Anyone know anything about these guys?

[Lady Muck]

As a matter of fact, & with repect Chris, I expect there are a few of the critics who would've considered using Nathan's company & it very much IS the business of every canal user. Irrespective of whether or not there is an intention to use the services on offer, every one of us has the right to voice concerns & opinions about a company that doesn't "seem right" to them, no matter whether its justified or not. What would you think if Nathan's company turned out to be exactly as feared & people got themselves financially burned? By your logic, unless you're directly involved in something, you're not entitled to an opinion on it, if you're not interested in politics so you can't comment on it then. Don't you see how ridiculous that perception really is?

 

Nathan had the Cojones to come on here to defend himself & his company in a considered, courteous manner & reacted positively to the comments. He could have simply ignored the jibes or made threatening noises towards his detractors, but he didn't & his behaviour has rightly been praised, not just by me either.

Yes I agree. Putting my personal opinions and fears aside, it's something I'm interested in when I've got my London Boaters hat on. Its a hot topic. Boaters do want to know how they can rent or if its possible to rent a boat out. We do need to know if everything is legit before we go on to recommend a firm.

[cotswoldsman]

You miss the point of my comment completely so I'll spell it out for you. It was not to advise the guy on how to run his business affairs. It was simply to ask how can anyone know, three quarters of the way through their first year of trading, that they are going to be paying corporation tax 12 months from now? He may well have a disastrous fourth quarter for a variety of reasons beyond his immediate control, which may wipe out all the profits of the first three quarters.

 

Anyone who has been involved in 'business' over the past few decades shouldn't need a very good accountant to tell them to to take dividends instead of (or as well as a small) salary. However, he will probably need a good accountant to tell him how much he can claim in first year capital allowances etc or how much he can or should put into an executive pension scheme to protect his own and his family's income in the distant future.

 

However, in this instance his dad says he's perfectly happy to pay so who are we to disabuse him of that satisfaction?

 

Did not mean my son's business to become a big discussion point was trying to point out that when someone registers a company it actually tells you nothing. In my sons case he has a fixed contract from one of the UK's largest retailers so he does know what his fourth quarter will be as he also knows what next years full results will be. The big difference is by next year he will have filed his accounts.

 

In many (most!) businesses you can easily 'see' your fourth quarter at the end of the third, especially if you do contract work or have a mature stable client base. There is absolutely nothing mystical about being able to predict your eventual corporation tax liability midway through a year.

 

Like I said, enthusiastic man-in-the-pub misinformation.

 

Should have readon before I posted. Hammer on nail I think they call it

[Phil Ambrose]

Exercise caution, when I had my last boat up for sale on Apollo Duck, somebody lifted the whole add and changed my contact details for their own and then put it up for rent. I only found out when a RAF chap contacted me having been in the process of renting it and then saw the for sale advert on Apollo and smelt a rat.

 

Phil

[cotswoldsman]

Unless the business is burned down,or the workers strike,or a customer doesnt/cant pay,or the main money earner has an accident etc etc etc...

 

Wow talk about gloom and doom. As it happens he works in the head office of his client but also works from home. He does do a bit of extra work from home for another company but this is only treated as a small extra.

[ditchcrawler]

Yes I agree. Putting my personal opinions and fears aside, it's something I'm interested in when I've got my London Boaters hat on. Its a hot topic. Boaters do want to know how they can rent or if its possible to rent a boat out. We do need to know if everything is legit before we go on to recommend a firm.

It probably comes up on here every 3 months or so that someone is looking for a long term hire, so yes there is a market for it but there has been so many tails of wronguns in the past that people are very weary when they hear about anther company setting up.

[alan_fincher]

This will not be a popular post, I know, but.......

 

I find it distinctly odd that at least some people who are regularly prepared to speak out heavily against some boaters that do not have a home mooring, largely because they say they are ignoring laws or regulations, now seem prepared to wish this venture every success - despite the fact that there seems to be every indication that it is also ignoring rules and regulations, and frankly ones that there is very much less debate needed around the actual meanings and intentions.

 

I don't for a minute think those behind this company are out to deceive, but I certainly think they are demonstrating themselves as not likely to have been sufficiently clued up when they started such a venture.

 

At the point it is established these boats actually are licenced for hire, and hold safety certificates specific to hire use, I will issue an unreserved apology, but it doesn't sound to me like I am going to need to as things stand right now.

