"run away"

[RLWP]

Fairy nuff - I wonder how long one runs with a blocked intake though?

 

 

Seconds

 

Richard

[Guest]

ed - Richard has answered.

 

Will you send me Lilly's if you are wrong...

Edited October 16, 2012 by The Dog House

[ditchcrawler]

Ignore the advice of a seasoned engineer... At least, Martin, with your Jap block you're unlikely to be troubled!

 

I watched a Vetus run for 20 minutes on the fuel in the filters a few years back, plenty of time for a runaway to go seriously tits up

When I first launched Harnser, things went faster than intended and I was on the boat as it went bows first down the slip way. I started the engine before they started the launch and then moved the boat round to the landing stage, stopped the engine and then found I had forgotten to turn the main diesel tap on. So yes it can run for a bit.

 

I have sometimes contemplated installing some sort of rubber backed hard disc mounted between the air filter and inlet which could be released with an emergency pull cord allowing the disc to hinge down on the air intake. An effective stop mechanism just in case the worst happens.

You want one of these

[Guest]

Ignore the advice of a seasoned engineer... At least, Martin, with your Jap block you're unlikely to be troubled!

 

I watched a Vetus run for 20 minutes on the fuel in the filters a few years back, plenty of time for a runaway to go seriously tits up

 

Ignoring nothing -

 

I'm use in my former profession to people not just blindly accepting the views, advice and opinions I gave,

 

I assume people in other professions are just as comfortable with a little bit of a challenge now and then.

Edited October 16, 2012 by The Dog House

[Tiggers]

I had this happen with a Ford Focus. Going down the dual carriage way it started pouring out acrid smoke and revving really high. I pulled over, took the keys out a ran! The scary thing is it kept going as the turbo broke and was feeding oil into the engine. In hindsight the sensible thing to have done would've been to stall the engine, obviously not so easy with a boat....

[lynalldisocvery]

Really takes some stopping, my old land rover series 2 broke a hub on front axle and half shaft on the rear axle, so couldnt stall it, blocked up air intake still ran, cut fuel line still ran, did both together still ran, in the end cracked injectors, so how you would stop an engine running way above its max rpm on its own oil i havent a clue.

 

 

Lynall

[Guest]

Really takes some stopping, my old land rover series 2 broke a hub on front axle and half shaft on the rear axle, so couldnt stall it, blocked up air intake still ran, cut fuel line still ran, did both together still ran, in the end cracked injectors, so how you would stop an engine running way above its max rpm on its own oil i havent a clue.

 

 

Lynall

 

Ah...

[ditch paddler]

Block the air filter intake would be better.

Wont stop the engine if its running on oil, only way to stop is block the exhaust.

[nb Innisfree]

Really takes some stopping, my old land rover series 2 broke a hub on front axle and half shaft on the rear axle, so couldnt stall it, blocked up air intake still ran, cut fuel line still ran, did both together still ran, in the end cracked injectors, so how you would stop an engine running way above its max rpm on its own oil i havent a clue.

 

 

Lynall

 

It must have been drawing air in from somewhere, maybe air intake not totally blocked and/or air drawn in with oil from the crankcase. Only way is to flood both with inert gas, or squirt water in but that will hydraulicly lock and wreck the engine.

[Timleech]

Wont stop the engine if its running on oil, only way to stop is block the exhaust.

 

It needs air as well as oil.

 

Tim

[dmr]

I have never experienced this myself but people I used to work with certainly have.

In addition to running on the lube oil, fuel spray from fractured lines sucking into the air intake is another cause.

When our old JD3 got to drinking a litre of engine oil every 20 hours I thought it was time to sort it out Before we had a run-away.

 

Consensus appears to be:

If you are very brave: a wet towel over the air intake

Everybody else: Run

 

..........Dave

[churchward]

This can happen when a diesel engine takes in fuel on an unregulated basis, causes can be various,

 

Diesel engines normally can only be stopped when you stop the fuel supply - hence why boats often have a 'stop' button, turning the ignition key to off does not stop the supply of fuel and your engine will continue to run.

 

Turning the fuel tap off (if a boat has one) will stop the engine.

If the engine is in fact consuming its own sump oil as fuel (it can happen) then turning of the normal diesel supply won't stop it in any quick time. Also as Alan said I think above fuel in the filters can last longer than you might hope. Still worth turning the normalsupply off of course.

 

A C02 extinguisher is a good bet blow down the air intake or block the intake off. If none of that works or is taking too long then get away and wait.

