You might get in on a Monday or Tuesday lunch time.

[twbm]

I'm staggered you say it is that high. I'd have expected about 10% given the way I see the tills humming and singing in a good pub rammed full to the gunwales in high summer.

 

On a rainy winter's evening the average pub seems to have about a dozen or so drinkers in. On a hot summer's evening, it's a hundred or three.

 

What pub do you run? I'll come and have a pint if you're inside my orbit....

 

MtB

 

We're a bit of a hybrid in that the part of town we are in is a bit of a virtual 'village' and we have a core of regulars. When they go (at 8pm when the cheap beer offer ends) it's like the Marie Celeste until we pick up folk leaving the nearby restuarants. Our other saving grace is that we let the whole venue out for private parties, and are currently booked out most weekends until March. Having to leave at 7.30pm on a Saturday pisses some of our regulars off, but as I point out, that's what supports the cheap beer during the week and on Sundays. We also do the occasional free buffet by way of a thank you for their tolerance.

 

I tend to treat this site a bit like the BBC so avoid mentioning the name, however we're a family run bar on the High Street in Southampton opposite the Dolphin Hotel, most draught beers are £2.50 4pm to 8pm weekdays and all of them are on Sundays. Should you or any other any CWDF member get that far away from the canal system you will qualify as VIP customers which means you pay £2.50 all the time.

Edited January 11, 2013 by twbm

[Guest]

Try telling Tom Kerridge that fine dining is not appropriate to a pub! (Admittedly I don't know the pub in question but it does show fine dining can fill a pub).

 

His has 2 mitchelin stars and you won't be able to book a table at weekends until mid August.

 

You might get in on a Monday or Tuesday lunch time.

 

I saw him bragging the same on the same program you obviously watched....

 

Did you really believe him?

[Jerra]

I saw him bragging the same on the same program you obviously watched....

 

Did you really believe him?

 

OK perhaps exaggeration but I will bet the waiting list is long. I tried to get a table at Rick Steins once and he had a waiting list of 3+ months and not 2 mitchelin stars.

 

I am out tomorrow night and we had to book 6 weeks ago - so it is possible.

[MHS]

Use them or Lose them.

 

It's up to all of us to use canalside / country pubs. Whether you have one glass of lemonade, or six pints of beer, have a basic steak pie, or a gourmet meal, these will all help.

 

There's no point in grumbling when your local shop or pub closes, if you rarely used it.

 

We always try to support the pubs and shops when we are aboard. We see so many people arriving at their boat with a week or two supplies from Tesco. We bring the essentials, then stop at farm shops and villages along the way.

 

Ok it costs a little more, but you waste less, eat better, and support all that makes canal boating worthwhile.

 

Sorry, I will get off my soapbox.

[MtB]

Use them or Lose them.

 

You haven't read the thread at all have you?

 

The Admiral nelson is a thriving and successful business. It's not closing from lack of trade, but because the lease has expired and the owners have declined to renew it. Use it as much as you like, it's still going to close.

 

MtB

[john6767]

You haven't read the thread at all have you?

 

The Admiral nelson is a thriving and successful business. It's not closing from lack of trade, but because the lease has expired and the owners have declined to renew it. Use it as much as you like, it's still going to close.

 

MtB

 

That seems to be the particularly sad thing it this case, unlike others who have not made a go of it, the current tenants seems to be doing all the right things but have been stuffed by the owners. I guess if they really were on a 6 month lease with no guaranteed renewal, then you could say fool them for accepting that in the first place, but it does highlight that there are big issues in the way that the whole pub business works (or does not).

 

 

 

[Athy]

But what can be the reason for this non-renewal? Surely the owners wish to see a thriving business where the landlord pays his bills and orders plenty of beer from the them? What kind of company prefers no income to a steady income?

[carlt]

Ok it costs a little more, but you waste less, eat better, and support all that makes canal boating worthwhile.

Having worked in pubs and restaurants and seen their skips there is certainly as much waste as eating at home and I have yet to eat anywhere that is better than the best myself or the OH can produce.

 

This "use it or lose it" guilt trip doesn't really wash as I believe most people who comment about a pub's demise are regular visitors to such establishments.

 

I drove past one of my favourite canalside (well walking distance) pubs a couple of days ago and noted that it was boarded up and for sale with full permission to convert to a home.

 

Despite thinking that it was a shame I felt no guilt nor urge to start drinking again to gallantly save these businesses from failure.

[carlt]

But what can be the reason for this non-renewal? Surely the owners wish to see a thriving business where the landlord pays his bills and orders plenty of beer from the them? What kind of company prefers no income to a steady income?

It is getting easier to get permission to convert a pub into a home so providing a quick capital injection.

 

If the government is making noises about curbing the excesses of the Pubcos then they may be getting out while the going is good (or not too bad).

Edited January 11, 2013 by carlt

[Athy]

Ah. An earlier poster reckoned (though I don't know on what grounds) that permission would not be granted for such a change of use.

It would be an absolutely prime location for a home if permission were granted, I'd be tempted but it would be out of my price range.

[jelunga]

We're a bit of a hybrid in that the part of town we are in is a bit of a virtual 'village' and we have a core of regulars. When they go (at 8pm when the cheap beer offer ends) it's like the Marie Celeste until we pick up folk leaving the nearby restuarants. Our other saving grace is that we let the whole venue out for private parties, and are currently booked out most weekends until March. Having to leave at 7.30pm on a Saturday pisses some of our regulars off, but as I point out, that's what supports the cheap beer during the week and on Sundays. We also do the occasional free buffet by way of a thank you for their tolerance.

 

I tend to treat this site a bit like the BBC so avoid mentioning the name, however we're a family run bar on the High Street in Southampton opposite the Dolphin Hotel, most draught beers are £2.50 4pm to 8pm weekdays and all of them are on Sundays. Should you or any other any CWDF member get that far away from the canal system you will qualify as VIP customers which means you pay £2.50 all the time.

So as an SS. Shieldhall Life Member, and a CWDF member I suppose it is free?

Edited January 11, 2013 by jelunga