 

I don't for a moment dispute that there is a market for the type of service being offered, but however much there is a need, it should only happen if no rules or regulations are being broken, IMO.

[Athy]

people are very weary when they hear about anther company setting up.

Weary or wary?

Maybe both!

[ditchcrawler]

Weary or wary?

Maybe both!

Maybe

 

This will not be a popular post, I know, but.......

 

I find it distinctly odd that at least some people who are regularly prepared to speak out heavily against some boaters that do not have a home mooring, largely because they say they are ignoring laws or regulations, now seem prepared to wish this venture every success - despite the fact that there seems to be every indication that it is also ignoring rules and regulations, and frankly ones that there is very much less debate needed around the actual meanings and intentions.

 

I don't for a minute think those behind this company are out to deceive, but I certainly think they are demonstrating themselves as not likely to have been sufficiently clued up when they started such a venture.

 

At the point it is established these boats actually are licenced for hire, and hold safety certificates specific to hire use, I will issue an unreserved apology, but it doesn't sound to me like I am going to need to as things stand right now.

 

I don't for a moment dispute that there is a market for the type of service being offered, but however much there is a need, it should only happen if no rules or regulations are being broken, IMO.

That bottom line sums it up

[Tiger 1057]

We want to give people young or old the opportunity to live in London at an affordable rate. Lets face it the rental market in London is expensive and vicious!

 

I apologise if I have missed it elsewhere but in reality this appears to be about providing cheaper rental accommodation in London rather than an opportunity to try canal life! Hence the reference to tenancy agreements etc.

 

Now if I could go outside the cesspit that is the M25 sign me up lol (no offence intended to those within the M25 as I lived there for 25 years myself)

[Tuscan]

This will not be a popular post, I know, but.......

 

I find it distinctly odd that at least some people who are regularly prepared to speak out heavily against some boaters that do not have a home mooring, largely because they say they are ignoring laws or regulations, now seem prepared to wish this venture every success - despite the fact that there seems to be every indication that it is also ignoring rules and regulations, and frankly ones that there is very much less debate needed around the actual meanings and intentions.

 

I don't for a minute think those behind this company are out to deceive, but I certainly think they are demonstrating themselves as not likely to have been sufficiently clued up when they started such a venture.

 

At the point it is established these boats actually are licenced for hire, and hold safety certificates specific to hire use, I will issue an unreserved apology, but it doesn't sound to me like I am going to need to as things stand right now.

 

I don't for a moment dispute that there is a market for the type of service being offered, but however much there is a need, it should only happen if no rules or regulations are being broken, IMO.

 

 

 

My understanding is that they are in active discussions with CRT to identify and obtain the correct license. I see nothing in the owners email that they intend to operate the boats illegally or n contravention of any CRT regulations. I think the positive attitude in the owners post might show some naevity but not dishonesty. Sometimes it's good to encourage new ventures , CRT included.

[Jerra]

are you getting the picture now?

 

As I let holiday accomodation albeit land based I am aware of the ins and outs of the business (basically I realise waterbased will be different).

 

However surely some of the things you mention won't apply to a long term rent. Waste disposal for example the client won't surely be returning their waste to the base, surely it will be domestic waste just as it would be if a landbased property was let lng term.

[Guest]

As I let holiday accomodation albeit land based I am aware of the ins and outs of the business (basically I realise waterbased will be different).

 

However surely some of the things you mention won't apply to a long term rent. Waste disposal for example the client won't surely be returning their waste to the base, surely it will be domestic waste just as it would be if a landbased property was let lng term.

 

The CRT licence conditions for hiring do not differentiate between a boat that is hired for a few days or a few months. Richard is correct.

 

Some people just want to push these 'minor details' under the carpet sometimes but it remains an obstacle to those that want to fill this gap in the market and do it correctly and properly.

[dor]

Just seen this on their website: "Grand Union Narrowboat Lettings (GUNL) offers people the chance to try out this lifestyle for real. Many of our previous customers have been on a boating holiday and simply got hooked on this lifestyle."

 

Now I thought this was a new business venture. So how come there are "Many of our previous customers"? Not trying to criticise - just wondering...

 

[junior]

I stumbled across this website (and subsequentley seem to have opened a can of worms) originally as i have been taking an interest in the possibility of rental for a few months prior to buying.