[Arthur Brown]

This used to be a problem on some rail locos, the only answer to an engine running away on it's own lube oil is to block the air inlet and maybe add a big CO2 dump into the manifold. Apparently some rail locos were fitted with emergency stop systems that did just this -inlet manifold closed and the engine side purged with CO2 and LOTS of it.

[Graham Davis]

Wont stop the engine if its running on oil, only way to stop is block the exhaust.

 

No, you need to stop ait getting in, so you block the air intake.

(This has been said several times already!!)

If you tried to block the exhaust all it does is "explode" the weakest point along it.

 

Deltic's were fitted with CO2 bottles, I believe.

Edited October 16, 2012 by Graham Davis

[gazza]

<br />When I first launched Harnser, things went faster than intended and I was on the boat as it went bows first down the slip way. I started the engine before they started the launch and then moved the boat round to the landing stage, stopped the engine and then found I had forgotten to turn the main diesel tap on. So yes it can run for a bit.<br /><br /><br />You want one of <a href='http://www.agriemach.com/c257/chalwyn-valves/p1468-chalwyn-valves.html' class='bbc_url' title='External link' rel='nofollow external'>these</a><br />

<br /><br /><br />

 

we have to have chalwyn valves fitted to our diesel gen sets, we are on a big shut down project at esso fawley, no kit is allowed on site unless equiped with a chalwyn valve. they are easily adjustable to cut out at any given rpm. quite a simple bit of kit that is very effective at shutting an engine down. once the vacuum in the manifold create buy the valve shutting decays, the valve rests its self.

[ditchcrawler]

<br /><br /><br />

 

we have to have chalwyn valves fitted to our diesel gen sets, we are on a big shut down project at esso fawley, no kit is allowed on site unless equiped with a chalwyn valve. they are easily adjustable to cut out at any given rpm. quite a simple bit of kit that is very effective at shutting an engine down. once the vacuum in the manifold create buy the valve shutting decays, the valve rests its self.

Manual reset are better, the engine can hunt up and down with self resets.

[gazza]

we use them on 3.152 and the 1000 series electropak perkins, no problems with hunting. they can work very hard under varying loads. used to power steam generators and shell boilers.

[Guest]

I've seen it on diesel engines where the oil level is too high. The lubricating oil gets past the oil control rings and the engine burns it as fuel. The only way to stop them is either stall them or remove the air supply otherwise they run to destruction.

Exactly what happened to my one time Yanmar. CO2 fire extinguisher up the air intake soon stops 'em.

 

It needs air as well as oil.

 

Tim

Agreed

[Cheshire cat]

Exactly what happened to my one time Yanmar. CO2 fire extinguisher up the air intake soon stops 'em.

 

 

Agreed

I had a fault on my engine where turning the key didn't stop the engine. It was running at tickover. I stuck my palm over the air intake. The engine stopped. It was a bit uncomfortable but not really painful; with a runaway engine something solid that would still create a good seal would be a better idea.

[lynalldisocvery]

It must have been drawing air in from somewhere, maybe air intake not totally blocked and/or air drawn in with oil from the crankcase. Only way is to flood both with inert gas, or squirt water in but that will hydraulicly lock and wreck the engine.

 

 

Yes we could both hear it sucking the air, we reckon up past the rings, well that what we reckoned it was as it couldnt get air from any where else as we had the inlet pipe blocked, it had sucked itself flat.

Co2 is a good idea and i carry one in all my motors.

 

 

Lynall

[rallyfan]

Wont stop the engine if its running on oil, only way to stop is block the exhaust.

Sorry to contradict, by in my case, caused by excess sump oil, a rag up the air intake did stop it in seconds.

[mayalld]

Interesting topic.

 

I actually had the start of a runaway on the car last weekend (Freelander).

 

Blown oil seal on the turbo, so self feeding on engine oil.

 

Fortunately, I spotted it accelerating away before it red lined, and managed to stall it, because the ducted air intake on a freelander would be a pig to block or to get CO2 into.

 

Anybody want to buy a 2002 Freelander with knackered turbo?

[luctor et emergo]

So, now that we had two pages teling us that blocking the air intake is the way to go (and almost everybody has accepted this as selfevident... ), how much damage would a squirt of co2 down the inlet do?

[mayalld]

So, now that we had two pages teling us that blocking the air intake is the way to go (and almost everybody has accepted this as selfevident... ), how much damage would a squirt of co2 down the inlet do?

 

Provided it wasn't liquid CO2, none whatsoever.

[Timleech]

Provided it wasn't liquid CO2, none whatsoever.

 

Isn't that an impossibility?

 

Tim