 

I knew the website was new as it hadn't been there a few days ago. I decided against making an enquiry, not based upon the legalities of it, but on the fact the whole thing looked a bit messy. Either the boats are a mess, or the photographer who took the images of them needs to be sacked. One photo of one of the boats has a black bag full of rubish in it, another has dirty crockery on the draining board etc.

 

The lack of attention to detail on simple things like this makes me worry about what their attention to detail may be when it comes to the legalities of long term boat rental.

[alan_fincher]

My understanding is that they are in active discussions with CRT to identify and obtain the correct license. I see nothing in the owners email that they intend to operate the boats illegally or n contravention of any CRT regulations.

Except that the web-site shows one of the boats as "let", so, assuming that bit is correct, it may already be being operated "illegally". The issue is about more than licencing, of course - all the requirements need to be met, or the boats should not be being let out.

 

I don't think their apparent naivety is really an adequate reason for people not to raise concerns.

Edited December 10, 2012 by alan_fincher

[RLWP]

As I let holiday accomodation albeit land based I am aware of the ins and outs of the business (basically I realise waterbased will be different).

 

However surely some of the things you mention won't apply to a long term rent. Waste disposal for example the client won't surely be returning their waste to the base, surely it will be domestic waste just as it would be if a landbased property was let lng term.

 

As Martin has pointed out, it's what you need to do to satisfy CaRT to get the license. You may not agree with it, or consider it unnecessary (because this business will be avoiding the costs by getting the users to use CaRT's facilities that you pay for), it is still what is required

 

Richard

[Guest]

My understanding is that they are in active discussions with CRT to identify and obtain the correct license. I see nothing in the owners email that they intend to operate the boats illegally or n contravention of any CRT regulations. I think the positive attitude in the owners post might show some naevity but not dishonesty. Sometimes it's good to encourage new ventures , CRT included.

 

The problem however is that the costs of doing this correctly will skew their business model to such a degree that they will be unlikely to continue - and what happens then to the tenants on the boat they have already let?

 

I do agree though CRT do need to make some provision for long term boat letting. It seems silly it's tied up in so much red tape.

[RLWP]

<snip>

 

I do agree though CRT do need to make some provision for long term boat letting. It seems silly it's tied up in so much red tape.

 

I'm not sure how that would work Martin. How do you differentiate a hire boat from a long term rental? And if it is advantageous, wouldn't all hire boat companies go for a business model of one-week-rentals, thereby avoiding costs

 

Richard

[Paul C]

How do you differentiate a hire boat from a long term rental?

 

Length of term?

[RLWP]

Length of term?

 

What, like the accuracy of the continuous cruising distance?

 

Richard

[Guest]

I'm not sure how that would work Martin. How do you differentiate a hire boat from a long term rental? And if it is advantageous, wouldn't all hire boat companies go for a business model of one-week-rentals, thereby avoiding costs

 

Richard

 

Minimum hire term to the same person by formal agreement say 2-3 months exempts the landlord/hire co. from some of the stipulations of the current hire operators licence, like parking and rubbish disposal. Handover requirements stay, and could be easier to operate given the time of the hire/rent.

 

It would need a different licence category from CRT - BSC requirements could not change though, land borne landlords need to adhere to more stringent requirements than property owners so water borne need to do the same or more.

[Paul C]

What, like the accuracy of the continuous cruising distance?

 

Richard

 

Eh?

[Guest]

What, like the accuracy of the continuous cruising distance?

 

Richard

 

You don't currently have to sign a formal agreement of formal CCD.

 

You could be asked to sign up to a minimum term of hire/rental though....

[Tuscan]

Except that the web-site shows one of the boats as "let", so, assuming that bit is correct, it may already be being operated "illegally". The issue is about more than licencing, of course - all the requirements need to be met, or the boats should not be being let out.

 

I don't think their apparent naivety is really an adequate reason for people not to raise concerns.

 

 

Yes I take your point regarding the Let boat. I assume that the discussions with CRT include this but you are right. They should ensure that everything is in place before taking customers money. It may be sensible if they suspend the website until the directors are satisfied the business model meets CRT's requirements, whether the economies work is a decision for the directors and not for us.

[RLWP]

Eh?

 

The CC requirements have a period of time implied in them. Unfortunately, there is no legal support for such a period of time, so it is ambiguous. Other ambiguous terms are short, long and perhaps rent and hire

 

Richard